Brace Ban

[OneBadV8]

Where are you in this?!?! He's YOUR guy!

If the Obama administration had done this people on this site would be in the streets, on twitter, on the phone with their reps...but, you know, it's God-King Trump, so it must be justified. Somehow.

Come on Paul... You know if it were Obama people would just complain a lot more often and TALK about being in the streets, etc. Most people just like to **** and moan a lot

But I agree, the volume would definitely be turned way up.

 

[PaulF]

For the sake of our sanity to think this man is not in the fight of his life right now......this is not on his radar.
And if it is and no actions are taken shame on him.

How many days until the election? Arguably the most important election in our lifetimes... Do we think President Trump may have some more pressing things to worry about right now? Lets try to keep the faith a little and give him a chance. Otherwise your other option doesn't look to good.



Edit: CM beat me to it as I was typing.

Yeah, you guys are probably right...the guy who spends six hours a day watching television can't find the time to tweet one sentence in support of his own voters' rights.

 

[flatlander]

Biden sure does have plenty to say about our 2A RIGHTS from his basement though

Bob

 

[churchmouse]

Yeah, you guys are probably right...the guy who spends six hours a day watching television can't find the time to tweet one sentence in support of his own voters' rights.

Come on Paul.......your TDS is showing.

No knock as we all have our way of looking at the world.

 

[Ggreen]

This is mainstream front page news on all gun lobby outlets. That makes up a big portion of the r core. He would have to have his eyes closed to not see this. Republicans have become complacent and arrogant thinking they just get the gun vote. I believe it was trump himself that said when you're a republican they just let you do it, when he was talking about gun control.

 

[churchmouse]

This is mainstream front page news on all gun lobby outlets. That makes up a big portion of the r core. He would have to have his eyes closed to not see this. Republicans have become complacent and arrogant thinking they just get the gun vote. I believe it was trump himself that said when you're a republican they just let you do it, when he was talking about gun control.

I have only seen this mentioned in here and on a very few referenced links. But I do not spend any time out there looking. It is not mainstream news for crap sake. It is not mainstream. Not arguing your point as it is solid. But the push to Barr from us has got to make someone look. Does he have the political capital to spend on this. He may want to re-assess if he does.

 

[KLB]

Trump could end this with a tweet...literally ten seconds of effort.

He is currently showing you exactly what he thinks of your rights.

The Trump administration IS behind this.

You know full well that is just hyperbole. The bureaucracy is not moved so easily.

 

[Ggreen]

I have only seen this mentioned in here and on a very few referenced links. But I do not spend any time out there looking. It is not mainstream news for crap sake. It is not mainstream. Not arguing your point as it is solid. But the push to Barr from us has got to make someone look. Does he have the political capital to spend on this. He may want to re-assess if he does.

It's a top trending topic across social media platforms. Social media > cable media when it comes to news. More than 62% of adults get their news from social media feeds than traditional outlets. Trending = mainstream

 

[jamil]

Trump could end this with a tweet...literally ten seconds of effort.

He is currently showing you exactly what he thinks of your rights.

The Trump administration IS behind this.

This is a fact not in evidence. Show me a memorandum. A transcript of Trump talking about it. Some kind of indication that he's actively pursuing that. Something. It sounds like you're trying to prove a cause from an outcome, saying that because the outcome is what it is, Trump had to have done it. No other facts are required. Your intuition is sufficient to believe that Trump is behind it.

How much of your beliefs about Trump are like that? Is he a white nationalist? Is he even a racist? Is he a totalitarian? Is he a poopy doo-doo head? Is our democracy actually any more under jeopardy from Trump's actions than from Democrats' actions? Is Trump behind this? Maybe he is. He could be. But you believe it, why?

 

[jamil]

Where are you in this?!?! He's YOUR guy!

If the Obama administration had done this people on this site would be in the streets, on twitter, on the phone with their reps...but, you know, it's God-King Trump, so it must be justified. Somehow.

Wait. This? What THIS did Trump do? You're acting as if you've already proven that he's even behind it? Maybe he is. But at this point, as I said above, this is just a belief.

 

[Ggreen]

This is a fact not in evidence. Show me a memorandum. A transcript of Trump talking about it. Some kind of indication that he's actively pursuing that. Something. It sounds like you're trying to prove a cause from an outcome, saying that because the outcome is what it is, Trump had to have done it. No other facts are required. Your intuition is sufficient to believe that Trump is behind it.

How much of your beliefs about Trump are like that? Is he a white nationalist? Is he even a racist? Is he a totalitarian? Is he a poopy doo-doo head? Is our democracy actually any more under jeopardy from Trump's actions than from Democrats' actions? Is Trump behind this? Maybe he is. He could be. But you believe it, why?

This mainly. The heads of the atf have used the precedent to impart their own agendas over the rule of law without any oversight or procedure. A bump ban should have gone through congress, but his pen and phone politics continued to lead us down a path we will be fighting for generations. Removing power from the people by removing power from people who are elected by the people. He muted the entire country in one simple letter.

 

[jamil]

This mainly. The heads of the atf have used the precedent to impart their own agendas over the rule of law without any oversight or procedure. A bump ban should have gone through congress, but his pen and phone politics continued to lead us down a path we will be fighting for generations. Removing power from the people by removing power from people who are elected by the people. He muted the entire country in one simple letter.

They were directed by Trump to make Bump-fire stocks illegal. That much is true. That was an egregious breach of power that the checks and balances aren't correcting, yet, and may not correct, because the people who provide those checks and balances largely agree with the outcome. But. That does not support the statement Paul made about the SBR/brace issue.

 

[KG1]

I find it extremely hard to believe that Trump was behind this given the timing. My personal belief alligns with Alex Bosco that there are those within the ATF that want to create a rift between gun owners right now and it appears to me by the discussion in this thread that they are succeeding.

 

[Ggreen]

I find it extremely hard to believe that Trump was behind this given the timing. My personal belief alligns with Alex Bosco that there are those within the ATF that want to create a rift between gun owners right now and it appears to me by the discussion in this thread that they are succeeding.

This rift was set a long time ago. "Trump is not pro gun" morale patches and memes go back to the bumpstock ban, and the abandonment of all the gun promises he made in 2016. He gave the agency the power to do what they are doing. Acknowledge, correct, and move on. Pretending ignorance is not working. He needed to step up a year ago

 

[PaulF]

This is a fact not in evidence. Show me a memorandum. A transcript of Trump talking about it. Some kind of indication that he's actively pursuing that. Something. It sounds like you're trying to prove a cause from an outcome, saying that because the outcome is what it is, Trump had to have done it. No other facts are required. Your intuition is sufficient to believe that Trump is behind it.

How much of your beliefs about Trump are like that? Is he a white nationalist? Is he even a racist? Is he a totalitarian? Is he a poopy doo-doo head? Is our democracy actually any more under jeopardy from Trump's actions than from Democrats' actions? Is Trump behind this? Maybe he is. He could be. But you believe it, why?

It's Trump's administration. These are Trump's employees operating under the supervision of Trump...literally EVERYTHING they do is an extension of Trump's authority.

If Trump didn't want this action he could stop it in an instant...but he chooses not to. Do you really think the guy who ordered the bumpstock ban supports your right to own a pistol brace?

What evidence do you have to support that view?

 

[jamil]

It's Trump's administration. These are Trump's employees operating under the supervision of Trump...literally EVERYTHING they do is an extension of Trump's authority.

If Trump didn't want this action he could stop it in an instant...but he chooses not to. Do you really think the guy who ordered the bumpstock ban supports your right to own a pistol brace?

What evidence do you have to support that view?

That's not a logical argument. The one doesn't conclude with the other. Lot's of stuff gets done by regulatory agencies that don't have direct involvement or even knowledge of the president. I do think the idea that the ATF may be emboldened to do this to gun owners may be based on Trump's memo directing the redefinition of "machine gun". That is plausible. But that it demonstrates an adversarial attitude towards guns by Trump is a stretch. The circumstances around the bump stock ban imply a different cause than this does. My thoughts about Trump in terms of gun control, is that Trump is a bit of a Fudd. He's not a gun guy. He's not very knowledgeable about the issues, and the different arguments. But that does not mean that he is directing this. Again, your line of thought seems more to be based more on orange man bad than on the facts. The only fact you have is that the ATF is doing this. You don't have direct evidence of anything else. You're inferring a cause. Give me a memo or some statement that he's made that shows he is actually behind it, and I'll criticize Trump for that just like I have for his part in the Bump Stop ban.

 

[PaulF]

Trump doesn't need an adversarial attitude here, jamil...the actions of the Trump administration speak for the President.

The ATF falls under the purview of the Trump administration. Those are Trump's employees acting under the authority of the Trump administration...what evidence do you have that they are acting outside of Trump's wishes? Trump's lack of action against this administrative overreach is tacit support of that overreach.

Trump could fire these guys. He could call for the Justice Department to open an investigation. He could send out a tweet that braces are off-limits. Trump does none of these things. His prior use of extra-constitutional administrative action is more than enough evidence that he supports its use.

I think you're wrong about this one jamil.

 

[KLB]

Trump doesn't need an adversarial attitude here, jamil...the actions of the Trump administration speak for the President.

The ATF falls under the purview of the Trump administration. Those are Trump's employees acting under the authority of the Trump administration...what evidence do you have that they are acting outside of Trump's wishes? Trump's lack of action against this administrative overreach is tacit support of that overreach.

Trump could fire these guys. He could call for the Justice Department to open an investigation. He could send out a tweet that braces are off-limits. Trump does none of these things. His prior use of extra-constitutional administrative action is more than enough evidence that he supports its use.

I think you're wrong about this one jamil.

There is a lot wrong with your post.

Trump cannot fire these people. The bureaucracy is mostly protected from that.

A tweet does nothing. Bureaucrats don't take direction from tweets. During this administration they have at times worked counter to his desires.

What would he order the justice department to investigate? You think some law was broken here?

You really are off the rails here. Trump set a horrible precedent with the bumpstocks, but this is not necessarily on him. Maybe he gave direction to do this, but I highly doubt he knew anything about it. There is probably a good chance that no one at the top of the ATF even knew about it.

 

[jamil]

Trump doesn't need an adversarial attitude here, jamil...the actions of the Trump administration speak for the President.

The ATF falls under the purview of the Trump administration. Those are Trump's employees acting under the authority of the Trump administration...what evidence do you have that they are acting outside of Trump's wishes? Trump's lack of action against this administrative overreach is tacit support of that overreach.

Trump could fire these guys. He could call for the Justice Department to open an investigation. He could send out a tweet that braces are off-limits. Trump does none of these things. His prior use of extra-constitutional administrative action is more than enough evidence that he supports its use.

I think you're wrong about this one jamil.

What? It's clear that the regulars in his own administration don't really like Trump, and some have even worked to help oust him. And I'm surprised that you're asking me to prove the negative. You made the statement. It's up to you to prove the positive. Also, about the support of overreach, it is not the case that lack of stopping it is evidence of tacit support. You show me that Trump was aware and approves. The burden is on you, not me.

 

[Redhorse]

I’ve skimmed through this thread off and on a few times. Honestly, Democrats want more gun control while Republicans want to just keep the status quo. Republicans haven’t done much for gun rights in years. The biggest thing they’ve done is inaction on re-signing the AWB in 2004.