Brace Ban

[PaulF]

KLB, my father was an air traffic controller in 1981.

Please enlighten me on how little control a president has over federal employees.

 

[PaulF]

What? It's clear that the regulars in his own administration don't really like Trump, and some have even worked to help oust him. And I'm surprised that you're asking me to prove the negative. You made the statement. It's up to you to prove the positive. Also, about the support of overreach, it is not the case that lack of stopping it is evidence of tacit support. You show me that Trump was aware and approves. The burden is on you, not me.

I just want to be sure I understand you.

Are you saying that Trump is not responsible - by default - for the actions of the Trump administration?

If I'm reading that correctly, I strongly disagree.

 

[jamil]

I just want to be sure I understand you.

Are you saying that Trump is not responsible - by default - for the actions of the Trump administration?

If I'm reading that correctly, I strongly disagree.

That’s an oversimplification of what I’m saying, which you eagerly disagree with. I disagree with your oversimplification too. So now maybe address my actual points.

 

[johny5]

I just want to be sure I understand you.

Are you saying that Trump is not responsible - by default - for the actions of the Trump administration?

If I'm reading that correctly, I strongly disagree.

Agreeing with Jamil:

Reductio ad absurdum is also known as "reducing to an absurdity." It involves characterizing an opposing argument in such a way that it seems to be ridiculous, or the consequences of the position seem ridiculous.

 

[PaulF]

That’s an oversimplification of what I’m saying, which you eagerly disagree with. I disagree with your oversimplification too. So now maybe address my actual points.

I guess I don't understand your points, then.

The Trump administration has taken action against pistol braces. Trump is responsible for the actions of his administration. Trump has taken no action to suggest he is opposed to the actions taken by his administration in regards to pistol braces.

It is not logical to suggest that the president doesn't support the actions of his own administration. If you are making that argument, please support it with some type of evidence.

 

[KLB]

KLB, my father was an air traffic controller in 1981.

Please enlighten me on how little control a president has over federal employees.

The ones who went on strike? They gave him means to do so.

A regular GS employee is VERY hard to get rid of.

 

[johny5]

The ones who went on strike? They gave him means to do so.

A regular GS employee is VERY hard to get rid of.

Absolutely right!

AND, as much as it may annoy some folks on here, the urgency of dealing with a shutdown of the commercial airline industry is significantly higher for a President than an action taken by the ATF that likely has a direct impact on less than 1% of the population.

 

[jamil]

I guess I don't understand your points, then.

The Trump administration has taken action against pistol braces. Trump is responsible for the actions of his administration. Trump has taken no action to suggest he is opposed to the actions taken by his administration in regards to pistol braces.

It is not logical to suggest that the president doesn't support the actions of his own administration. If you are making that argument, please support it with some type of evidence.

Trump is responsible for his administration in that the buck stops with him. That does not mean that he supports or intends every jot and tittle generated by his administration. But you're inferring that he has a personal anti-gun stance, based on the outcome, and that's simply not supported. I think you have some animus against Trump, and you know, fair enough. He's not the most unifying president. But I think that animus makes you quite eager to find reasons to assign intents that aren't evident. Is Trump anti-gun? No. I don't think so. Is Trump a Fudd? Yeah, I kinda think he is. Did Trump direct the ATF to **** with the brace issue? I don't see any direct evidence that he has.

 

[JettaKnight]

KLB, my father was an air traffic controller in 1981.

Please enlighten me on how little control a president has over federal employees.

You too?


My family headed up to Kalamazoo during the strike to fill in their ATC shortage.

 

[PaulF]

I appreciate the clarification. I was not, in fact, following you.

Trump is responsible for his administration in that the buck stops with him. That does not mean that he supports or intends every jot and tittle generated by his administration. But you're inferring that he has a personal anti-gun stance, based on the outcome, and that's simply not supported. I think you have some animus against Trump, and you know, fair enough. He's not the most unifying president. But I think that animus makes you quite eager to find reasons to assign intents that aren't evident. Is Trump anti-gun? No. I don't think so. Is Trump a Fudd? Yeah, I kinda think he is. Did Trump direct the ATF to **** with the brace issue? I don't see any direct evidence that he has.

 

[Ggreen]

Well none of the last letter from the atf seems to have stuck. Q's lawyers seem to be tearing them down. So now the atf revised how lop is measured...

 

[Ingomike]

It's Trump's administration. These are Trump's employees operating under the supervision of Trump...literally EVERYTHING they do is an extension of Trump's authority.

If Trump didn't want this action he could stop it in an instant...but he chooses not to. Do you really think the guy who ordered the bumpstock ban supports your right to own a pistol brace?

What evidence do you have to support that view?

Keep posting this crap so we know just how much you do not know. Heck, Trump could not even remove a guy openly against him, in the White House for several months. Look up the definition of civil service employees. Even Obama wishes he had the power you describe...

 

[Ingomike]

KLB, my father was an air traffic controller in 1981.

Please enlighten me on how little control a president has over federal employees.

How do you compare negotiations on a union contract to control of a bureaucratic agency that the President only gets to appoint the head? The employees in the swamp just wait out a president they don't agree with while trying to damage him if they can. That is exactly what is going on here...

 

[Ingomike]

I guess I don't understand your points, then.

The Trump administration has taken action against pistol braces. Trump is responsible for the actions of his administration. Trump has taken no action to suggest he is opposed to the actions taken by his administration in regards to pistol braces.

It is not logical to suggest that the president doesn't support the actions of his own administration. If you are making that argument, please support it with some type of evidence.

Hey if if you want it this way I can agree, now let's start by arresting Obama for his IRS politically targeting conservative groups if that is the standard...

 

[churchmouse]

The ones who went on strike? They gave him means to do so.

A regular GS employee is VERY hard to get rid of.

Yes they did. I know 3 people that got started in this career because those people walked out of a non-walk out job. 1 was a lifelong friend and is retired from ATC because they never walked out. Settled in the right way. Say what you will I was 31 years old and remember it very well.

They put the national security at risk. Shame on them.

 

[churchmouse]

OK. Lets begin with..............

 

[Cameramonkey]

Keep posting this crap so we know just how much you do not know. Heck, Trump could not even remove a guy openly against him, in the White House for several months. Look up the definition of civil service employees. Even Obama wishes he had the power you describe...

The unions are strong. I listened to a podcast (This American Life?) a while back about a school building in NYC(I think) that is staffed with nothing but teachers they WANT to fire, but cannot due to union rules. No kids are in the building, just teachers showing up to sit at a desk and do whatever they want for 8 hours a day and get paid for doing nothing. Crazy.

 

[churchmouse]

Keep posting this crap so we know just how much you do not know. Heck, Trump could not even remove a guy openly against him, in the White House for several months. Look up the definition of civil service employees. Even Obama wishes he had the power you describe...

Brother you are beating a drum he will not hear. The 3rd stage "TDS" is strong with this one. I will just never understand it. Seriously.

 

[Ingomike]

The unions are strong. I listened to a podcast (This American Life?) a while back about a school building in NYC(I think) that is staffed with nothing but teachers they WANT to fire, but cannot due to union rules. No kids are in the building, just teachers showing up to sit at a desk and do whatever they want for 8 hours a day and get paid for doing nothing. Crazy.

I have read about that school before, it is crazy. I do love it that our friends in private unions are bucking the the union administration and voting for Trump because they see him trying to get jobs back in this country...

 

[JettaKnight]

The unions are strong. I listened to a podcast (This American Life?) a while back about a school building in NYC(I think) that is staffed with nothing but teachers they WANT to fire, but cannot due to union rules. No kids are in the building, just teachers showing up to sit at a desk and do whatever they want for 8 hours a day and get paid for doing nothing. Crazy.

That's a great episode of TAL!