Texas to take up bill requiring Ten Commandments in every public school

[DoggyDaddy]

Wow. I don't think I knew that it housed a school back then. The campus and some of the buildings are kinda neat. They're old, dilapidated and still had flaking lead paint in some areas. But the woodwork and other details were fantastic, if viewed for the decadence. The school itself sucked. No offense to yer mums. They didn't distribute textbooks. They didn't offer any lockers. It had a lunch hour exclusive to pregnant girls (and their baby daddy if he was inclined to go). When large fights would break out IPD (pre-merger) would just roll their patrol cars right up in the courtyard, sirens blaring and all. A couple teachers got beat down and there was a shooting in one of the parking lots. All circa mid-late '80s.

I had the year wrong. Mom was born in 1922. She'd have graduated in 1940, not 1930. But yeah, same campus, but it was a lot newer when she was there. That's crazy about the other stuff! I graduated in 1978, and my school had nothing like that going on down here in the 'burbs.

 

[LeftyGunner]

Be honest. If you were a kid, and got to choose your curriculum, would you choose the easy path, or the harder (but more valuable) path?

Okay, honestly: I would have gotten farther in life sooner if I had taken the VoTech path instead of the Academic path.

I’m an auto mechanic now. I didn’t start on that path until almost 30, though, because I tried to force myself into the white-collar world for a while after college.

I attended a preparatory academy group from the time I was 3 years old until I graduated at 18. I was expected by my family and the administration to work hard and gain acceptance to an ivy-leave college upon graduation.

I did work hard, but I was nowhere near as bright as some (most, if I’m honest) of the other students, and I struggle in a lecture-oriented environment, so I dragged along the bottom academically. I did not get within 500 miles of the Ivy League, lol.

It wasn’t even until upper school that I experienced anything approaching “hands-on” learning, when I discovered the auditorium‘s scene shop and the stagecraft instructor. It was extra-curricular and quite limited, but it opened the door to hands-on learning and earning, both of which fit me well.

I would have been better served by vocational education had I known such a thing existed. I doubt my parents would have gone for it, though…their experiences led them to believe college was the superior path for any young person.

 

[KLB]

Be honest. If you were a kid, and got to choose your curriculum, would you choose the easy path, or the harder (but more valuable) path?

We chose a lot of our classes back in the early 80s. There were core subjects you had to take, but not specific classes for a lot of them.

 

[DadSmith]

The great enemy of the salvation of man, in my opinion, never invented a more effectual means of extirpating [extinguishing] Christianity from the world than by persuading mankind that it was improper to read the Bible at schools. [T]he Bible, when not read in schools, is seldom read in any subsequent period of life. . . . [It] should be read in our schools in preference to all other books from its containing the greatest portion of that kind of knowledge which is calculated to produce private and public temporal happiness.
BENJAMIN RUSH, SIGNER OF THE DECLARATION


Why] should not the Bible regain the place it once held as a school book? Its morals are pure, its examples captivating and noble. The reverence for the Sacred Book that is thus early impressed lasts long; and probably if not impressed in infancy, never takes firm hold of the mind.
FISHER AMES, AUTHOR OF THE HOUSE LANGUAGE FOR THE FIRST AMENDMENT



Suppose a nation in some distant region should take the Bible for their only law book and every member should regulate his conduct by the precepts there exhibited.... What a Eutopia, what a Paradise would this region be. I have examined all [religions]... and the result is that the Bible is the best Book in the world. It contains more of my little philosophy than all the libraries I have seen.
JOHN ADAMS



One of the beautiful boasts of our municipal jurisprudence is that Christianity is a part of the Common Law. There never has been a period in which the Common Law did not recognize Christianity as lying at its foundations. I verily believe Christianity necessary to the support of civil society.
JOSEPH STORY, U S. SUPREME COURT JUSTICE; FATHER OF AMERICAN JURISPRUDENCE


We have been assured, Sir, in the Sacred Writings that except the Lord build the house, they labor in vain that build it I firmly believe this; and I also believe that without His concurring aid, we shall succeed in this political building no better than the builders of Babel.
BENJAMIN FRANKLIN


[T]he Christian religion its general principles must ever be regarded among us as the foundation of civil society.
DANIEL WEBSTER


[T]he religion which has introduced civil liberty is the religion of Christ and his apostles.... and to this we owe our free constitutions of government.
NOAH WEBSTER


As guardians of the prosperity, liberty; and morals of the State, we are therefore bound by every injunction of patriotism and wisdom to patronize public improvements and to cherish all institutions for the diffusion of religious knowledge and for the promotion of virtue and piety.
DANIEL TOMPKINS, GOVERNOR OF NEW YORK; VICE-PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES

 

[jamil]

If hanging a sign in a school made any difference, there'd be no school shootings. We are long past the time where "putting prayer back in schools" or displaying 10 Commandments will do any good. The problem is far upstream from any of that stuff and conservatives seem to only be interested in fighting battles that will do nothing to resolve the issues.

Case in point:

I was going to say pretty much the same thing. Requiring the 10 commandments in school isn't going to suddenly make people "Godly". A society that reflects the values represented by a religious symbol, might eventually display the symbol as a reminder of those values. But the values come first.

Also. If that law passes, will other religions have their stuff on display?

 

[jamil]

The great enemy of the salvation of man, in my opinion, never invented a more effectual means of extirpating [extinguishing] Christianity from the world than by persuading mankind that it was improper to read the Bible at schools. [T]he Bible, when not read in schools, is seldom read in any subsequent period of life. . . . [It] should be read in our schools in preference to all other books from its containing the greatest portion of that kind of knowledge which is calculated to produce private and public temporal happiness.
BENJAMIN RUSH, SIGNER OF THE DECLARATION


Why] should not the Bible regain the place it once held as a school book? Its morals are pure, its examples captivating and noble. The reverence for the Sacred Book that is thus early impressed lasts long; and probably if not impressed in infancy, never takes firm hold of the mind.
FISHER AMES, AUTHOR OF THE HOUSE LANGUAGE FOR THE FIRST AMENDMENT



Suppose a nation in some distant region should take the Bible for their only law book and every member should regulate his conduct by the precepts there exhibited.... What a Eutopia, what a Paradise would this region be. I have examined all [religions]... and the result is that the Bible is the best Book in the world. It contains more of my little philosophy than all the libraries I have seen.
JOHN ADAMS



One of the beautiful boasts of our municipal jurisprudence is that Christianity is a part of the Common Law. There never has been a period in which the Common Law did not recognize Christianity as lying at its foundations. I verily believe Christianity necessary to the support of civil society.
JOSEPH STORY, U S. SUPREME COURT JUSTICE; FATHER OF AMERICAN JURISPRUDENCE


We have been assured, Sir, in the Sacred Writings that except the Lord build the house, they labor in vain that build it I firmly believe this; and I also believe that without His concurring aid, we shall succeed in this political building no better than the builders of Babel.
BENJAMIN FRANKLIN


[T]he Christian religion its general principles must ever be regarded among us as the foundation of civil society.
DANIEL WEBSTER


[T]he religion which has introduced civil liberty is the religion of Christ and his apostles.... and to this we owe our free constitutions of government.
NOAH WEBSTER


As guardians of the prosperity, liberty; and morals of the State, we are therefore bound by every injunction of patriotism and wisdom to patronize public improvements and to cherish all institutions for the diffusion of religious knowledge and for the promotion of virtue and piety.
DANIEL TOMPKINS, GOVERNOR OF NEW YORK; VICE-PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES

Why shouldn't Hindu texts be in school then? Should the US only be Christian?

 

[HoosierLife]

As a Catholic, I think it is probably crossing the line as for a seperation of church and state. Even though the ten commandments is really just basic guide on how to be a decent human being.

What separation of church and state you talking about?

CNN’s version or what??

 

[jamil]

What separation of church and state you talking about?

CNN’s version or what??

The one that says congress can creat no law that establishes religion or [prohibits] the free exercise thereof.

Edit: added a very important word.

 

[DadSmith]

Why shouldn't Hindu texts be in school then? Should the US only be Christian?

We can't ask the founders what they thought, but we have their thoughts written down. So what do you think they believed?

 

[KLB]

We can't ask the founders what they thought, but we have their thoughts written down. So what do you think they believed?

We know what they put into the constitution. That is the important thing.

The State Forcing a religion upon people was not what they believed.

 

[HoosierLife]

The one that says congress can creat no law that establishes religion or the free exercise thereof.

Is congress involved in this?

 

[KLB]

Is congress involved in this?

It applies equally to the States.

 

[jamil]

We can't ask the founders what they thought, but we have their thoughts written down. So what do you think they believed?

Did they establish Christianity as the state religion?

 

[jamil]

Is congress involved in this?

The 1st amendment is incorporated. So it means that government at any level cannot establish a defacto religion. Are you arguing for the government to establish a religion?

 

[jamil]

It applies equally to the States.

Unless he's wanting to pick and choose which parts of the constitution are incorporated.

 

[DadSmith]

Did they establish Christianity as the state religion?

Did they ban Christianity in schools?

 

[jamil]

Did they ban Christianity in schools?

This is one aspect where I agree with you, that the constitution does not prohibit the people in government from being religious themselves. Just that they can't establish a defacto religion that people from other religions or no religion must abide.

So. If you want your 10 Commandments, then Muslims, Jews, Hindus, Wicca/pagans/whatever, get to have their religious artifacts displayed in schools too. If states only allow artifacts from Christianity, then they are, in effect, establishing Christianity as the defacto religion, which is clearly unconstitutional.

 

[DadSmith]

This is one aspect where I agree with you, that the constitution does not prohibit the people in government from being religious themselves. Just that they can't establish a defacto religion that people from other religions or no religion must abide.

So. If you want your 10 Commandments, then Muslims, Jews, Hindus, Wicca/pagans/whatever, get to have their religious artifacts displayed in schools too. If states only allow artifacts from Christianity, then they are, in effect, establishing Christianity as the defacto religion, which is clearly unconstitutional.

At the time our country was founded it was a large majority Christian, however since we used Judaeo-Christian ethics it automatically included Judaism.

Now that we are much more diverse, and since the constitution allows freedom of worship of religion as long as that religion doesn't interfere with the free worship of other religions I don't see why not.

I could go find you multiple writing of how the founders felt about Islam.
However, I think you probably already know what many of them felt about it.
Yet that doesn't change the fact that we have freedom to worship the religion of our choice.

I believe it should be left up to the community that each school corporation is in. If that community wants the 10 Commandments in their schools so be it.
If the community wants something from the Koran or something else that's upto the community and the school board should act accordingly.

 

[jamil]

At the time our country was founded it was a large majority Christian, however since we used Judaeo-Christian ethics it automatically included Judaism.

Now that we are much more diverse, and since the constitution allows freedom of worship of religion as long as that religion doesn't interfere with the free worship of other religions I don't see why not.

I could go find you multiple writing of how the founders felt about Islam.
However, I think you probably already know what many of them felt about it.
Yet that doesn't change the fact that we have freedom to worship the religion of our choice.

I believe it should be left up to the community that each school corporation is in. If that community wants the 10 Commandments in their schools so be it.
If the community wants something from the Koran or something else that's upto the community and the school board should act accordingly.

Then that community is establishing THE religion, even if it allow other religions to practice outside of that venue. Government giving one religion privilages another religion isn't allowed IS establishing a religion.

I don't get why evangelicals push this state power so hard. By all means, spread your word. That's the great commission. It IS a major part of Christianity. It's a free country. Just try not to violate other people's rights and you're good to go. But you don't get to use the power of the state to do it. But, everyone should get equal treatment. So allow all religious artifacts in schools, or none. No special treatment.

 

[DadSmith]

Then that community is establishing THE religion, even if it allow other religions to practice outside of that venue. Government giving one religion privilages another religion isn't allowed IS establishing a religion.

I don't get why evangelicals push this state power so hard. By all means, spread your word. That's the great commission. It IS a major part of Christianity. It's a free country. Just try not to violate other people's rights and you're good to go. But you don't get to use the power of the state to do it. But, everyone should get equal treatment. So allow all religious artifacts in schools, or none. No special treatment.

No it isn't established its stating what that community wants. If the community doesn't want anything so be it.
It should be left up to the community not the government.
How is putting up a poster with good moral guidance an establishment of religion?