Texas to take up bill requiring Ten Commandments in every public school

[DadSmith]

Even if you take the Bible in a very wooden reading of Genesis 1, there was no one around for the first five days to observe it.

There was definitely no one around for the big bang or the cesspool of life if it happened millions or billions of years ago. So all modern science is based on faith when it comes to the creation of the universe and everything in it.

 

[Ziggidy]

Having a school teach or endorse any religion IS establishing religion. I don't want my children to be subjected to your beliefs just because you happen to be the majority, any more than you would want it the other way 'round.

How is posting the 10 Commandments “teaching or endorsing” religion?

I think parents should be more concerned about what is actually being taught and exposed rather that seeing the 10 Commandment son the wall.

 

[Ziggidy]

I expect Ten Commandments posters to work just about as well as Gun Free Zone signs.

They certainly could not hurt.

 

[jamil]

What is the empirical evidence of the big bang or the cesspool of life? How about anything that happened more than 7000 years ago.

One was observed the other was not.
Its up to you to accept it or reject it.

I think that I can say the same thing. Clearly there were no eye-witnesses alive today to have observed what happened 7000 years ago, or billions of years ago for that matter. But in your claim that there were eye witness accounts for Adam and Eve, you haven't presented any testable evidence that anyone actually observed it.

To be clear. I'm not crapping on faith as a means to belief. There are many reasons why people believe stuff. And who am I to tell you that you're wrong. But who are you to tell me I am? If you require some empirical evidence, there's is no way to test empirically that the Bible account of creation is true. You have to start with faith.

The big bang is a scientific theory formed to explanation what scientists have observed about the way the cosmos is changing. Obviously, observation had to be involved in the first place if an explanation was needed for the observation. That’s tautologically obvious.

That's how science works. You observe something. And then you ask, why and how did that happen that way? And then you think of ways to explain what you observed. And you go about testing your explanation with new information. And if new information tends to disprove your explanation, you modify your explanation.

With the creation story, you first believe by faith. Maybe you find ways that new observations support what you already believe. And if there is no way to get an observation to support the belief, you reject the observation. That's essentially circular reasoning. But like I said, reasoning and science isn't the only way to arrive at a truth. If you believe something that ends up being true, it doesn't matter how you came to believe it. You believe your way. I believe mine. Hopefully we can coexist that way. I'd hate to be the recipient of a crusade.

 

[jamil]

Why?

TLDR the thread?

Yeah, all those pages you haven't read yet are a discussion of why.

The TLDR; is equal rights.

 

[jamil]

Who would?!

You can say that these laws are to keep that material out, but the actual line is being drawn far away from that.

Without resorting to sensationalist media, what elementary school library had such material? Is there some librarian in Indiana actually putting that on the shelf for little kids to read? And is there a school board that's actually okay with this?

I am not aware of schools in Indiana having that kind of material. But yes, these books are found in elementary school libraries and brought to school board meetings where parents are demanding to know why these books are in their kid's school. And the school boards are not behaving like one would think a sane board would behave, by promising to get to the bottom of it and making sure their libraries only carry books appropriate for the ages attending the school.

At first, the left was denying it just like you are. And then as these videos start coming out depicting what's happening, they switched to simply defending the behavior.

 

[Ingomike]

Who would?!

You can say that these laws are to keep that material out, but the actual line is being drawn far away from that.

Without resorting to sensationalist media, what elementary school library had such material? Is there some librarian in Indiana actually putting that on the shelf for little kids to read? And is there a school board that's actually okay with this?

YES to all of your questions.

 

[jamil]

They certainly could not hurt.

How will you react when you start seeing TicTok's posted of people defacing the posters, even with the help of teachers?

 

[Ziggidy]

Yeah, all those pages you haven't read yet are a discussion of why.

The TLDR; is equal rights.

Are you and Jetta Gabriel’s spokespersons?

I read most of the thread and have yet to understand the reasoning people would not want it posted; at least why you and Jetta don’t.

Nothing wrong with asking another person, is there? Do I have your permission?

 

[Ingomike]

Without resorting to sensationalist media,

Meaning without using media that reports this stuff, can you give me a link from NPR?

 

[jamil]

Who would?!

You can say that these laws are to keep that material out, but the actual line is being drawn far away from that.

Without resorting to sensationalist media, what elementary school library had such material? Is there some librarian in Indiana actually putting that on the shelf for little kids to read? And is there a school board that's actually okay with this?

One other point about that. Where are you getting your information for where the line is being drawn? Do you believe the "don't say gay" rhetoric spread by media?

 

[Ziggidy]

How will you react when you start seeing TicTok's posted of people defacing the posters, even with the help of teachers?

I’ll be angry. Simply because of the hypocrisy being exhibited by all and total lack of discipline.

 

[DadSmith]

I think that I can say the same thing. Clearly there were no eye-witnesses alive today to have observed what happened 7000 years ago, or billions of years ago for that matter. But in your claim that there were eye witness accounts for Adam and Eve, you haven't presented any testable evidence that anyone actually observed it.

To be clear. I'm not crapping on faith as a means to belief. There are many reasons why people believe stuff. And who am I to tell you that you're wrong. But who are you to tell me I am? If you require some empirical evidence, there's is no way to test empirically that the Bible account of creation is true. You have to start with faith.

The big bang is a scientific theory formed to explanation what scientists have observed about the way the cosmos is changing. Obviously, observation had to be involved in the first place if an explanation was needed for the observation. That’s tautologically obvious.

That's how science works. You observe something. And then you ask, why and how did that happen that way? And then you think of ways to explain what you observed. And you go about testing your explanation with new information. And if new information tends to disprove your explanation, you modify your explanation.

With the creation story, you first believe by faith. Maybe you find ways that new observations support what you already believe. And if there is no way to get an observation to support the belief, you reject the observation. That's essentially circular reasoning. But like I said, reasoning and science isn't the only way to arrive at a truth. If you believe something that ends up being true, it doesn't matter how you came to believe it. You believe your way. I believe mine. Hopefully we can coexist that way. I'd hate to be the recipient of a crusade.

Observation can not have happened in the past so its still blind faith in man's interpretation. That interpretation is based on their worldview.
Look at climate science it's just as corrupt.
All science of today is corrupt because of the worldview pushed on science.

 

[jamil]

Are you and Jetta Gabriel’s spokespersons?

I read most of the thread and have yet to understand the reasoning people would not want it posted; at least why you and Jetta don’t.

Nothing wrong with asking another person, is there? Do I have your permission?

No cause to get huffy. You asked a question of one poster and other posters answered. That's typically what happens in a discussion. You did not indicate that you only wanted Gabriel to reply. And, the rest of the thread was an explanation for why.

I'll re-sum it for you. If it's public, if you get your religious texts in schools, everyone else does too. It's what it is.

 

[jamil]

I’ll be angry. Simply because of the hypocrisy being exhibited by all and total lack of discipline.

I'll be angry too. First, its naive to think that just posting it up there is going to correct anything, and you said it wouldn't hurt. I think giving thugs another reason to deface something is "hurt".

But I'll also be angry because schools should maintain order in class. No one should get away with that kind of behavior. And like I said, I'm pretty sure in a lot of classrooms, activist teachers will be right there with them. And those teachers should be fired. **** tenure.

 

[jamil]

There was definitely no one around for the big bang or the cesspool of life if it happened millions or billions of years ago. So all modern science is based on faith when it comes to the creation of the universe and everything in it.

But there is archeological evidence today that are observations, and the explanations for those observations go through the scientific process.

 

[JettaKnight]

There was definitely no one around for the big bang or the cesspool of life if it happened millions or billions of years ago. So all modern science is based on faith when it comes to the creation of the universe and everything in it.

That's a really simplistic view of science - "pics or it didn't happen"

 

[DadSmith]

But there is archeological evidence today that are observations, and the explanations for those observations go through the scientific process.

That so called evidence is still interpretation of what man thinks it is. That's all.
I had these arrangements with college professors and it boils down to a few men and what they believe it all means.
So it's do you believe what man says or what the Bible says.
It's all on how the "evidence" is interpreted, and the worldview of the interpreter.

 

[JettaKnight]

With the creation story, you first believe by faith. Maybe you find ways that new observations support what you already believe. And if there is no way to get an observation to support the belief, you reject the observation. That's essentially circular reasoning. But like I said, reasoning and science isn't the only way to arrive at a truth. If you believe something that ends up being true, it doesn't matter how you came to believe it. You believe your way. I believe mine. Hopefully we can coexist that way. I'd hate to be the recipient of a crusade.

Ultimately that's my problem with the Creation Research Institute - they have a clear and unwavering result and all their research goes to supporting that.

That's not science. Science requires a hypothesis and then the ability (and open mind) to prove or disprove it.

 

[JettaKnight]

YES to all of your questions.

I need observation or else it's just faith that it happened.