The rage against critical race theory

[jamil]

Exactly. Those are all scam words. Equity is the big one that is a tell, as it's complete garbage. There is no way to have equal beginnings, so equal outcomes is not to be desired. People are born with advantages and disadvantages. That's just life. Not just social and economics, but physically and mentally. I want to be able to work my butt off, make the right choices and benefit from that. Why should someone who sits on their couch and watches TV or plays video games get ahead in life, or have the same as someone who busts their butts getting an education and a career? Absolute garbage of an idea. Everyone should have equal opportunities, but what you do with those opportunities is up to you.

Individualism solves most societal problems. There's no need for "group rights" if everyone's individual right is protected. If individual rights are upheld skin color doesn't matter. Everyone has the same rights. Everyone's rights should be protected equally.

However, circumstances do impede equal opportunity. If you're physically or mentally incapable of doing some task, then there are many opportunities unavailable to you. So we can't truly have equal opportunity across the board. And I do think society has some responsibility to help people who are physically or mentally incapable. They're probably not going to live as comfortably as someone as capable as Elon Musk. And society does not owe them an equal outcome.

The thing that society must do to protect every citizen's individual rights is to remove impediments to opportunities that aren't debilitating. So things like skin color should not be an impediment to opportunity. Race, sex, national origin, etcetera, should not be impediments to opportunities, other than what is natural. What I mean by that, I should not expect equal opportunity to be a Hooters waitress. It's not that I'm not hot enough, all 275lbs of me. It's that I just don't have the stamina to be on my feet a whole shift. And I might get fired for flirting with my coworkers.

 

[grillak]

It’s a growing problem in all churches and indeed every aspect of American urban and suburban societies. Don’t think it isn’t creeping into various Baptist denominations.

i saw the creep into the baptists long ago. when they started accepting homosexuality for the sake of winning gospel awards but still outwardly condemning it.

i don't actively disparage religion. it works for billions of people. but i looked at history. i saw where man corrupted the word and will of the creator. so i stay away from churchianity. i see too many people that believe in god but don't believ god.

sorry to go off on a tangent.

 

[wtburnette]

Individualism solves most societal problems. There's no need for "group rights" if everyone's individual right is protected. If individual rights are upheld skin color doesn't matter. Everyone has the same rights. Everyone's rights should be protected equally.

However, circumstances do impede equal opportunity. If you're physically or mentally incapable of doing some task, then there are many opportunities unavailable to you. So we can't truly have equal opportunity across the board. And I do think society has some responsibility to help people who are physically or mentally incapable. They're probably not going to live as comfortably as someone as capable as Elon Musk. And society does not owe them an equal outcome.

The thing that society must do to protect every citizen's individual rights is to remove impediments to opportunities that aren't debilitating. So things like skin color should not be an impediment to opportunity. Race, sex, national origin, etcetera, should not be impediments to opportunities, other than what is natural. What I mean by that, I should not expect equal opportunity to be a Hooters waitress. It's not that I'm not hot enough, all 275lbs of me. It's that I just don't have the stamina to be on my feet a whole shift. And I might get fired for flirting with my coworkers.

I completely agree society should help people who can't help themselves. I'm just opposed to helping those unwilling to help themselves.

 

[JettaKnight]

You don’t observe lent, so no. But, I didn’t post that to disparage religion generally, but because it is absurd. But I guess it also serves as a warning to Catholic conservatives that wokeness is a growing problem in their church.

The church in the story isn't Catholic (looks progressives mainstream), and lots of protestants observe Lent (don't ask me why).

It’s a growing problem in all churches and indeed every aspect of American urban and suburban societies. Don’t think it isn’t creeping into various Baptist denominations.

buckle up for the upcoming SBC elections, it's going to be a fight.
But yeah, the American Baptist have taken it hook, line, and sinker.

The language is the tell.

“Diversity” is the woke way of saying not white. “Inclusion” is the woke way of saying, include diverse while excluding non-diverse. Equity is the woke way of expressing, similar to the Marxist critique Animal Farm, the woke way of saying “diverse” people are more equal than non-diverse people.

This is why I hate this crap: churches and Christians are being forced to tip toe around discussions of race for fear of being labeled woke or a marxist. (And I'm talking about conservative evangelicals, not progressive mainline churches)

I don't expect non Christians to understand and I certainly wouldn't expect them to agree, but as a Christian I'm bound by the Gospel and if that gets me labeled as woke by the modern day Romans, then so be it.

Now don't infer that I'm buying into true CRT that's promoting any sort of inferiority or superiority based on race or gender or some protected class... that's not the Gospel. But I contend that simply admitting that racism still exists, and people are being hurt from it is not CRT.

And it's ok to admit that there were (and likely still are some) systematic forms of racism (e.g. housing limits and rules, school segregation). You can do that without going to the level of crying and contrition and demanding whitey does self-flagulation (Or reparations).

Furthermore, it's not woke for Christians to come together and ask, "what can Christ's followers do to bring God's justice to this issue?" Not every discussion about racism leads to Marxism.

The church here in the story is just dumb and either ignored the optics of this, or are completely pretentious and self-absorbed. You're not solving anything by eschewing singing How Great Thou Art for two months; it's just dumb.

 

[JettaKnight]

Individualism solves most societal problems. There's no need for "group rights" if everyone's individual right is protected. If individual rights are upheld skin color doesn't matter. Everyone has the same rights. Everyone's rights should be protected equally.

THIS.

But let's at least admit we still haven't quite made it there in America when it comes to race.

 

[JettaKnight]

i saw the creep into the baptists long ago. when they started accepting homosexuality for the sake of winning gospel awards but still outwardly condemning it.

American Baptist Churches USA, yes. Not Southern Baptist (Or most independent ones either). And certainly not the National Baptist Convention (predominantly black).

 

[grillak]

Now don't infer that I'm buying into true CRT that's promoting any sort of inferiority or superiority based on race or gender or some protected class... that's not the Gospel. But I contend that simply admitting that racism still exists, and people are being hurt from it is not CRT.

this right here!

people start running when i point out the racism at work. blacks think i'm agreeing with the bull that every action taken by a white person is grounds to relive 400 years of oppresion. white people think of me as that uppity ******. i think of myself as an american that wants EVERYONE to be treated equally. for blacks (or anyone) to try to get revenge for something 150 yrs ago is assinine.

to me, equity denotes a monetary settlement. equality is what we need. it denotes that i am afforded the same oppurtunities as anyone else.

i'd like to see honest, open conversation. many stereotypes can be proven on both sides of the color fence. it is ok to call it out when you have someone that lives up to the stereotypes. i do. it doesn't make you a racist. it makes you a realist. when you believe that everyone of a certain color is whatever negative you can come with is when you become racist.

 

[grillak]

American Baptist Churches USA, yes. Not Southern Baptist (Or most independent ones either). And certainly not the National Baptist Convention (predominantly black).

i didn't realize there are so many "different" baptists. lol

 

[wtburnette]

THIS.

But let's at least admit we still haven't quite made it there in America when it comes to race.

There are racial issues still, but it's on all sides of the issue and nowhere near as bad as the media and the Left purport it to be.

 

[JettaKnight]

i didn't realize there are so many "different" baptists. lol

Baptist love two things: potluck caseroles, and creating new denominations over petty things like the color of the carpet in the sanctuary.

 

[jamil]

THIS.

But let's at least admit we still haven't quite made it there in America when it comes to race.

Of course not. I see examples of racism from all races often enough. And I mean, real ass overt “I don’t like you because of your race” kind of racism.

Systemic? Well then you have to start adopting woke definitions to get wide spread systemic racism. Policy wise I’ll grant that stop-and-frisk is an example that is to a large extent, racially enforced. Which to me would fit a reasonable definition of systemic racism. But most examples of what I see as racism is individuals.

 

[jamil]

American Baptist Churches USA, yes. Not Southern Baptist (Or most independent ones either). And certainly not the National Baptist Convention (predominantly black).

You don’t think that **** is getting to Southern Baptists? It’s getting into most of the major denominational leadership.

 

[jamil]

Baptist love two things: potluck caseroles, and creating new denominations over petty things like the color of the carpet in the sanctuary.

Dude, that’s not unique to Baptists. I was on a church board years ago and the **** people argue about.

 

[jamil]

i'd like to see honest, open conversation. many stereotypes can be proven on both sides of the color fence. it is ok to call it out when you have someone that lives up to the stereotypes. i do. it doesn't make you a racist. it makes you a realist. when you believe that everyone of a certain color is whatever negative you can come with is when you become racist.

This. And it’s even fine to joke with each other about those stereotypes. Some of them are funny. And some of them are more regional than racial. And people who aren’t racists have no trouble being jovial with each other about that stuff.

 

[DoggyDaddy]

This. And it’s even fine to joke with each other about those stereotypes. Some of them are funny. And some of them are more regional than racial. And people who aren’t racists have no trouble being jovial with each other about that stuff.

Agreed! Back when I worked for TGI Fridays (mid 80's to mid 90's), we had a pretty diverse staff (blacks, whites, Koreans, gays, straights, etc.). I would frequently get to work when only the cleaning staff was in the building (all black guys) and they would let me in early. We used to always rib each other about, "How come black guys always _______? Or "How come white people always ______?" We had a lot of laughs and we were always friends.

A couple of black guys that worked the line with me were pretty big dudes and they'd sometimes be stressed out (we all were) and flash me a dirty look when I asked where the order I needed was. I'd often say, "Hey, don't give me that angry black man look!" And we'd laugh about it. Other times one of them would be in the middle of a big rant about how far in the weeds he was and yada, yada, yada... and I'd yell, "James!!" and he would yell back, "What?!?!" I'd just smile and say, "I love you!". And then he'd start laughing and I'd start laughing and we'd get through it all. James really was a big dude. He had been a Golden Gloves heavyweight boxer.

Another guy, "JP" was a Desert Storm veteran and was about my age. Back then, NWA and Run DMC were probably the most well-known rap groups. I asked him one time, "JP? How did we get from 'Betcha By Golly Wow' to '**** the Police'?" He'd just say, "I don't know, but it wasn't a good thing!" (We were both fans of the old Motown stuff.)

 

[Ironhippie]

So for everyone who still thinks were "Not quite there yet" when it comes to racism, what do you think its supposed to look like when we are? I really don't see the overwhelming systemic racism or even the overwhelming individual racism that gets talked up and put forward all the time, but let me guess...............its because I'm racist. right?

 

[jamil]

This is why I hate this crap: churches and Christians are being forced to tip toe around discussions of race for fear of being labeled woke or a marxist. (And I'm talking about conservative evangelicals, not progressive mainline churches)

Maybe some conservatives have a hard time telling the difference between having an honest discussion about race and wokespeak. I don't think they do. I know enough of them, and generally discussions we have about race don't go off the rails.

If someone, especially under 40, is telling you things like, Black people can't be racist, white people can't be not racist, that white people today hold some responsibility for slavery generations ago, that racism today is just as bad as it was 50 years ago, that's CRT.

Simply stating that racism still exists today is just obvious. That's not CRT. Insisting that things which aren't actually racist is racist is most likely rooted in CRT. I really don't see what the controversy is.

And maybe it's because of this:

I don't expect non Christians to understand and I certainly wouldn't expect them to agree, but as a Christian I'm bound by the Gospel and if that gets me labeled as woke by the modern day Romans, then so be it.

Well, I hope your crucifixion doesn't take too much out of your day. That's quite the cross you're bearing. But, you know, it's just what Gospel bearers do. Seriously, you don't think that sounds a bit self-righteous? I mean sometimes I think we can have a good conversation and then that.

Now don't infer that I'm buying into true CRT that's promoting any sort of inferiority or superiority based on race or gender or some protected class... that's not the Gospel. But I contend that simply admitting that racism still exists, and people are being hurt from it is not CRT.

There is a belief among some conservatives that racism is over. I hear things like that too. And it's simply not true. But, c'mon man. I've never been called "woke" for saying racism still exists. I get some pushback maybe. Never been called woke. Maybe if you're getting called woke for saying racism doesn't exit, could you be saying more than that? Or maybe the way you're saying it sounds woke. I dunno. I've noticed people trigger from patterns and you say something that sounds like the trigger and people assume stuff. Maybe it's that. But I haven't been called woke for saying it. So I dunno.

And it's ok to admit that there were (and likely still are some) systematic forms of racism (e.g. housing limits and rules, school segregation). You can do that without going to the level of crying and contrition and demanding whitey does self-flagulation (Or reparations).

Furthermore, it's not woke for Christians to come together and ask, "what can Christ's followers do to bring God's justice to this issue?" Not every discussion about racism leads to Marxism.

The church here in the story is just dumb and either ignored the optics of this, or are completely pretentious and self-absorbed. You're not solving anything by eschewing singing How Great Thou Art for two months; it's just dumb.

Now I'll push back a bit on "systemic" racism. Unless, like I said in a post above, we're not using the same definition. Systemic racism is a system of racism. That's illegal unless you're a Democrat. CRT throws out terms like unconscious bias. Uh, it's not unconscious. They make up a lot of terms to make racism sound worse than it is. And I'm not trying to say it doesn't exist. But it's not anywhere near as institutional as it was 50 years ago.

About the Lent thing, I can't give them any credit for misunderstanding anything. I think they're caught up in the same delusions as every other woke person.

 

[DadSmith]

American Baptist Churches USA, yes. Not Southern Baptist (Or most independent ones either). And certainly not the National Baptist Convention (predominantly black).

Add in Wesleyan Armenian holiness believers they haven't gave in.
For those who don't know it's churches that branched off of the Methodist church many years ago. Not the modern Methodist churches. I know several southern Baptist church members and they are not falling into this garbage as well.

 

[JettaKnight]

Maybe some conservatives have a hard time telling the difference between having an honest discussion about race and wokespeak. I don't think they do. I know enough of them, and generally discussions we have about race don't go off the rails.

If someone, especially under 40, is telling you things like, Black people can't be racist, white people can't be not racist, that white people today hold some responsibility for slavery generations ago, that racism today is just as bad as it was 50 years ago, that's CRT.

Anyone saying, "XXXX can't be racist" is talking ****.

Well, I hope your crucifixion doesn't take too much out of your day. That's quite the cross you're bearing. But, you know, it's just what Gospel bearers do. Seriously, you don't think that sounds a bit self-righteous? I mean sometimes I think we can have a good conversation and then that.

Gimme a break, the way some on INGO talk about me... there's quite a few that want to see me up there. Thank goodness for the ignore function.

There is a belief among some conservatives that racism is over. I hear things like that too. And it's simply not true. But, c'mon man. I've never been called "woke" for saying racism still exists. I get some pushback maybe. Never been called woke. Maybe if you're getting called woke for saying racism doesn't exit, could you be saying more than that? Or maybe the way you're saying it sounds woke. I dunno. I've noticed people trigger from patterns and you say something that sounds like the trigger and people assume stuff. Maybe it's that. But I haven't been called woke for saying it. So I dunno.

No one's ever going to label you woke because you're posting how woke and marxist are everywhere.
I'm the one getting called out for calling the anti-CRT bills in the general assembly non-sense.

It does seem like some think, "We had the Cosby Show, Tiger's playing at Augusta, and a Kenyan was President.": Racism is dead!

Now I'll push back a bit on "systemic" racism. Unless, like I said in a post above, we're not using the same definition. Systemic racism is a system of racism. That's illegal unless you're a Democrat. CRT throws out terms like unconscious bias. Uh, it's not unconscious. They make up a lot of terms to make racism sound worse than it is. And I'm not trying to say it doesn't exist. But it's not anywhere near as institutional as it was 50 years ago.

I honestly can't point out any systematic racism - but I'm a white guy who's not looking for it. And yeah, agreed, it's nowhere near as prolific as it was a half century ago. But it does seem like the proposed solution: new laws against CRT is a systematic solution.

About the Lent thing, I can't give them any credit for misunderstanding anything. I think they're caught up in the same delusions as every other woke person.

Agreed, but I'm willing to extend them some grace. Because after two years of COVID, I'm just all out of outrage. And that's about all I want to say on this topic.

 

[Keith_Indy]

Racism - bigotry - prejudice

Words that have similar meanings but not exactly the same.

Racism : a belief that race is a fundamental determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race.

Bigotry : obstinate or intolerant devotion to one's own opinions and prejudices.

Prejudice : resulting from or having a prejudice or bias for or especially against.

Most of what exists in America is bigotry and prejudice, not necessarily rising to racism (ie thinking a whole race is inferior or superior.)

Most of it is likely based on ignorance, acculturation and limited experience.