Civil Religious Discussions : all things Christianity II

[ditcherman]

Is that your church? Because that man painted a big ole target on chest. RESPECT.

He looks all hip and cool, but speaks like my pastor - Christianity is hard, love is hard, you will lose on earth, but this is Christ's way. That's sort of sermon that makes idolators and casual Christians walk out.


Too many Christians want to take the sword instead of the cross.

Yes, my pastor. He tries and does a good job of speaking the truth in a relevant-to-today’s culture manner. It’s interesting to me to see how many young people will gravitate to someone who speaks the hard truth, when it has meaning behind it. They’re not looking for the easy way out, they want meaning, while many older people try to justify what they want as Gods will.

 

[foszoe]

I think we, not pointing at anyone in particular, we as a group are taking this thread in a direction that historically it hasn't taken. We've used it to talk doctrinal differences, biblical interpretations, etc but, being the thread is in the breakroom, we have avoided politics and religion.

I guess its a conversation we could have but we may run into a mod or two.

I admit I will tangentially touch on religion in the politics section. Especially when someone uses Christianity or scripture to support a position. For example, When Mike started using Render unto Caesar a few months back, I asked him point blank if he was a Christian, attended church, etc. When he refused to answer, i disengaged on discussing scripture with him. I try not to discuss scriptural interpretation outside those who claim to be Christian, a sort of pearls before swine thing. There is preaching, or kergyma, that should be Christ centric. Then there is the inner life of the Church, those things that come after one is united to Christ.

I have always cringed when I see politics creep into this thread.

So I will only wade a little bit into this conversation, like Ziggidy, I would have a hard time understanding how a Christian could vote for Harris, however I could also understand one not voting for Trump either. Some make it like this is the ultimate battle for good and evil on earth, this election. That battle was fought and won when Christ rose from the dead.

Some will try to make a distinction between that event and say "well yeah, but..." I say there is no but. The Kingdom of Heaven is at hand now. There is nothing we are going to do to hasten the end.

What I do know is that in the end times, good will be called evil and evil will be called good. That is certainly happening. There will also be a great Apostasy. That is where Trump's candidacy has been eye opening. The Christian leadership has overwhelmingly supported him and that is scary.

The devil comes as an angel in light and will deceive many. What is the best way to de Christianize? Do it without those who call themselves Christians even knowing it. After the assassination attempt. Seeing visions of the hand of God deflecting the bullet. Angels standing behind him, seeing all the memes and X posts surrounding these events. The distortion of Christianity into an umbrella big tent term is sure a good start towards an Apostasy that is unrecognized by those calling themselves Christian.

 

[foszoe]

Yes, my pastor. He tries and does a good job of speaking the truth in a relevant-to-today’s culture manner. It’s interesting to me to see how many young people will gravitate to someone who speaks the hard truth, when it has meaning behind it. They’re not looking for the easy way out, they want meaning, while many older people try to justify what they want as Gods will.

Will watch later tonight. Or at least listen too. I am a podcast kinda guy....is it slideshow material or mostly audio?

 

[ditcherman]

Will watch later tonight. Or at least listen too. I am a podcast kinda guy....is it slideshow material or mostly audio?

There are scriptures and quotes up on the tv but nothing that he doesn’t say, so totally listenable. I’m with you on the video stuff most of the time.

 

[foszoe]

They’re not looking for the easy way out, they want meaning, while many older people try to justify what they want as Gods will.

I am hearing this a lot in our parish. We are growing fairly fast for an Orthodox parish. Several families baptized this year and several catechumens. We also are the sponsor parish for the OCF (Orthodox Christian Fellowship) at Purdue. They are showing up in force. People are looking for bedrock. Something that doesn't change. Something ancient and tested. Have 5 Purdue Students in catechumenate right now. Can't hardly walk in the fellowship hall during agape meals after Sunday Divine Liturgy.

Its a good problem to have.

 

[foszoe]

There are scriptures and quotes up on the tv but nothing that he doesn’t say, so totally listenable. I’m with you on the video stuff most of the time.

I have a long commute so I listen to ancientfaithradio.com podcasts for about 2 1/2 hours when I have to be in the office.

 

[ditcherman]

I think we, not pointing at anyone in particular, we as a group are taking this thread in a direction that historically it hasn't taken. We've used it to talk doctrinal differences, biblical interpretations, etc but, being the thread is in the breakroom, we have avoided politics and religion.

I guess its a conversation we could have but we may run into a mod or two.

I admit I will tangentially touch on religion in the politics section. Especially when someone uses Christianity or scripture to support a position. For example, When Mike started using Render unto Caesar a few months back, I asked him point blank if he was a Christian, attended church, etc. When he refused to answer, i disengaged on discussing scripture with him. I try not to discuss scriptural interpretation outside those who claim to be Christian, a sort of pearls before swine thing. There is preaching, or kergyma, that should be Christ centric. Then there is the inner life of the Church, those things that come after one is united to Christ.

I have always cringed when I see politics creep into this thread.

So I will only wade a little bit into this conversation, like Ziggidy, I would have a hard time understanding how a Christian could vote for Harris, however I could also understand one not voting for Trump either. Some make it like this is the ultimate battle for good and evil on earth, this election. That battle was fought and won when Christ rose from the dead.

Some will try to make a distinction between that event and say "well yeah, but..." I say there is no but. The Kingdom of Heaven is at hand now. There is nothing we are going to do to hasten the end.

What I do know is that in the end times, good will be called evil and evil will be called good. That is certainly happening. There will also be a great Apostasy. That is where Trump's candidacy has been eye opening. The Christian leadership has overwhelmingly supported him and that is scary.

The devil comes as an angel in light and will deceive many. What is the best way to de Christianize? Do it without those who call themselves Christians even knowing it. After the assassination attempt. Seeing visions of the hand of God deflecting the bullet. Angels standing behind him, seeing all the memes and X posts surrounding these events. The distortion of Christianity into an umbrella big tent term is sure a good start towards an Apostasy that is unrecognized by those calling themselves Christian.

We might not be of the same theology or have a similar worship style but we sure agree on this. Seeing those memes just made me sick. I think that’s the political discussion we’re having here, church first, Christ first, politics down the list.

I’ve had a few replies started but didn’t finish, considering what the nature of this thread is, knowing I could derail it. At the same time, I believe we are all more alike than we are different and we can handle this discussion.

I do agree with @Ziggidy with all his ‘how could you’ questions; I’ll vote for Trump but not as the savior that many equate him to be, not even as the chosen that many think he is.
If he was chosen it wouldn’t even be a race.

We’re living in the upside down.

ETA! And the youngsters know it, and want something better!

 

[ditcherman]

I am hearing this a lot in our parish. We are growing fairly fast for an Orthodox parish. Several families baptized this year and several catechumens. We also are the sponsor parish for the OCF (Orthodox Christian Fellowship) at Purdue. They are showing up in force. People are looking for bedrock. Something that doesn't change. Something ancient and tested. Have 5 Purdue Students in catechumenate right now. Can't hardly walk in the fellowship hall during agape meals after Sunday Divine Liturgy.

Its a good problem to have.

I’ve heard a little bit about deconstructionism, I think it could be a hot button subject but my basic understanding of it is that when someone gets through deconstruction, they’re probably looking for something that resembles orthodoxy. Am I way off here?

 

[JettaKnight]

Yes, my pastor. He tries and does a good job of speaking the truth in a relevant-to-today’s culture manner. It’s interesting to me to see how many young people will gravitate to someone who speaks the hard truth, when it has meaning behind it. They’re not looking for the easy way out, they want meaning, while many older people try to justify what they want as Gods will.

I used to work with InterVarsity Christian Fellowship a lot - I loved being with Christian college students especially in today's world. They didn't have all the baggage we old people have. They didn't care so much about the status quo as they did for the love of Christ.

It was challenging to me... I miss those days.

 

[JettaKnight]

I’ve heard a little bit about deconstructionism, I think it could be a hot button subject but my basic understanding of it is that when someone gets through deconstruction, they’re probably looking for something that resembles orthodoxy. Am I way off here?

There's a hundred different ways to "deconstruct" it could just be that time of questioning almost every Christian goes through all the way to full on walking away. So whenever someone says, "Deconstruct" I have to stop them and ask them what they mean by that so we can be on the same page.

 

[ditcherman]

I used to work with InterVarsity Christian Fellowship a lot - I loved being with Christian college students especially in today's world. They didn't have all the baggage we old people have. They didn't care so much about the status quo as they did for the love of Christ.

It was challenging to me... I miss those days.

I’ve had some experiences with young people that truly gave me hope for the future, unlike the usual vibe I get from angry old men shaking their fist at the sky, hopeless.

 

[foszoe]

I’ve heard a little bit about deconstructionism, I think it could be a hot button subject but my basic understanding of it is that when someone gets through deconstruction, they’re probably looking for something that resembles orthodoxy. Am I way off here?

I honestly don't know what deconstructionism is. When I converted I sort of still kept up on Protestant themes but as I have immersed myself in Orthodoxy, you guys are my biggest exposure to modern Protestantism

I would have to look it up to answer.

What i see is a desire to worship and believe like the early Church as a reaction to the myriad choices available today. Also they don't want relativism.

PS went to channel saw Catholicism one and am halfway through listening to that one. I will go to politics afterwards

 

[foszoe]

Do any of you use Logos.com software? Probably late in the game as it's only through tomorrow but if not, may want to take a look at it. They are going to a subscription model so they have their last edition logos 10 on sale.

I have a coupon code that's good for 100$ off the 50% off sale.

Elevate Your Bible Study for Less

Discover powerful insights into the Bible. Craft sermons, prepare research, and dive deep into the Word. Get $100 off your first Logos base package purchase

logos.refr.cc

 

[foszoe]

Okay "watching" political now

 

[JettaKnight]

Do any of you use Logos.com software? Probably late in the game as it's only through tomorrow but if not, may want to take a look at it. They are going to a subscription model so they have their last edition logos 10 on sale.

I have a coupon code that's good for 100$ off the 50% off sale.

Elevate Your Bible Study for Less

Discover powerful insights into the Bible. Craft sermons, prepare research, and dive deep into the Word. Get $100 off your first Logos base package purchase

logos.refr.cc

No, I don't think I'd use it enough.

 

[DadSmith]

Okay "watching" political now

So you think God's covenant with Abraham and his descendants is mutilation?
Figured better move this to religious thread.

 

[foszoe]

So you think God's covenant with Abraham and his descendants is mutilation?
Figured better move this to religious thread.

I asked you if you thought it was.

 

[foszoe]

Partisanship is Different from Politics
By definition, the saints – and especially the clergy – must not become involved in partisanship. Partisanship is different from politics, since partisanship involves joining an identifiable political faction – i.e. a political party – and thereby identifying it with the views of the Church, or the will of God. This applies also to the clergy championing the cause of one nation as a faction against another nation: this is a heresy called phyletism, in which the views of the Church and the will of God are identified with the interests and good of one nation. This is simply another flavor of partisanship, and it denies the universal saving message of the Gospel: that Christ came into the world to save people from all factions, and from all nations.

Thought this was relevant to the discussion, whether it is the US or Israel.

 

[Ziggidy]

Ziggidy, I respect that, I really do. That's what makes this election so darn tough. We have an open progressive on one side, and an immoral, psychopath on the other side.

IMHO, neither is moral, and real repentance isn't going to start in the Oval Office.



My Christianity is in no way dependent on who I vote for. Maybe I used to think that in the age of the Moral Majority - but how well did that work out for us. I remember the "Character Matters" years of Clinton - no self-respecting Christian could ever vote for such a disgusting man! Then Trump comes along and says, "hold my beer!" So what changed?

As a Protestant, I firmly believe that salvation and sanctification is a personal matter. As such, what goes on around me is less important than what's in my heart.

A "godless society" cannot be enforced or abrogated. Only the power of Christ and Church can make that change. And someone that can't exhibit the fruits of the spirit has no ability to make that change. Theocracies may look Godly, but it's a veneer - there's no Spirit underneath, just anger, legalism, tribalism, and superiority.

There's a ton about what Trump promotes that's not Christian, but I don't think it's healthy for me to go off on those here. But, do you think Trump will do anything about those things you listed? Hint: What did he do about those in his last term?


Again looking back at the Moral Majority years I feel that a moral foundation cannot come about though political means, but only through Christ and the Church.

I have "my opinion" regarding allot being said here and I do agree with much said. One thing I will comment on. I too am protestant. I also believe in salvation and sanctification, the latter being a life long process. I also believe it is a personal matter, but personal as in a personal relationship with Christ. IMO that does not mean we live our faith as a"personal matter" but rather should be an outgoing expression of my faith. Doing what the Lord tells me, be a light, a beacon of hope and salt. Go out to all corners and preach the good news. Again, IMO that means we should life the life in all we do, including voting.

Yes, it is up to the Lord to change the society but it is up to us (through the great commission and more) to be tools for the Lord. Some may never hear the gospel; if "we" are told to tell the world, who is responsible? Same with morality. If we are not the light, hope, salt then who is responsible for spreading the good news and preserving it?

We are also told we are in a battle between evil and righteousness. You and I are told to put on the armor and be ready for battle...you and I are told this. We are told to pray for our government and such. Why are we told to pray, be ready for battle, be the light, hope and salt? We are TOLD to do and be these things. God uses us to do His work. Does He need us, NO, but He tells us to do His work here on earth.

In ending I will say I know this is a very difficult topic to put our head around. I know so called christians that support abortion, it's painful to hear that. I know christians that will vote for Harris because she is a woman, that is also painful to hear. Maybe Trump is not "better" than Harris but he does "appear" to have a higher moral standing. For many of us, this is not a vote for a better person but rather a vote against an evil person. Just my opinion.

Peace

 

[foszoe]

I have "my opinion" regarding allot being said here and I do agree with much said. One thing I will comment on. I too am protestant. I also believe in salvation and sanctification, the latter being a life long process. I also believe it is a personal matter, but personal as in a personal relationship with Christ. IMO that does not mean we live our faith as a"personal matter" but rather should be an outgoing expression of my faith. Doing what the Lord tells me, be a light, a beacon of hope and salt. Go out to all corners and preach the good news. Again, IMO that means we should life the life in all we do, including voting.

Yes, it is up to the Lord to change the society but it is up to us (through the great commission and more) to be tools for the Lord. Some may never hear the gospel; if "we" are told to tell the world, who is responsible? Same with morality. If we are not the light, hope, salt then who is responsible for spreading the good news and preserving it?

We are also told we are in a battle between evil and righteousness. You and I are told to put on the armor and be ready for battle...you and I are told this. We are told to pray for our government and such. Why are we told to pray, be ready for battle, be the light, hope and salt? We are TOLD to do and be these things. God uses us to do His work. Does He need us, NO, but He tells us to do His work here on earth.

In ending I will say I know this is a very difficult topic to put our head around. I know so called christians that support abortion, it's painful to hear that. I know christians that will vote for Harris because she is a woman, that is also painful to hear. Maybe Trump is not "better" than Harris but he does "appear" to have a higher moral standing. For many of us, this is not a vote for a better person but rather a vote against an evil person. Just my opinion.

Peace

And a well stated, thought out opinion