Russia vs. Ukraine Part 2

[asevans]

I don’t mind Ukraine staying independent. What the west was trying to do is let ukraine into nato then put cruise missiles tipped with nukes in eastern ukraine 10 min from Moscow. Don’t blame russia a bit if they go all the way to Poland.
Not sure if they can though.

 

[Hawkeye]

I don’t mind Ukraine staying independent. What the west was trying to do is let ukraine into nato then put cruise missiles tipped with nukes in eastern ukraine 10 min from Moscow. Don’t blame russia a bit if they go all the way to Poland.
Not sure if they can though.

Does NATO even have nuclear-armed cruise missiles? Pretty sure the TLAM-N was retired a decade ago.

 

[KellyinAvon]

Does NATO even have nuclear-armed cruise missiles? Pretty sure the TLAM-N was retired a decade ago.

The GLCMs (ground launched cruise missiles) went away with the (IIRC) START treaty back in the late-80s.

 

[jamil]

I thought the 1980’s called us back in 2012 and asked for their foreign policy back.

 

[bobzilla]

I don’t mind Ukraine staying independent. What the west was trying to do is let ukraine into nato then put cruise missiles tipped with nukes in eastern ukraine 10 min from Moscow. Don’t blame russia a bit if they go all the way to Poland.
Not sure if they can though.

So its OK to invade, destroy and plunder another nation because you might feel threatened about a weapon that hasnt been in use for several decades? Cool. Sounds like we need to just let all the nukes fly if people are this stupid. There is no justification for invading another country that has not threatened you... and that goes for someof our own policy.

 

[KG1]

Apparently according to the BINC (Blabbermouth -in-Chief) the US is running low on stock of 155 artillery munitions to send to Ukraine. Looks like it was part of the decision to send cluster bombs.

 

[Leadeye]

Last I heard most of the artillery ammo was being made offshore. The CB shells might be the last US made stuff left.

 

[actaeon277]

All these guys fighting over airplanes, and they neglect things like artillery

 

[Route 45]

 

[bobzilla]

well, that seems like a damn shame. Anyway... I think we are having tacos for dinner tonight.

 

[Route 45]

Turkey's Erdogan to back Sweden joining Nato - Stoltenberg

Turkey's president will support Sweden's bid to join Nato, alliance chief Jens Stoltenberg says

www.bbc.com

 

[Ark]

All these guys fighting over airplanes, and they neglect things like artillery

The one consistent thing everyone coming back from training and advising in Ukraine says is that Russia's artillery game is a juggernaut. American wonder weapons can't make up for 155s by the thousand.

Not that I think we should have emptied our stocks for Ukraine in the first place, but this is revealing how grossly unprepared the US is for attrition based land warfare. I guess we didn't think the low intensity of the GWOT era was a good enough opportunity to stockpile artillery rounds.

It's not like we didn't have 120 years of data on what full scale artillery consumption looks like.

 

[bobzilla]

The one consistent thing everyone coming back from training and advising in Ukraine says is that Russia's artillery game is a juggernaut. American wonder weapons can't make up for 155s by the thousand.

Not that I think we should have emptied our stocks for Ukraine in the first place, but this is revealing how grossly unprepared the US is for attrition based land warfare. I guess we didn't think the low intensity of the GWOT era was a good enough opportunity to stockpile artillery rounds.

It's not like we didn't have 120 years of data on what full scale artillery consumption looks like.

the other part is the US hasn't played static defense warfare since the early 50's on the Korean peninsula. We developed a different approach. Air dominance, smaller forces with better lethality, precision strikes to cripple their infrastructure. If the US was all in, completely conventional the russians would have been demolished IMO.

 

[DadSmith]

 

[DadSmith]

 

[Ark]

the other part is the US hasn't played static defense warfare since the early 50's on the Korean peninsula. We developed a different approach. Air dominance, smaller forces with better lethality, precision strikes to cripple their infrastructure. If the US was all in, completely conventional the russians would have been demolished IMO.

Yeah, I think we poured a whole lot more into air power and the expectation of seizing uncontested control of the skies over enemy forces. Something which has not been able to happen in Ukraine for either side.

It's actually pretty remarkable that things have been in this limbo of neither side being able to fully use air power for over a year. The helicopters do their thing close to the ground, lobbing munitions from behind the lines, and the fast movers are just launch platforms for long range standoff weapons. It doesn't seem like anyone is able to do American-style CAS at the front.

The US approach would, of course, lean heavily on stealth technology to waltz in and take the entire air defense system apart from top to bottom.

 

[actaeon277]

The one consistent thing everyone coming back from training and advising in Ukraine says is that Russia's artillery game is a juggernaut. American wonder weapons can't make up for 155s by the thousand.

Not that I think we should have emptied our stocks for Ukraine in the first place, but this is revealing how grossly unprepared the US is for attrition based land warfare. I guess we didn't think the low intensity of the GWOT era was a good enough opportunity to stockpile artillery rounds.

It's not like we didn't have 120 years of data on what full scale artillery consumption looks like.

 

[Ark]

View attachment 286321

Infantry holds objectives, tanks take objectives, artillery destroys objectives.

I hope somebody in the Pentagon is taking notes on the notion of attrition being outdated because trillion dollar wonder programs.

 

[BugI02]

For the time being, there is way too much money to be made on this bull**** for it to end soon.

My offer for $14B still stands....and is increasingly dirt cheap for anyone concerned about the cost of this bull****....but cost is not the concern....revenue is.

How much to whack Zelenskyyyy instead?

Can we pay in bitcoin?

 

[oze]

View attachment 286321

Holy crap. I never realized that Stalin loved the M4 tank so much!