Texas to take up bill requiring Ten Commandments in every public school

[XMil]

Each community can and should have a say as to what their children are being taught.

Religion of all kinds should be kept out of the school's teaching, displays etc.

 

[jamil]

I don't know how much simpler I can put this.

Pretty easy. You could say yes or no. You still haven't acknowledged the other part. That 50%+1 of a community can tell 50% - 1 of a community that the slight majority can openly put up their religious posters, and the slight minority can't.

And. How far does it go? Even among Christians, in this community utopia, can only the pre-tribbers put up their posters if the majority are pre-trib?

 

[jamil]

Religion of all kinds should be kept out of the school's teaching, displays etc.

Either all or nothing. I don't have a problem with things like that as long as everyone has equal rights. But, in a practical sense, probably "all" is not conducive to learning in an institution of learning. So it may be better to keep school about academics, vocational training, etcetera.

 

[XMil]

Either all or nothing. I don't have a problem with things like that as long as everyone has equal rights. But, in a practical sense, probably "all" is not conducive to learning in an institution of learning. So it may be better to keep school about academics, vocational training, etcetera.

I mean, that's what private schools are for. If some group wants wants to teach their kids the ways of snake handling or the power and glory of Zeus. Go for it.

You'd see the real feelings of the few vocal "let the community do what it wants" people, if posters showing the Five Pillars of Islam showed up in Trafalgar schools.

 

[jamil]

I mean, that's what private schools are for. If some group wants wants to teach their kids the ways of snake handling or the power and glory of Zeus. Go for it.

You'd see the real feelings of the few vocal "let the community do what it wants" people, if posters showing the Five Pillars of Islam showed up in Trafalgar schools.

I made a similar point up thread. If the community wants exclusively a Christian worldview taught in schools, they can run their own private schools. But if it's a public school, everyone must have the same rights. If you can post yours, they can post theirs.

Let's test this one. You're a Christian, poor, and for circumstantial reasons, you're stuck educating your kids in public schools. The community voted to make their public schools primarily Wicca. I mean, full on witches and hocus pocus ****. You dig that collective community choice now? I didn't think so. But it's fine when you're the majority, right?

 

[DadSmith]

What is "the community"? One family? A majority?


It isn't that hard. There came a time when some people did not want their children taught the chosen religion in school. Being a public school, the school should be welcoming to children of all religious beliefs, including those with none.

Still didn't make it unconstitutional unless the SCOTUS ruled it so. Is there such a case?
Public school is paid for by the community taxes.
If a person doesn't like the school their child is going to they can switch. It even happens in small Ripley County Indiana. They can also move or pay to send them to a private school of their choice.

 

[DadSmith]

Religion of all kinds should be kept out of the school's teaching, displays etc.

Why?
Because your side gets to dictate what is acceptable, and no one else can have a say?
What is wrong with good religious quotes of morality?

This is exactly why this country is on the mess it is today because of the lack of morality and self-governing.

 

[DadSmith]

Pretty easy. You could say yes or no. You still haven't acknowledged the other part. That 50%+1 of a community can tell 50% - 1 of a community that the slight majority can openly put up their religious posters, and the slight minority can't.

And. How far does it go? Even among Christians, in this community utopia, can only the pre-tribbers put up their posters if the majority are pre-trib?

If you do not understand the concept of community I can't help you.

 

[jamil]

Still didn't make it unconstitutional unless the SCOTUS ruled it so. Is there such a case?

Yes. In Stone v. Graham, 449 U.S. 39 (1980). The KY law that required posting 10 commandments in every public school classroom was ruled to violate the 1A establishment clause.

Public school is paid for by the community taxes.
If a person doesn't like the school their child is going to they can switch. It even happens in small Ripley County Indiana. They can also move or pay to send them to a private school of their choice.

Like was said a few posts ago, this sounds an awful lot like you essentially want a private school, but payed for by tax payers. Nothing is stopping you from starting a private school and your church paying for it. There are a lot of church schools, in fact. When I went to church our church had its own private school. And for people who could not afford to send their kids to school, their tuition was subsidized by the church.

You act as if this "community" is monolithic. This is a collective mindset not a lot different from the progressive hivemind. Our public school system isn't set up with a different public school for every faction imaginable. You just want it for your faction. Why?

 

[jamil]

Why?
Because your side gets to dictate what is acceptable, and no one else can have a say?
What is wrong with good religious quotes of morality?

This is exactly why this country is on the mess it is today because of the lack of morality and self-governing.

Isn't that exactly what you're advocating though?

I agree that the country is in the mess that it's in today because of immorality and lack of an individual ability to self-govern. Otherwise known as responsibility. But, that doesn't mean that we have to take away rights because you don't like what someone might do with them.

 

[XMil]

Why?
Because your side gets to dictate what is acceptable, and no one else can have a say?
What is wrong with good religious quotes of morality?

This is exactly why this country is on the mess it is today because of the lack of morality and self-governing

My side? I don't know what you mean by that. "My side" to be clear, is personal freedom and freedom from established religion, you know, like your beloved founding fathers insisted upon. Having a school teach or endorse any religion IS establishing religion. I don't want my children to be subjected to your beliefs just because you happen to be the majority, any more than you would want it the other way 'round.

Also, setting up a false dichotomy doesn't really support your case. Being opposed to establishing religion is not a condemnation of "good religious quotes of morality?"

 

[DadSmith]

Yes. In Stone v. Graham, 449 U.S. 39 (1980). The KY law that required posting 10 commandments in every public school classroom was ruled to violate the 1A establishment clause.



Like was said a few posts ago, this sounds an awful lot like you essentially want a private school, but payed for by tax payers. Nothing is stopping you from starting a private school and your church paying for it. There are a lot of church schools, in fact. When I went to church our church had its own private school. And for people who could not afford to send their kids to school, their tuition was subsidized by the church.

You act as if this "community" is monolithic. This is a collective mindset not a lot different from the progressive hivemind. Our public school system isn't set up with a different public school for every faction imaginable. You just want it for your faction. Why?

Why is the religion of secular humanism allowed only in schools? So not all religion is banned.
Why do secular humanist get to dictate everything being taught?

You misunderstood what I meant about going to a different school. If you are a secular humanist and your child is going to a school where Christian or other religious quotes are shown you can simply find a different school to send your child too as well. Or send then to a private school that only teaches secular humanism.

 

[DadSmith]

Isn't that exactly what you're advocating though?

I agree that the country is in the mess that it's in today because of immorality and lack of an individual ability to self-govern. Otherwise known as responsibility. But, that doesn't mean that we have to take away rights because you don't like what someone might do with them.

Nope it isn't. I'm advocating that the community gets to have a say as to what they want. If the community has multiple religious beliefs they all get a say not just the secular humanist that have taken over every school in the country.

 

[jamil]

If you do not understand the concept of community I can't help you.

I understand the concept of community. I also understand the concept of equal rights.

I notice you still don't want to say that you want to make your right to post your religious artifacts exclusively, denying the right of other religions from doing so. The whole, well, let them have their own school, doesn't hold water in a discussion about taxpayer funded public schools.

 

[DadSmith]

My side? I don't know what you mean by that. "My side" to be clear, is personal freedom and freedom from established religion, you know, like your beloved founding fathers insisted upon. Having a school teach or endorse any religion IS establishing religion. I don't want my children to be subjected to your beliefs just because you happen to be the majority, any more than you would want it the other way 'round.

Also, setting up a false dichotomy doesn't really support your case. Being opposed to establishing religion is not a condemnation of "good religious quotes of morality?"

Yet for over 150 years the bible was taught in America schools. So obviously removing it from schools wasn't included until the secular humanist took over.

 

[DadSmith]

I understand the concept of community. I also understand the concept of equal rights.

I notice you still don't want to say that you want to make your right to post your religious artifacts exclusively, denying the right of other religions from doing so. The whole, well, let them have their own school, doesn't hold water in a discussion about taxpayer funded public schools.

Obviously you took what you what to believe about me, and ran with it.

I believe secular humanism should not be the only religion allowed in schools. You say if one is allowed all should be. Yet for many years it's only been secular humanism.

 

[jamil]

Why is the religion of secular humanism allowed only in schools? So not all religion is banned.
Why di secular humanist get to dictate everything bring taught?

Secular humanism isn't being taught per se outside of social studies curriculum that teaches what it is. But if it is being taught in terms of being superior or authoritative, then of course that should not be part of the curriculum.

But that you say it that way, makes me think you don't know what secular humanism is. If public schools are teaching kids to believe that humans can have morality and self-fulfillment without God, then I think that would be as inappropriate as public schools teaching kids to believe that Jesus died on the cross for their sins.

You misunderstood what I meant about going to a different school. If you are a secular humanist and your child is going to a school where Christian or other religious quotes are shown you can simply find a different school to send your child too as well. Or send then to a private school that only teaches secular humanism.

That's not practical for everyone. Not everyone can just move to a different district. Under your way, to allow equal rights there would need to be a school for every religion. But what's astonishing to me, if you don't like schools teaching secular humanism, why can't you put YOUR kids in a different school?

 

[DadSmith]

Secular humanism isn't being taught per se outside of social studies curriculum that teaches what it is. But if it is being taught in terms of being superior or authoritative, then of course that should not be part of the curriculum.

But that you say it that way, makes me think you don't know what secular humanism is. If public schools are teaching kids to believe that humans can have morality and self-fulfillment without God, then I think that would be as inappropriate as public schools teaching kids to believe that Jesus died on the cross for their sins.



That's not practical for everyone. Not everyone can just move to a different district. Under your way, to allow equal rights there would need to be a school for every religion. But what's astonishing to me, if you don't like schools teaching secular humanism, why can't you put YOUR kids in a different school?

Where have you been for the last 20+ years. It was in school when I was in high school.
It isn't just social studies it's now in science and biology.

If Christians or Muslims or Buddhist etc must send their children to a private school why don't secular humanist? If they don't agree with a simple poster placed in school about morality.

Under current conditions a religious family cannot afford to send their children to religious school of choice. Why should they not have some accommodations as well as the secular humanist?

 

[jamil]

Nope it isn't. I'm advocating that the community gets to have a say as to what they want. If the community has multiple religious beliefs they all get a say not just the secular humanist that have taken over every school in the country.

That's not what you've been saying exactly. This sounds more like what I said, but that you refused to acknowledge, that you get your 10 commandments and Buddists get their thing, Hindus get theirs, Muslims get theirs, and so on. If you really thought that though, why did you not affirm it when I asked?

We'll try it again. And I'll try to be more precise this time even though I'm pretty sure you get what I'm asking.

If it's a Christian majority (that means 50%+1 on up), are they allowed to hang their 10 commandments up in classrooms, while forbidding other religions from handing theirs? That's a simple yes or no question that I'd really like answered so I understand exactly what you are advocating. This equivocating doesn't nail it down.

 

[DadSmith]

That's not what you've been saying exactly. This sounds more like what I said, but that you refused to acknowledge, that you get your 10 commandments and Buddists get their thing, Hindus get theirs, Muslims get theirs, and so on. If you really thought that though, why did you not affirm it when I asked?

We'll try it again. And I'll try to be more precise this time even though I'm pretty sure you get what I'm asking.

If it's a Christian majority (that means 50%+1 on up), are they allowed to hang their 10 commandments up in classrooms, while forbidding other religions from handing theirs? That's a simple yes or no question that I'd really like answered so I understand exactly what you are advocating. This equivocating doesn't nail it down.

It is what I've been saying. It's up to the community. If the community has multiple religious beliefs than it has a right to post those.

Right now it's secular humanist aka atheists who have it their way and no one else has a say.