Texas to take up bill requiring Ten Commandments in every public school

[Ingomike]

In reality, it's far more the same than different. Come'on it's the same… …curriculum,

No it is not. Far from it.

The books demonstrating sex were not in my library, even in jr. high.

Additionally the teachers are different, today they are often activists.

I had no activist teachers…

 

[jamil]

Where have you been for the last 20+ years. It was in school when I was in high school.
It isn't just social studies it's now in science and biology.

If Christians or Muslims or Buddhist etc must send their children to a private school why don't secular humanist? If they don't agree with a simple poster placed in school about morality.

Still not a clear yes or no. But anyway...

Teaching the theory of evolution is not secular humanism. Secular humanism is the belief that one does not need God to live a moral and meaningful life. If schools are teaching kids that this is truth, then that's a violation of the constitution. Teaching the theory of evolution is not a violation. It's just teaching the leading theory of how we all came to be. You can point to empirical evidence of evolution and it's fair game to teach that as the leading theory. God is untestable, and is therefore metaphysical. A discussion of God in science is unreasonable. But is fair game to discuss in philosophy classes, BTW.

 

[Ingomike]

Poppycock. You must watch too much Twitter, too.

I was just tutoring a child do math, and read Dr. Seuss (I thought those were banned?!)
(And before you ask, it was a work day, so I had on a bow tie, not my sequinned night gown. )


And wait, Huck Finn and Tom Sawyer? Those were banned long ago, too!
And you want talk about muzzling teachers, let's talk CRT.
And books on gay marriage? What, do you want to pretend it doesn't exist in America?
All this banning makes as much sense as, "If just don't teach kids about sex, then they won't have sex."


I don't understand notion that witholding information and ideas makes children (and adults) smarter.


Both sides need to stop the banning and culture warring in school.

Why do you defend them?

 

[Ingomike]

When you tutor children, do you discuss your wee-wee? Do you discuss their private parts? Do you tell the children that boys can become girls? Do you expose them to graphic pictures depicting intercourse? I can't decide if you're feigning ignorance of child sexualization or if you truly believe children should be sexualized.

He doesn’t need to do that. He just needs to tutor math because they spend the whole day discussing and playing with wee-wee…

 

[KLB]

Yes. In Stone v. Graham, 449 U.S. 39 (1980). The KY law that required posting 10 commandments in every public school classroom was ruled to violate the 1A establishment clause.

Looks like reading the bible in school was ruled out in 1963.
Abington Township v. Schempp, 1963

The Supreme Court Strikes Down Bible Readings in Public Schools | Encyclopedia.com

The Supreme Court Strikes Down Bible Readings in Public SchoolsTom C. Clark Source for information on The Supreme Court Strikes Down Bible Readings in Public Schools: The Bill of Rights 1 dictionary.

www.encyclopedia.com

 

[DadSmith]

Still not a clear yes or no. But anyway...

Teaching the theory of evolution is not secular humanism. Secular humanism is the belief that one does not need God to live a moral and meaningful life. If schools are teaching kids that this is truth, then that's a violation of the constitution. Teaching the theory of evolution is not a violation. It's just teaching the leading theory of how we all came to be. You can point to empirical evidence of evolution and it's fair game to teach that as the leading theory. God is untestable, and is therefore metaphysical. A discussion of God in science is unreasonable. But is fair game to discuss in philosophy classes, BTW.

They go hand in hand. I haven't meet a secular humanist that isn't an evolutionist as well.

 

[Ingomike]

How does "the community" have any power other than being government? If it's a private school, no problem. I would not expect a Christian school to allow anything but Christian artifacts. If it's a public school, that's a different beast. Everyone at a public school should have equal protection under the law. That's how free societies work.

You want 10 commandments? You're free to have your Christian schools. Other religions are free to have theirs. The community is not empowered to establish a religion as having special statuses and privileges. This is what freedom of religion means. Free exercise is equal exercise.

To me, this is a money issue. TPTB have set up a system where everyone is forced to pay for public schools. As was noted up thread, the monies collected for education should be converted to vouchers, parents give the school of their choice their voucher, the school gets the money. All schools public and private are included.

So much of the bad in schools being fought over could be eliminated with this. Satanic schools could compete with christian schools…

 

[jamil]

But anyway, if this is only about secular humanism, why did the discussion start as it did and then continue the way it did? I said early on that I agree with you about allowing people to live their religious beliefs, even in school. It's why I've been asking the question and still mistified that a simple yes or no wasn't enough.

But anyway, later we progress the conversation to Christians being disgruntled about secular humanism. Which again, I agree it should not be taught that it is should replace religion and the concept of god. Religious faith is up to the believer. If they teach it as an IS, along with the same kind of teaching of various religions as an IS, it's all good. An understanding of what the major religions are and what they believe is beneficial to a well rounded education.

It's only when a "SHOULD" is attached to the teaching that it's inappropriate for public schools.

 

[DadSmith]

But anyway, if this is only about secular humanism, why did the discussion start as it did and then continue the way it did? I said early on that I agree with you about allowing people to live their religious beliefs, even in school. It's why I've been asking the question and still mistified that a simple yes or no wasn't enough.

But anyway, later we progress the conversation to Christians being disgruntled about secular humanism. Which again, I agree it should not be taught that it is should replace religion and the concept of god. Religious faith is up to the believer. If they teach it as an IS, along with the same kind of teaching of various religions as an IS, it's all good. An understanding of what the major religions are and what they believe is beneficial to a well rounded education.

It's only when a "SHOULD" is attached to the teaching that it's inappropriate for public schools.

Don't worry Jamil nothing will change. It will only get worse until the day of the lord.
I'm pointing out the hypocrisy of how the secular humanists/atheists, and the left can say or do what they want, and religious people have to go through mountains of red tape.
You, and those that are not religious see no wrong in this because your side has won for now.

 

[jamil]

They go hand in hand. I haven't meet a secular humanist that isn't an evolutionist as well.

Maybe so. I would think all secular humanists would adopt evolution as a belief in how we got here. So you might say all secular humanists are also evolutionist, but not all evolutionists are secular humanists.

 

[DadSmith]

Maybe so. I would think all secular humanists would adopt evolution as a belief in how we got here. So you might say all secular humanists are also evolutionist, but not all evolutionists are secular humanists.

The pope is an evolutionist. I know a few who call themselves Christians who believe in it.

However, they have no say in what schools do. That is left entirely up to the secular humanists/atheists and the left.

 

[jamil]

Don't worry Jamil nothing will change.

The only thing I'm "worried" about as it pertains to this discussion is that people like to use religion, whether atheist or deist, to remove restrict the right to free conscience.

It will only get worse until the day of the lord.

That's your belief and you have every right to it. But I'd rather you not try to impose it on anyway through your community standards.

I'm pointing out the hypocrisy of how the secular humanists/atheists, and the left can say or do what they want, and religious people have to go through mountains of red tape.

Well it's turned into that. But at first you were asserting your desire to make public schools put 10 commandment posters on the wall. My only objection to that has been that if you get to post yours, then everyone else gets to post theirs. And of course we had that discussion about how the US was founded to be a Christian nation.

You, and those that are not religious see no wrong in this because your side has won for now.

Me? I've explained my position on it. I don't want secular humanists to impose their beliefs as the de facto religion any more than I want any other religion to impose theirs. Our only difference on this would be that you might want yours to the exclusion of everyone else's.

 

[XMil]

Why is the religion of secular humanism allowed only in schools? So not all religion is banned.
Why do secular humanist get to dictate everything being taught?

Yet for over 150 years the bible was taught in America schools. So obviously removing it from schools wasn't included until the secular humanist took over.

1. I have no idea. I meant what I said. All of them should be excluded.

2. I don't find the appeal to tradition compelling. We didn't allow women to vote for ~144 years. That doesn't make it right.

 

[Ingomike]

Again if the community wants to put up something from their local religion than as stated the school board should comply.
If they are Hindu, Buddhist, Muslims, Christians, Jews etc.
If the community wants something from their religious beliefs in their local community schools it should be done.

NEVER! I believe I know where you are coming from but do not believe you are thinking this through to the obvious extreme the leftist activists will take this. The unintended consequences would be tremendous…

 

[Ingomike]

Government of all kinds should be kept out of the school's teaching, displays etc.

FIFY

 

[Ingomike]

if you don't like schools teaching secular humanism, why can't you put YOUR kids in a different school?

The system is rigged so they get your money no matter what, but if you do not want their teachings pushed on your kids you must pay again. That is the root of the problem.

@Leadeye ”follow the money”…

 

[JettaKnight]

It is what I've been saying. It's up to the community. If the community has multiple religious beliefs than it has a right to post those.

Right now it's secular humanist aka atheists who have it their way and no one else has a say.

How is the communities' beliefs determined? Census data? A poll? Voting? A school board meeting that devolves into a shouting match and fisticuffs?

Just look at all the rancor over masks - kids were caught sure in the middle of parents acting juvenile.

Something like want you propose has the power of being several orders of magnitude worse with all the Twitter culture warriors trying to butt in and "protect" the children.

We already see it with one "religion" and their "priestesses" in drag reading from the holy books to kids.


Look, I'm with you, there's a TON of value in studying the Bible from both a religious and literary perspective.

But it is also possible to promote morality without the religious undertones.

How are you going to write, "you shall not commit adultery" when it's widely accepted in society, not illegal at all, and even tacitly accepted in most churches?

You should at least acknowledge that the Ten Commandments were give to the Israelites, not the whole world. Of course I believe they, and all Christian ethics, are right and valuable, but that's in large part due to the fact that I believe they come from a good and righteous God.

 

[JettaKnight]

The system is rigged so they get your money no matter what, but if you do not want their teachings pushed on your kids you must pay again. That is the root of the problem.

@Leadeye ”follow the money”…

It's so rigged that even those of us without kids have to pay for it!

 

[JettaKnight]

NEVER! I believe I know where you are coming from but do not believe you are thinking this through to the obvious extreme the leftist activists will take this. The unintended consequences would be tremendous…

This guy gets it.

 

[Ingomike]

It's so rigged that even those of us without kids have to pay for it!

Yes we do!