Why does FLORIDA HIGHWAY PATROL need this ???

[Denny347]

How about DoE's IFVs with the miniguns at Oak Ridge?

Oak Ridge security officer struck by bullet fragments when Gatling gun malfunctions | Frank Munger's Atomic City Underground | knoxnews.com

9/11! Oh, here are your toys.

Federal DOE is WAY above my pay grade. They are sensitive about their nuclear facilities. They are security and have no arrest powers that I am aware of. Perimeter security. I would not classify them as LEO's.

 

[dross]

Stop the presses!

Denny, you made some very good points that I hadn't considered.

That said, do you guys understand at all our concern about how commonplace military-type tactics equipment and uniforms might affect the way police perform their duties?

 

[Denny347]

I really can't think of the need for the "Peacemaker" and its belt fed .50 cal.

Sheriff Lott's New Toy - Hit & Run : Reason Magazine

Peacemaker=armored vehicle=OK. Armored vehicles should remain unarmed other than the occupants inside. They are to transport personnel into/out of a dangerous environment. They are a vehicle...maybe scary but a vehicle none-the-less. It can no more hurt you than any other vehicle, it would have to run you over.
Belt-fed machine gun I cannot/will not defend. That is scary. But it would be great fun at the range ...you buy the ammo. I think this photo does us more harm than good. Belt-fed machine gun and all the guys pointing their rifles at the camera...UGH.

 

[Denny347]

Stop the presses!

Denny, you made some very good points that I hadn't considered.

That said, do you guys understand at all our concern about how commonplace military-type tactics equipment and uniforms might affect the way police perform their duties?

Indeed. I just posted a response above that might clarify my position.

 

[rambone]

As stated, I agree with you that there is nothing wrong with logical oversight of monies spent and/or equipment obtained. Punishing someone for the actions of someone else isn't logical.

Punishing? Who's on trial? I thought we were talking about budgets and enforcement policies.

Nobody's punishing you. Police shouldn't feel entitled to receive the coolest model of vehicle to drive around. The community provides equipment that they can justify in their city and in their budget. This provision is subject to constant scrutiny.

Like Public Servant said, if you want a tank, go buy one yourself.

 

[jsharmon7]

That said, do you guys understand at all our concern about how commonplace military-type tactics equipment and uniforms might affect the way police perform their duties?

Yes, I do understand. I simply disagree with the slippery slope theory.

 

[Destro]

Governmental employees are not using IFVs to protect themselves but to take down chicken breeders. Something that can be done by Barney Fife, but then there are no cool toys to play with.

Easy, Stallone, you don't need the toys, you need the rationalization . . . Chinese star . . .

looks like iron and wheels to me, wheres the turret? wheres the TOW missle?...should we ban "Assualt Clips" from LE also?

 

[UncleMike]

Uncle Mike, yes, that is THE Steven Seagal raiding perp that committed crimes against chickens. Instead of using Aikido martial arts, he drove through a wall with a tank.

It made news all around the world and not just the Reason magazine article I cited earlier.

Check out the video with the reinforced AFV platoon. Is that First Cav? No, it's the Sheriff!

Steven Seagal goes under siege to bust cockfighting ring | Media | guardian.co.uk

Here's the Daily Mail where I read about the Sheriff and the Hollywood actor with the tank, protecting his citizens by overrunning some chickens. Take that, chicken, stay down, stay down!

Protecting our community by intimidating farm animals!

SWAT team, armoured vehicles and Steven Segal in Arizona cockfighting raid | Mail Online

Apparently they didn't want to risk Mr Segals life using him in a heavily armed confrontation.

The government should be required to defend everything they do continually.

Magic words such as "9/11" or "officer safety" should not shortcut scrutiny of their budgets or their actions.

Yup!!
That'll keep the Attorneys rolling in dough!!

How about DoE's IFVs with the miniguns at Oak Ridge?

Oak Ridge security officer struck by bullet fragments when Gatling gun malfunctions | Frank Munger's Atomic City Underground | knoxnews.com

9/11! Oh, here are your toys.

And now you're opposed to defending our Nuclear Power plants with whatever means are at our disposal???
How about if we just train the guards to use unusually harsh language against any saboteurs that show up to blow the plants to smithereens.
That'll teach em.

Tax money is money procured by violence. It's expenditure must be a big deal.

IFVs represent the militiarization of our police, something that merits consideration.

IFVs will be misused on the citizens and on the chickens.

Again you seem awfully sure that this will happen.
(This must be some insider Attorney information that the rest of us aren't smart enough to handle. )
Honestly, if i had insider Cop information that the Government was actively plotting to take away all rights and put every dissenter in a concentration camp, I'd share it with INGO.
So may we be privy to your secret source for this ominous prediction?

 

[Denny347]

Like Public Servant said, if you want a tank, go buy one yourself.

We are not allowed to have a tank.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

I have yet to hear your plan of action if our armored vehicles and SWAT are removed. You seem to speak with authority, please enlighten me.

We can talk about SWAT. I'm not personally against SWAT.

Toys, not so hot on. The concept of SWAT, not really upset about (deployment against failure to appear for Minor in a Tavern, no).

My plan of action if your toys are gone? Well, you walk up to the door of the chicken breeder, knock on the door and serve the search warrant or arrest the chicken farmer, depending on what the court order says. Make Hollywood wait at the station.

QUESTION: How should I approach a position with one or more shooters firing 7.62x39, pinning me behind cover or worse yet, my patrol car? How would you have rescued the wounded in the Hollywood shootout while under fire?

I woudldn't be doing stuff that got me shot at by multiple people with carbines.

If you are referencing the Hollywood shootout of 1997 in California, the police shot the bank robbers who were shooting at them. That seems an effective response.

 

[Destro]

Tax money is money procured by violence. It's expenditure must be a big deal.

IFVs represent the militiarization of our police, something that merits consideration.

IFVs will be misused on the citizens and on the chickens.

keep misrepresenting facts...the brady bunch would be proud

 

[Destro]

Stop the presses!

Denny, you made some very good points that I hadn't considered.

That said, do you guys understand at all our concern about how commonplace military-type tactics equipment and uniforms might affect the way police perform their duties?

firemen wear adges, BDU's and helmets too....beware

 

[jsharmon7]

I woudldn't be doing stuff that got me shot at by multiple people with carbines.

You mean like traffic stops and serving warrants?

 

[level.eleven]

Peacemaker=armored vehicle=OK. Armored vehicles should remain unarmed other than the occupants inside. They are to transport personnel into/out of a dangerous environment. They are a vehicle...maybe scary but a vehicle none-the-less. It can no more hurt you than any other vehicle, it would have to run you over.
Belt-fed machine gun I cannot/will not defend. That is scary. But it would be great fun at the range ...you buy the ammo. I think this photo does us more harm than good. Belt-fed machine gun and all the guys pointing their rifles at the camera...UGH.

Sure, until you strap an LRAD to the top and drive it down Main St.

 

[dross]

firemen wear adges, BDU's and helmets too....beware

"Adges? Adges!? We don't need no stinking adges!

 

[Denny347]

I woudldn't be doing stuff that got me shot at by multiple people with carbines.

If you are referencing the Hollywood shootout of 1997 in California, the police shot the bank robbers who were shooting at them. That seems an effective response.

Oh good lord. Read it nice and S L O W ...IF YOU WERE ME, WHAT WOULD YOU HAVE DONE? I guess you missed the part where the police commandeered an armored vehicle and rescued those that were bleeding to death (police and non-police alike) while taking fire. BTW, one shot himself in the head and the other died while waiting for an ambulance. He bled out.

 

[Denny347]

Sure, until you strap an LRAD to the top and drive it down Main St.

For what purpose? Riot? I am not aware of ANY local department having that technology. Maybe I am misinformed.

 

[Destro]

If you are referencing the Hollywood shootout of 1997 in California, the police shot the bank robbers who were shooting at them. That seems an effective response.

I wonder how much death and destruction might have been prevented if the officers had something better than a S&W Model 15 vs. an AKM?

 

[jsharmon7]

You can quabble over WHO has the equipment all you want, you're still advocating against having access to legitimate equipment simply because someone MAY misuse it, and that it looks scary. It's the same argument the Brady campaign uses, plain and simple. There isn't much else I can say about this topic.

 

[NYFelon]

You mean like traffic stops and serving warrants?

exaggeration much?

Statistically speaking, how often are officers shot at during routine traffic stops and warrant services? I wonder if that data has ever been compiled? Probably not, but I thik it'd make an interesting study.