Colin Kaepernick protests the Anthem

[GodFearinGunTotin]

They weigh in on freedom of speech all the time. They fine players for not talking to the press, for crying out loud. They not only limit free speech, they COMPEL it!

So the point remains, the NFL is choosing to be political. They have the right to do that. But let's at least recognize it for what it is.

They fine players for expressing themselves after a big play too. The NFL has lots to say about freedom of speech of their players. Remember when they started coming down hard on the taunting and touchdown dances and the like? Yeah, people found that stuff distasteful so they stepped up and pretty much squelched it.

 

[Birds Away]

They fine players for expressing themselves after a big play too. The NFL has lots to say about freedom of speech of their players. Remember when they started coming down hard on the taunting and touchdown dances and the like? Yeah, people found that stuff distasteful so they stepped up and pretty much squelched it.

That's within the scope of the game. I really think that is apples and oranges when compared to a protest about a social issue and one conducted prior to the kickoff. I'm sure opinions on that will vary.

 

[223 Gunner]

Is there really a racial component to your expectations of the presidency? It appears, at least in how you wrote your post, that identity politics (i.e. your view of your whiteness), played a large role in why you chose to support Trump. You say "you, (sic)" and people like you, "middle class white men" felt as if Obama didn't represent you, and were demonized by him during his time in office. How so?
I can respect your complaint, and commend you for being so candid.

Sorry for the delayed reply. I voted for Trump because I had no choice really. I sure as h*ll was not casting a vote for Hillary. In my own opinion, I saw the lines of racism in America finally starting to blur until Obama was elected. I personally think he had a very large part in dividing our Country as far as race goes.
I personally wanted Marco Rubio as our President.
I haven't had time to read through all the other posts in this thread, but wanted to get back to you.
I don't think Obama demonized me personally, but he did alienate most gun owners and a lot of white people when he went to bat for Tarvon Martin, Freddy Gray, and some the other people that in my opinion got what they had coming.
I have watched all the videos on the police shootings of black men. Only two in my opinion were not justified. Yet the media in their never ending quest to keep racism alive, have to continually broad cast these stories, knowing full well it will get emotions stirred up.

Funny how Black Lives Matter is never labeled the racist hate group that they are. And they do a h*ll of a lot more damage than a Klan rally does.
And NO I do NOT support the Klan or any other hate group.
I am against a biased media, and Trump like him or hate him, at least has the balls to call people out, like the "fake news".

 

[churchmouse]

Sorry for the delayed reply. I voted for Trump because I had no choice really. I sure as h*ll was not casting a vote for Hillary. In my own opinion, I saw the lines of racism in America finally starting to blur until Obama was elected. I personally think he had a very large part in dividing our Country as far as race goes.
I personally wanted Marco Rubio as our President.
I haven't had time to read through all the other posts in this thread, but wanted to get back to you.
I don't think Obama demonized me personally, but he did alienate most gun owners and a lot of white people when he went to bat for Tarvon Martin, Freddy Gray, and some the other people that in my opinion got what they had coming.
I have watched all the videos on the police shootings of black men. Only two in my opinion were not justified. Yet the media in their never ending quest to keep racism alive, have to continually broad cast these stories, knowing full well it will get emotions stirred up.

Funny how Black Lives Matter is never labeled the racist hate group that they are. And they do a h*ll of a lot more damage than a Klan rally does.
And NO I do support the Klan or any other hate group.
I am against a biased media, and Trump like him or hate him, at least has the balls to call people out, like the "fake news".

Might want to edit the line stating support. It reads you do.

 

[JTScribe]

This is pretty big. Wonder how much press it gets?

The video is out there and Fox has covered it.

Steelers coach Mike Tomlin raps Alejandro Villanueva for standing for national anthem | Fox News

 

[Kutnupe14]

They weigh in on freedom of speech all the time. They fine players for not talking to the press, for crying out loud. They not only limit free speech, they COMPEL it!

So the point remains, the NFL is choosing to be political. They have the right to do that. But let's at least recognize it for what it is.

Ok, but that's not the point I was making, and I suspect you know this. Where has the NFL said that it was not getting involved in free speech or politics? Hell, up until very recently he NFL had a tax exempt status. I assume we can agree that they weren't just handed that without some significant lobbying.

 

[jamil]

The video is out there and Fox has covered it.

Steelers coach Mike Tomlin raps Alejandro Villanueva for standing for national anthem | Fox News

The title is a bit misleading. The article says Tomlin told the team he'd support whatever they wanted to do as a team. The only thing they could narrowly agree to was just not to participate as a team. So it's not that Tomlin raps Villaneuva for standing during the national anthem, it's that he didn't abide by the agreement to stay with the team.

I'm not disrespecting Villaneuva, I hope he made it clear to the team that no matter what they decided, he was going to stand. But I'd think less of him if he agreed to abide by the team vote, proceeded to vote with the team, and then defied them when he didn't get his way.

 

[Expat]

The title is a bit misleading. The article says Tomlin told the team he'd support whatever they wanted to do as a team. The only thing they could narrowly agree to was just not to participate as a team. So it's not that Tomlin raps Villaneuva for standing during the national anthem, it's that he didn't abide by the agreement to stay with the team.

I'm not disrespecting Villaneuva, I hope he made it clear to the team that no matter what they decided, he was going to stand. But I'd think less of him if he agreed to abide by the team vote, proceeded to vote with the team, and then defied them when he didn't get his way.

Maybe he thought he could protest against the National Anthem, but when it came right down to it, he simply couldn't do it.

 

[SheepDog4Life]

To equate the kneeling with disrespect is just plain brain-dead. It's about as respectful a way to protest as is possible - no gesturing, no turning the other way, just quietly taking a knee - it sends a message without being disrespectful. How many players have said anything suggesting that they disrespect anyone who fought and died for our country?

I'm also offended by the idea that anyone should be forced to behave in a certain way because of "freedom". This is the direct antithesis of freedom. Disagreement does not equal disrespect.

The idea that one leaves their constitutional rights at the workplace door needs to go. This form of protest has absolutely nothing to do with how a player does his job. And when we a divisive current occupant who enables and encourages bigotry and hatred, we need more people to stand up (or in this case, kneel down) and be counted.

IMO, #TakeAKnee doubles down on "G*d d*amn America" and makes it "F*ck America". It is THEIR 1st Amendment right to do so...

But, here's my 1st Amendment response: "F*ck the NFL". I'm done supporting America-hating millionaires with my dollars and time.

 

[jamil]

Ok, but that's not the point I was making, and I suspect you know this. Where has the NFL said that it was not getting involved in free speech or politics? Hell, up until very recently he NFL had a tax exempt status. I assume we can agree that they weren't just handed that without some significant lobbying.

Right, but my point was only that the NFL is indeed choosing to make it political. And it's not because of where the fan support is. A recent poll shows Americans really haven't changed their minds about this since last year. A large majority still thinks it's disrespectful not to stand for the national anthem. Notwithstanding that established patriotic antiquate allows us to sit on our couches or refresh our craft beers during.

 

[Kutnupe14]

IMO, #TakeAKnee doubles down on "G*d d*amn America" and makes it "F*ck America". It is THEIR 1st Amendment right to do so...

But, here's my 1st Amendment response: "F*ck the NFL". I'm done supporting America-hating millionaires with my dollars and time.

There's a bunch of people current and former military members, and other Americans, that disagree. The oldest, I've seen so far, a 90-something WW2 vet, who took a knee himself.

 

[d.kaufman]

 

[jamil]

Yeah, who says cheaters never prosper?

Did Brady cheat last year at 39 years old?

 

[churchmouse]

Did Brady cheat last year at 39 years old?

Not so we have caught them yet.
You aint cheating if you aint been caught.

 

[jamil]

There's a bunch of people current and former military members, and other Americans, that disagree. The oldest, I've seen so far, a 90-something WW2 vet, who took a knee himself.

Before or after the president's remarks? I've seen a lot more protesting after. The polls still show a large majority of Americans don't agree with protesting this way. They think it's disrespectful. This way is beyond overton's window. So people just won't put up with it.

Judging from the numbers protesting after Trump's weigh-in, the kneelers seem to care a hell of a lot more about defying the president for being a dick, than for what the original protest was about. This is why you don't politicize non-political events. Overton's window will kick your ass. It's like Obama politicizing the deaths of 26 children and teachers so he could peddle gun control. He lost that battle right then. Kaepernick is losing this one. Who the hell even talks about what he was protesting? The whole conversation is about the propriety of protesting during a patriotic tradition.

I think if Kaepernick really does care about the issue he's protesting, he'd call a timeout and stop this nonsense. Find a different, less controversial, more overton-window friendly way to bring attention to it. Sure. You get a lot of people to listen to you when you disrespect an American tradition, but all they hear is that you're disrespecting their values.

 

[SheepDog4Life]

There's a bunch of people current and former military members, and other Americans, that disagree. The oldest, I've seen so far, a 90-something WW2 vet, who took a knee himself.

Good for them, that's their right.

However, EVERY friend, family member and acquaintance of mine (we're talking dozens) who served feels differently. They put their lives on the line for this country and the IDEALS that the flag represents. Disrespecting the flag, the anthem and the country as a whole is disrespecting them and their service.

Like I said, IT IS THEIR RIGHT to disrespect the country and the flag. And it is my right to treat them as persona non grata.

The NFL is "dead to me."

 

[printcraft]

Went and saw Roger Waters last Thursday night.
Awesome concert, sounded great!

When he got to "pigs" from animals it went off the rails.
The second half of the concert turned into a "resist" Trump bashing fest.
Totally blew the experience, I didn't go to be lectured to politically.
Had I known that was going to happen I would not have bought those tickets.

 

[Kutnupe14]

Good for them, that's their right.

However, EVERY friend, family member and acquaintance of mine (we're talking dozens) who served feels differently. They put their lives on the line for this country and the IDEALS that the flag represents. Disrespecting the flag, the anthem and the country as a whole is disrespecting them and their service.

Like I said, IT IS THEIR RIGHT to disrespect the country and the flag. And it is my right to treat them as persona non grata.

The NFL is "dead to me."

Every friend and even every acquaintance? Forgive me, if I think you are being hyperbolic, because it's either that you don't know many people. I guess it's possible, but it seems unlikely, especially given that by the nature of someone being an acquaintance, you don't know them all that well.

 

[JTScribe]

The title is a bit misleading. The article says Tomlin told the team he'd support whatever they wanted to do as a team. The only thing they could narrowly agree to was just not to participate as a team. So it's not that Tomlin raps Villaneuva for standing during the national anthem, it's that he didn't abide by the agreement to stay with the team.

I'm not disrespecting Villaneuva, I hope he made it clear to the team that no matter what they decided, he was going to stand. But I'd think less of him if he agreed to abide by the team vote, proceeded to vote with the team, and then defied them when he didn't get his way.

I just think it's pretty bush league for a guy who's done nothing meaningful in his life to publicly call out a decorated West Point grad for standing up for the anthem.

 

[JettaKnight]

I might stand (at home) if we replaced the Star Spangled Banner with a good song.


Of all the problems with the NFL, this ranks below the gawd-awful commercials I'm forced to endure during each and every game. It's the same eight ads on repeat. Worst offenders: Apple, Chevrolet (stupid "real people") and Microsoft .... thunder, here comes the thunder, th, th, th, th, thunder...