The rage against critical race theory

[jamil]

Anyone saying, "XXXX can't be racist" is talking ****.


Gimme a break, the way some on INGO talk about me... there's quite a few that want to see me up there. Thank goodness for the ignore function.


No one's ever going to label you woke because you're posting how woke and marxist are everywhere.
I'm the one getting called out for calling the anti-CRT bills in the general assembly non-sense.

It does seem like some think, "We had the Cosby Show, Tiger's playing at Augusta, and a Kenyan was President.": Racism is dead!



I honestly can't point out any systematic racism - but I'm a white guy who's not looking for it. And yeah, agreed, it's nowhere near as prolific as it was a half century ago. But it does seem like the proposed solution: new laws against CRT is a systematic solution.


Agreed, but I'm willing to extend them some grace. Because after two years of COVID, I'm just all out of outrage. And that's about all I want to say on this topic.

I am not posting that wokeness is everywhere. I don't think it's everywhere. I don't think that most schools in Indiana have a problem with it. But some do. I don't think CRT has become systemic in Indiana schools, because that kind of thing happens top-down. And as far as I can tell, it's not at the top in Indiana. But you get a woke superintendent and that school is heading for the ****ter.

So I think to the extent that it's a problem, it's mostly a problem with individual teachers who are activists. When my son was in high school, for example, he said he didn't have any teachers who taught woke ****. I saw his curriculum, and it was fine. He said there were some woke teachers there though.

To me it seemed that some of the things in the legislation were just things other red states put in theirs. I'd liked to have seen some of the parental rights passed. Especially transparency. If for no other reason, to get parents involved in what their kids are learning. Teachers should not be able to hide what they're teaching from the parents. Period.

 

[jamil]

Racism - bigotry - prejudice

Words that have similar meanings but not exactly the same.

Racism : a belief that race is a fundamental determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race.

Bigotry : obstinate or intolerant devotion to one's own opinions and prejudices.

Prejudice : resulting from or having a prejudice or bias for or especially against.

Most of what exists in America is bigotry and prejudice, not necessarily rising to racism (ie thinking a whole race is inferior or superior.)

Most of it is likely based on ignorance, acculturation and limited experience.

THIS!

Prejudice is an evolutionary artifact. It's part of human nature. It's part of instinct. It helps us avoid danger. But it can also be over-tuned based on inaccurate information. Or as you said it, ignorance, acculturation, and limited experience.

 

[jamil]

Alright. Looking at some of the things in the Indiana legislation, yeah, maybe some were vague and would be hard to figure out where the lines are. Some are downright unnecessary. But other parts seemed quite appropriate.

I mean, is it really a problem if we tell teachers they can't teach kids that any race, sex, ethnicity, religion, skin color, national origin, or political affiliation is inherently better or worse than any other? Is it really nonsense to say teachers can't shame students because of the students' sex, race, ethnicity, etcetera? OMG, teacher can't shame the white christian male whose parents vote Republican!

My only problem with it is that it probably should have also included age appropriate sexual preference. It's not up to schools to weigh in on that. I'd really like schools to focus on teaching kids how to be competent in the world. Teaching them how to think is the correct thing to do, rather than teaching them what to think. In so doing, I think kids will grow into adults who can navigate their way through a lot of the real social justice issues.

 

[jamil]

So for everyone who still thinks were "Not quite there yet" when it comes to racism, what do you think its supposed to look like when we are? I really don't see the overwhelming systemic racism or even the overwhelming individual racism that gets talked up and put forward all the time, but let me guess...............its because I'm racist. right?

Indeed, we're not quite there yet. I think we were a lot closer to maybe 10 years ago than we are now. Wokeness has made us regress on both sides of it.

I do see instances of individual racism. White on black, black on white, hispanic, Jews, whatever.

I don't think denying that it's still a problem necessarily makes you a racist. Maybe blind to it, but not racist. Thinking that you're superior because of your race, or hating or disparaging people because of their race, would make you a racist. But I haven't seen you do that here, so, no.

 

[Keith_Indy]

Let’s take race out of it for a moment.

One can be bigoted or prejudiced against old people. Damn blue hairs always walking slow, talking slow, can’t use technology. Whatever. Could be prejudice against the left handed, red headed, obese, short people, tall people, people with red clothing on. People have all sorts of crazy ideas on who is better or worse based on some perceived characteristic.

One can have these opinions, one can express these opinions. One can express any opinion, be judged by others for it.

What one should not be allowed is discrimination against old people (or other characteristics) in the law and in public accommodations. You can’t deny an older person a job if they are otherwise qualified.

That’s the best we can hope for in a rules based society. Civility in public.

Education and broadening ones set of experience is the long term solution. Unfortunately, neither our politics or society do long-term well.

 

[wtburnette]

Let’s take race out of it for a moment.

One can be bigoted or prejudiced against old people. Damn blue hairs always walking slow, talking slow, can’t use technology. Whatever. Could be prejudice against the left handed, red headed, obese, short people, tall people, people with red clothing on. People have all sorts of crazy ideas on who is better or worse based on some perceived characteristic.

One can have these opinions, one can express these opinions. One can express any opinion, be judged by others for it.

What one should not be allowed is discrimination against old people (or other characteristics) in the law and in public accommodations. You can’t deny an older person a job if they are otherwise qualified.

That’s the best we can hope for in a rules based society. Civility in public.

Education and broadening ones set of experience is the long term solution. Unfortunately, neither our politics or society do long-term well.

I've always said trying to erase all prejudice or hate is wrong, which is why I oppose any type of "hate" crime. As you say, you inform and educate people and leave it at that. Most forms of out and out racism in this country have been greatly reduced, though the last 5 years or so we've gotten worse simply because of the Left trumpeting racism every 5 minutes, even though most of their examples are absolute BS.

And in reference to legislation against CRT, yes please. Do I wish these types of things weren't necessary? Absolutely. Unfortunately the Left have gone completely insane, or at least shown what was already there. Pushing out and out racism in schools, as well as indoctrinating our young and vulnerable into believing their fairy tales about being able to just decide on a gender (or any of the 100+ genders they've made up). To me this is child abuse and while we already have laws against this, we need to include these new heinous acts into the definition, or enact new laws to protect our young.

 

[Ironhippie]

Indeed, we're not quite there yet. I think we were a lot closer to maybe 10 years ago than we are now. Wokeness has made us regress on both sides of it.

I do see instances of individual racism. White on black, black on white, hispanic, Jews, whatever.

I don't think denying that it's still a problem necessarily makes you a racist. Maybe blind to it, but not racist. Thinking that you're superior because of your race, or hating or disparaging people because of their race, would make you a racist. But I haven't seen you do that here, so, no.

Ya didn't answer the question Jamil. The part about me being a racist was rhetorical, but the 1st part about what the end of racism looks like here in America you didn't answer. Let's say hypothetically that a few years from now racism is proclaimed dead, there's been no claims of racism, no w-b or b-w or any other different race on race crime just a beautiful utopia. Then some guy out in Montana during a pod cast happens to have a Tom Sawyer book on his shelf, it gets noticed by someone who yells.........Hes a racist! Are we right back to.........."Well were not quite there yet" So, you tell me are we ever going to get to a point where someone isn't screaming racism and if so what does that look like. What is it going to take to quit beating racism to death here in America because not a day goes by here where in print or TV news I don't read about someone claiming something is racist. Ya know Mauritania didn't abolish slavery until 1981, how bout the world pick on them for awhile or how bout the numerous countries who still turn a blind eye to slavery.

 

[DoggyDaddy]

Ya know Mauritania didn't abolish slavery until 1981, how bout the world pick on them for awhile or how bout the numerous countries who still turn a blind eye to slavery.

 

[wtburnette]

Ya didn't answer the question Jamil. The part about me being a racist was rhetorical, but the 1st part about what the end of racism looks like here in America you didn't answer. Let's say hypothetically that a few years from now racism is proclaimed dead, there's been no claims of racism, no w-b or b-w or any other different race on race crime just a beautiful utopia. Then some guy out in Montana during a pod cast happens to have a Tom Sawyer book on his shelf, it gets noticed by someone who yells.........Hes a racist! Are we right back to.........."Well were not quite there yet" So, you tell me are we ever going to get to a point where someone isn't screaming racism and if so what does that look like. What is it going to take to quit beating racism to death here in America because not a day goes by here where in print or TV news I don't read about someone claiming something is racist. Ya know Mauritania didn't abolish slavery until 1981, how bout the world pick on them for awhile or how bout the numerous countries who still turn a blind eye to slavery.

The only reason racism isn't "dead" is that the Left has too much use for it. I put it in quotes because racism will never be dead. Some people will always hate other people, or fear other people, based on race. It's part of human nature and I don't believe it'll ever be fully eradicated. By "dead" I mean no longer a major issue, which I don't believe it actually is, aside from narrative.

 

[Shadow01]

Alright. Looking at some of the things in the Indiana legislation, yeah, maybe some were vague and would be hard to figure out where the lines are. Some are downright unnecessary. But other parts seemed quite appropriate.

I mean, is it really a problem if we tell teachers they can't teach kids that any race, sex, ethnicity, religion, skin color, national origin, or political affiliation is inherently better or worse than any other? Is it really nonsense to say teachers can't shame students because of the students' sex, race, ethnicity, etcetera? OMG, teacher can't shame the white christian male whose parents vote Republican!

My only problem with it is that it probably should have also included age appropriate sexual preference. It's not up to schools to weigh in on that. I'd really like schools to focus on teaching kids how to be competent in the world. Teaching them how to think is the correct thing to do, rather than teaching them what to think. In so doing, I think kids will grow into adults who can navigate their way through a lot of the real social justice issues.

If you are in a position where it is necessary to tell teachers what they can’t teach or speak out against or in a defamatory manner, then you already have a problem in your schools that needs eradicated.

 

[phylodog]

As with most protected classes, their “struggles” will never end. It will never be over. We will never satisfy people who have been told their entire lives that their failures are someone else’s fault.

Nothing will ever be good enough to abandon the money and power offered by “victimhood”.

 

[AndreusMaximus]

So for everyone who still thinks were "Not quite there yet" when it comes to racism, what do you think its supposed to look like when we are?

I think we're "Not quite there yet."

What's it supposed to look like when we are? No single individual in the entirety of our society ever makes any sort of judgement about, nor takes any sort of action for or against another person, based on criteria related to that person's race, and instead treats others purely on the basis of rational criteria, such as the quality of their character as evidenced by their actions. None of our laws make any reference to race whatsoever, as it is intuitively understood by all members of society that discrimination based on race is abhorrent to a moral and just people. Virtually all public discussion of race is limited to the context of historical education regarding how race has been used in the past as a basis of division and injustice, and serves only as a reminder that we should never repeat such injustices.

This is the ideal; we will never get there, but there's no call to stop pushing towards it, as I believe we can still get closer.

But, yes, we can admit that we've come a heck of a long way towards that goal, and at the moment, it seems like there are much more pressing concerns for our country than whatever small amounts of racism may be left.

 

[DadSmith]

Ask what the end game is for instituting CRT. Who gains by pushing this?

 

[Keith_Indy]

Ask what the end game is for instituting CRT. Who gains by pushing this?

MARXISTS and their various cults.

One can't just look at it from the context of CRT. The important words to focus on in "Critical Race Theory" is CRITICAL THEORY. Apply as necessary, gender, race, sexuality, disability.

Critical Theory (capitalized) also refers specifically to a school of thought practiced by the Frankfurt School theoreticians Herbert Marcuse, Theodor Adorno, Walter Benjamin, Erich Fromm, and Max Horkheimer. Horkheimer described a theory as critical insofar as it seeks "to liberate human beings from the circumstances that enslave them."[2] Although a product of modernism, and although many of the progenitors of Critical Theory were skeptical of postmodernism, Critical Theory is one of the major components of both modern and postmodern thought, and is widely applied in the humanities and social sciences today.[3][4][5]

 

[jamil]

Ya didn't answer the question Jamil. The part about me being a racist was rhetorical, but the 1st part about what the end of racism looks like here in America you didn't answer. Let's say hypothetically that a few years from now racism is proclaimed dead, there's been no claims of racism, no w-b or b-w or any other different race on race crime just a beautiful utopia. Then some guy out in Montana during a pod cast happens to have a Tom Sawyer book on his shelf, it gets noticed by someone who yells.........Hes a racist! Are we right back to.........."Well were not quite there yet" So, you tell me are we ever going to get to a point where someone isn't screaming racism and if so what does that look like. What is it going to take to quit beating racism to death here in America because not a day goes by here where in print or TV news I don't read about someone claiming something is racist. Ya know Mauritania didn't abolish slavery until 1981, how bout the world pick on them for awhile or how bout the numerous countries who still turn a blind eye to slavery.

Funny. I think that question is the rhetorical one and the latter was the serious one.

But, that you asked it, makes me think you think we're "there" enough. Are we there enough?

In my thinking we're there enough when people stop giving a flying **** about race. Too many people on the left give too many ****s about race. Too many people on the right give too many ****s about race. But I'd say, these days, the people on the left give way more ****s about race than people on the right. We were a lot closer to giving zero ****s about race before CRT hit the mainstream.

It's a nebulous question. Might as well ask when is Jesus coming. Asking is of no real consequence and thus may as well be rhetorical. Answering it is optional.

Now. About why does the left keep saying everything is racist especially things that aren't racist? It's in the theory. They're supposed to. It's part of the praxis.

 

[jamil]

The only reason racism isn't "dead" is that the Left has too much use for it. I put it in quotes because racism will never be dead. Some people will always hate other people, or fear other people, based on race. It's part of human nature and I don't believe it'll ever be fully eradicated. By "dead" I mean no longer a major issue, which I don't believe it actually is, aside from narrative.

Yes, they have too much use for it, but racism wasn't dead before the Left took over all the cultural institutions. It was dying. Not quite dead though.

 

[jamil]

Ask what the end game is for instituting CRT. Who gains by pushing this?

It's a power flip. It's the only way to turn the West Marxist. Tear down all the cultural institutions and rebuild them. And at some point they'll have enough power to win their revolution.

 

[jamil]

If you are in a position where it is necessary to tell teachers what they can’t teach or speak out against or in a defamatory manner, then you already have a problem in your schools that needs eradicated.

Not necessarily "already". I don't think it's that big of a problem in Indiana yet, but the operative word here is "yet". Years ago no one would have thought anything like this would ever be a thing. But we see what's happening in other states and it's reasonable for parents to say, we don't want that here.

Maybe legislating what teachers can't say, or worse, what they must say, isn't the right solution. Maybe the right solution is to appoint a state school superintendent who will root out the activists. That's sounds a lot like McCarthyism though. I don't want that either.

In terms of where the line is, I think it's at the point where we feel like we have to protect kids from activists. The activists may not have filled enough teaching positions in Indiana to make it noticable. An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. If that means legislation I'd like it to be something that affects zero teachers who are already doing a great job. The only teachers who should feel such policies are the activists who think it's their duty to indoctrinate kids into wokeness. For me it's simple. If they're teaching woke **** I want them fired.

 

[wtburnette]

Yes, they have too much use for it, but racism wasn't dead before the Left took over all the cultural institutions. It was dying. Not quite dead though.

As I said, I don't believe racism will ever be dead, but it was most definitely in decline until the Left started whipping it up again.

 

[DoggyDaddy]

As I said, I don't believe racism will ever be dead, but it was most definitely in decline until the Left started whipping it up again.

There is a cottage industry if you will that depends on keeping racism alive (see Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton for examples).