To mask or not to mask....That is the question. Part II

[NKBJ]

Just as definitive as the previous discussions, perhaps there should be a yes / no poll on whether the mask kept people from getting the bank bug.

 

[Timjoebillybob]

Let's go back up-thread, then, shall we? Roll tape: "Classroom rule, have to wear a mask. Not saying I agree with it, but that's the rule."

That's what you said, and what I was replying to. As stated, the implication is that masks have to be worn because mask-wearing is a "classroom rule." If there are alternate interpretations, I'd love to hear them.


You know what's funny here? This, right here, is what an actual straw man argument looks like. Nowhere did I equate wearing masks in schools to the Nazis. And bonus points for using a straw man to make a specious claim of invoking a straw man. Well-played.


And so we're back to conflating the symptomatic with the non-symptomatic.

Someone showing Covid symptoms should be at home, away from other people, not in school (or anywhere else), wearing a mask or otherwise.


One is an inherent distraction. The other is not. Millions of students have attended classes for decades maskless; the lack of a mask is not inherently a distraction.


Cool! What else can we make an arbitrary part of the dress code? How about burkas? How about a sign that says, "I am a colonial occupier"?

Yep, that was the implication. Please show where I ever implied that anything claimed to be a classroom rule was fair game?

Classroom rule: wear a Gold Star. Not saying I agree with it, but that's the rule...

Never compared? Then what exactly pray tell did you mean by this? And hell, you didn't even warm up to it. It was the first thing right off the bat.

True if you have symptoms of covid you should stay home, but that wasn't specifically about covid. That rule has been in place for much longer than covid 19 has been around. And is that making health decisions for the child or not? Maybe my kid has been feeling fine and has been fever free for only 12 hrs, shouldn't it be my decision to send my kid to school? After all they are currently asymptomatic...

And millions of students have been around people with ostentatious hair color for years without a problem. How is a different hair color an inherent distraction? I'd say large breasted teen age girls would be more of an inherent distraction for most teen age boys, should they be required to wear a binder?

And I'd say not wearing a mask depending could be considered an inherent distraction as much as just about anything else, if everyone is required to wear one, and a couple of kids are violating that rule don't you think it could be distracting? Other kids wondering why they are allowed to get away with flaunting school rules?

Well, at the local schools here are some of the dress code rules, no holes in clothing, no spandex/yoga pants unless covered by skirt/shorts that meet the arbitrary length, no skirts or shorts unless they meet an arbitrary length and looseness, and clothing/hair/etc "must not be offensive to school purposes", not sure what else of if that is current. It was within the past couple of years. And who determines "offensive" isn't that almost by definition arbitrary?

Sure if they can come up with a non religious reason for a burka, they would probably have to call it something else though. How is it different than mandatory length/color/pattern,etc, for skirts/pants/shirts/socks/shoes that some schools require for their uniform?

 

[chipbennett]

Yep, that was the implication. Please show where I ever implied that anything claimed to be a classroom rule was fair game?

You stated that, because it was a classroom rule, it must be followed. If you wish to add further context to that statement, I certainly welcome it.

Never compared? Then what exactly pray tell did you mean by this? And hell, you didn't even warm up to it. It was the first thing right off the bat.

The point was both implicitly obvious, and explicitly articulated: just because something is a "classroom rule" is not sufficient reason that it must be followed; and as a corollary: declaring something a "classroom rule" is not sufficient justification for any and every dictate.

Nowhere, in either articulation of the point, is masking compared to the Nazis. (Which is why claiming such is, in fact, a straw man argument.)

True if you have symptoms of covid you should stay home, but that wasn't specifically about covid. That rule has been in place for much longer than covid 19 has been around. And is that making health decisions for the child or not? Maybe my kid has been feeling fine and has been fever free for only 12 hrs, shouldn't it be my decision to send my kid to school? After all they are currently asymptomatic...

No, it is not making health decisions for your child. Your child was sick - i.e. symptomatic. Rules around return to school after being in a contagious state are wholly appropriate.

The key difference here is evidence that the child in question was sick/symptomatic/contagious.

And millions of students have been around people with ostentatious hair color for years without a problem. How is a different hair color an inherent distraction? I'd say large breasted teen age girls would be more of an inherent distraction for most teen age boys, should they be required to wear a binder?

This... actually supports my position.

And I'd say not wearing a mask depending could be considered an inherent distraction as much as just about anything else, if everyone is required to wear one, and a couple of kids are violating that rule don't you think it could be distracting? Other kids wondering why they are allowed to get away with flaunting school rules?

I will concede that teachers, administrators, and other students could create disruptions. Doing so is their choice. Not wearing a mask is not, in any way, inherently a distraction.

Well, at the local schools here are some of the dress code rules, no holes in clothing, no spandex/yoga pants unless covered by skirt/shorts that meet the arbitrary length, no skirts or shorts unless they meet an arbitrary length and looseness, and clothing/hair/etc "must not be offensive to school purposes", not sure what else of if that is current. It was within the past couple of years. And who determines "offensive" isn't that almost by definition arbitrary?

Sure if they can come up with a non religious reason for a burka, they would probably have to call it something else though. How is it different than mandatory length/color/pattern,etc, for skirts/pants/shirts/socks/shoes that some schools require for their uniform?

We...don't seem to be in disagreement here. Dress code/decorum rules must be within reason, as I've stated several times.

 

[indyartisan]

Masking kids is child abuse.
Change my mind.

 

[Timjoebillybob]

You stated that, because it was a classroom rule, it must be followed. If you wish to add further context to that statement, I certainly welcome it.


The point was both implicitly obvious, and explicitly articulated: just because something is a "classroom rule" is not sufficient reason that it must be followed; and as a corollary: declaring something a "classroom rule" is not sufficient justification for any and every dictate.

Nowhere, in either articulation of the point, is masking compared to the Nazis. (Which is why claiming such is, in fact, a straw man argument.)


No, it is not making health decisions for your child. Your child was sick - i.e. symptomatic. Rules around return to school after being in a contagious state are wholly appropriate.

The key difference here is evidence that the child in question was sick/symptomatic/contagious.


This... actually supports my position.


I will concede that teachers, administrators, and other students could create disruptions. Doing so is their choice. Not wearing a mask is not, in any way, inherently a distraction.


We...don't seem to be in disagreement here. Dress code/decorum rules must be within reason, as I've stated several times.

Stating it is a classroom rule, is different than "Your argument was that anything stated as "classroom rules" was fair game." Which I did not say.

I'm calling BS. Quoting me posting that "wearing a mask is a classroom rule" in response to your statement that that is one of the limits of a teachers authority, followed up by "Wearing a gold star is a classroom rule" is directly comparing a mask requirement to the nazis. I'm not the only one who noticed it.

Yes it is making a health decision for my child, they are deciding when the minimum appropriate time for them to be able to return is. Maybe I feel 18 hrs is the proper decision for my child? Yes they were symptomatic, but no longer are or have been for x number of hours. But by the schools arbitrary rule...

You state that a different colored hair is inherently distracting, but violating the rules by not wearing a mask isn't and it's the other students/teachers/etc that could create a disruption and is their choice? Please. That is a logical fallacy and you know it, either both are an inherent distraction or both are caused by the other students/teachers/etc.

And you never answered, should large breasted teenage girls be forced to wear a binder to prevent them from becoming an inherent distraction? How about teens or teachers for that matter with other attractive (or perhaps seriously unattractive) bodily features? Perhaps your burka idea has merit.

 

[nonobaddog]

And you never answered, should large breasted teenage girls be forced to wear a binder to prevent them from becoming an inherent distraction?

Absolutely NOT. Stop being silly.

 

[manifest destiny]

MIC says...
Two weeks to bend the curve.
Don't wear a mask, they don't work.
Wear a mask, they work.
Cases! Cases! Cases!
These large global corporations are essential.
These independent business that sell the same products as are not essential.
A renter doesn't have to pay rent.
A landlord must continue to pay the MIC.
Liquor store = Ok
Church = Not OK
Monday: The science is settled.
Thursday: The science has changed.
The vax will return your freedoms.
You rec'd the vax? Doesn't matter, wear a mask.
Variants. The alpha, the omega, the infinity.

Where the hell are the goalpost?

edit: Forgot to mention. The public school system does not own my child. Full stop.

 

[wtburnette]

A school that requires students to wear masks is doing it to virtue signal and nothing else. The "science" that the Left is promoting is as full of holes as the masks themselves. Masks don't stop the virus. Requiring clothing to follow certain guidelines helps to keep the hormone ravaged students to focus on schoolwork and not the bodies of the other students. May or may not work, but remembering my teen years I was easily distracted by girls wearing clothes that showed off their assets, more so than the girls who didn't. Whether anyone likes to admit it or not, it's a thing. The hair thing I think is pretty dumb myself. I think it's more to appease the older generation of teacher and administrator more than anything else.

 

[rhamersley]

MIC says...
Two weeks to bend the curve.
Don't wear a mask, they don't work.
Wear a mask, they work.
Cases! Cases! Cases!
These large global corporations are essential.
These independent business that sell the same products as are not essential.
A renter doesn't have to pay rent.
A landlord must continue to pay the MIC.
Liquor store = Ok
Church = Not OK
Monday: The science is settled.
Thursday: The science has changed.
The vax will return your freedoms.
You rec'd the vax? Doesn't matter, wear a mask.
Variants. The alpha, the omega, the infinity.

Where the hell are the goalpost?

edit: Forgot to mention. The public school system does not own my child. Full stop.

 

[Timjoebillybob]

Absolutely NOT. Stop being silly.

I agree, I would of definetly agreed as a teen boy going to school with them. Large breasted teen girls that is, not a teen boy with large breasts.

A school that requires students to wear masks is doing it to virtue signal and nothing else. The "science" that the Left is promoting is as full of holes as the masks themselves. Masks don't stop the virus.

It's not actually the school, it's the state. This happened in CA and they have a mask mandate for public (not sure about private) school. I agree with you on the "science" but not everybody does. Yes for some it's virtue signaling, but for others...

Requiring clothing to follow certain guidelines helps to keep the hormone ravaged students to focus on schoolwork and not the bodies of the other students. May or may not work, but remembering my teen years I was easily distracted by girls wearing clothes that showed off their assets, more so than the girls who didn't. Whether anyone likes to admit it or not, it's a thing. The hair thing I think is pretty dumb myself. I think it's more to appease the older generation of teacher and administrator more than anything else.

So you would be behind Chip's burka idea?

 

[nonobaddog]

So you would be behind Chip's burka idea?

Burkas only make sense if you live in a really hot dessert type country. Around here bikinis are better.

 

[Timjoebillybob]

Burkas only make sense if you live in a really hot dessert type country. Around here bikinis are better.

For comfort or to keep teen boys from being distracted?

 

[nonobaddog]

For comfort or to keep teen boys from being distracted?

They have goats for that.

 

[ditcherman]

Just as definitive as the previous discussions, perhaps there should be a yes / no poll on whether the mask kept people from getting the bank bug.

Im not really a part of this discussion, but caught your post, and even knowing how people feel about masks going to go out on a limb here and post what I know…

The thing is though, it’s not about the bug as we are thinking of it.

2 examples, in my wife’s kindergarten class last year, no one got a cold, or the heebie jeebies, or nothin’. Sure they were in and out some, but were in long enough that they should have been sick. Kindergartners are gross.

Second is the church sound booth, it was so nice to not catch something from others working, or people coming up standing over you explaining how they’re just getting over a cold. Jerks.

Both of these point less towards masks working and more to people just simply paying attention to cleanliness, distance, and health in general. But the mask, and the scare tactic, did make a difference.

Also, if you can get that pole to come out with legitimate answers, you should be a millionaire.

 

[ditcherman]

I’m convinced people can’t even think any more. They’d rather face a near cat 5 hurricane than the slightest threat of covid.
“We’re all vaccinated, but still.”

 

[nonobaddog]

I’m convinced people can’t even think any more. They’d rather face a near cat 5 hurricane than the slightest threat of covid.
“We’re all vaccinated, but still.”

They are right in the projected path of it. I hope they and all their cats make it.

 

[rhamersley]

View attachment 155787
I’m convinced people can’t even think any more. They’d rather face a near cat 5 hurricane than the slightest threat of covid.
“We’re all vaccinated, but still.”

 

[BugI02]

View attachment 155787

“When God hath ordained a creature to die in a particular place, He causeth that creature’s wants to direct him to that place.”

 

[actaeon277]

View attachment 155787
I’m convinced people can’t even think any more. They’d rather face a near cat 5 hurricane than the slightest threat of covid.
“We’re all vaccinated, but still.”

Someone should ask, if the SMALL chance of dying from Covid is WORSE than the really BIG chance of drowning.

 

[rhamersley]

Someone should ask, if the SMALL chance of dying from Covid is WORSE than the really BIG chance of drowning.

Or being impaled with a 6” cedar tree…