The CZickness #XIV....It continues

[88E30M50]

I just got a SP-01 Phantom and I love it. I love the SA action, but the DA I would like to lighten up. I've read that you can do some polishing and it will lighten it up, but I'm wondering just how much polishing will do. I don't mind polishing but if it isn't going to be noticeable or view-able then I'm not too keen on it. So do I buy and replace parts or polish? I would like to shorten the reset at some point, but that is further down the road. Also trying to do this on a budget while keeping the gun safe to carry.

I just picked up the same type gun and shot it for the first time this morning. Whether or not to polish depends a lot on what you want out of the gun and how much you'll be shooting it. CZs tend to 'self-polish' as the round count rises and some of the best feeling guns out there are guns that have no polishing, but higher round counts. If you are going to shoot 10k rounds a year through it, I would not worry much about polishing. But, if you are running 500 rounds a year through it, polishing can help a whole lot.

When I upgrade my CZs, I usually take a stepped approach. I'll start with a reduced power trigger return spring, along with the replacement trigger pin. Next up will be the short reset kit from CGW (this is the one for the Phantom). After that, I'll add a race hammer and possibly the barrel bushing and maybe I'll change up the trigger itself. But, for this new one, I'll probably just shoot it for a while and see what it seems to need.

 

[churchmouse]

I just picked up the same type gun and shot it for the first time this morning. Whether or not to polish depends a lot on what you want out of the gun and how much you'll be shooting it. CZs tend to 'self-polish' as the round count rises and some of the best feeling guns out there are guns that have no polishing, but higher round counts. If you are going to shoot 10k rounds a year through it, I would not worry much about polishing. But, if you are running 500 rounds a year through it, polishing can help a whole lot.

When I upgrade my CZs, I usually take a stepped approach. I'll start with a reduced power trigger return spring, along with the replacement trigger pin. Next up will be the short reset kit from CGW (this is the one for the Phantom). After that, I'll add a race hammer and possibly the barrel bushing and maybe I'll change up the trigger itself. But, for this new one, I'll probably just shoot it for a while and see what it seems to need.

It seemed to run really well but expected no less.

 

[KJQ6945]

I'm a Phantom fan. Glad it worked out for you 88.

 

[88E30M50]

Thanks guys. I wish I had taken BA's advice and picked one up several years back when he first got his. That's when I had the P09 and kept thinking that the Phantom would not be much different than the P09 in feel but there is a difference. The Phantom has more of the classic 75 feel to it than the P09's do. I love my P09s but they are a different gun than the 75 series are.

Normally, guns designed in steel don't translate well to polymer frames but this one seems to make that jump well.

 

[churchmouse]

Thanks guys. I wish I had taken BA's advice and picked one up several years back when he first got his. That's when I had the P09 and kept thinking that the Phantom would not be much different than the P09 in feel but there is a difference. The Phantom has more of the classic 75 feel to it than the P09's do. I love my P09s but they are a different gun than the 75 series are.

Normally, guns designed in steel don't translate well to polymer frames but this one seems to make that jump well.

I miss my P-07.

 

[Benp]

I just picked up the same type gun and shot it for the first time this morning. Whether or not to polish depends a lot on what you want out of the gun and how much you'll be shooting it. CZs tend to 'self-polish' as the round count rises and some of the best feeling guns out there are guns that have no polishing, but higher round counts. If you are going to shoot 10k rounds a year through it, I would not worry much about polishing. But, if you are running 500 rounds a year through it, polishing can help a whole lot.

When I upgrade my CZs, I usually take a stepped approach. I'll start with a reduced power trigger return spring, along with the replacement trigger pin. Next up will be the short reset kit from CGW (this is the one for the Phantom). After that, I'll add a race hammer and possibly the barrel bushing and maybe I'll change up the trigger itself. But, for this new one, I'll probably just shoot it for a while and see what it seems to need.

Thanks for the list and the order too!
Its great to shoot as it is, my groups were very good for this being my first time with it. SA is wonderful, almost feels like cheating because it's almost too easy to shoot. Originally I was wanting a P07 or a P09, but I'm glad this turned up!

 

[doddg]

Saw this on Armslist:

CZ P-10 C
$ 400

I haven't learned all the differences between the 01, 07, 09, 10, and the 75

 

[mcapo]

One of those is not like the other...

The P10C is a striker fired polymer compact pistol. Let’s say it is what a G**** 19 wants to be (IMHO). Great factory trigger. Shoots very well for me. It’s a favorite of mine for plastic.

It’s rather dissimilar from the SP-01 but it is a fine firearm.

 

[doddg]

Sometimes you just have to make the trade or cash offer and see how it goes. Even if you, by your standards, “make a mistake”, it’s not going to be a $1000 mistake.
I might also forewarn you that CZs aren’t in a league of their own - well - some most definitely are.
They are nice, well built and reliable. Much of the firearms that are spoken of around here with near reverence are ones that have had $100’s of modifications made after the purchase. That’s the beauty of CZs - what they can become.
Stock they are very very nice guns. Modified they can be spectacular!

1. Very true, when I make a mistake, it's a $25- $50 mistake: I'll live.
2. Appreciate the reality feedback on the unmodified CZs. As you know I will not spend $$ to get a 2# trigger b/c I know it will not change the quality of my life.
3. I have appreciated the Kimber or Sigs (don't remember any CZs) that I've rented at the range or someone from here has shared theirs with me.
4. Even in my "unrefinement" I could feel/tell the difference in the more expensive guns than my Shields or Rugers, but I'm so "low-class" that when I buy a Ruger P89 for $200ish and it feels/shoots and is "accurate" enough for me, upgrades escape me.
5. But, in my defense, when I find a gun that cost more that I enjoy, I'll buy it: Glock 42, Glock 26, Ruger GP100. I even bought two FNSs, but they were only a little more than my Smiths (bought 6 of them and still have 4 of them).

 

[wtburnette]

Saw this on Armslist:

CZ P-10 C
$ 400

I haven't learned all the differences between the 01, 07, 09, 10, and the 75

Excellent gun and that's a good price. As T-DOGG mentioned, it's similar to a G19, but in my opinion improved in pretty much every way. The grip texturing may seem too aggressive until you get used to it, but you can always smooth it up a bit, or cover it if needed. Nice, well built gun. I notice a little bit of trigger pinch with the stock trigger, but that pretty much disappears with a trigger kit from HB Industries. I've been carrying mine now for a couple of months and am enjoying it. Even ran it during my last class and aside from the trigger pin walking out a bit (my fault) and finding out the holster I bought off Amazon needed a notch cut out because it covered the mag release, the gun performed well. I made sure the trigger pin was seated correctly and haven't had an issue with it since. I have around 1k rounds through the two P10s I own and aside from a couple pins walking when I didn't seat them correctly, I've had no other issues. Love them personally

 

[T-DOGG]

Morning.

I actually had a thought of picking up a P10 in FDE and giving it another chance.

 

[wtburnette]

Morning.

I actually had a thought of picking up a P10 in FDE and giving it another chance.

Morning Travis. Ironically, that's the opposite of what I did...

I started out with the FDE version, sold it, then found that CZ had made some changes to the gun and I went out and bought a black one. Liked it so much I picked up a spare. For some reason I like the black version better...

 

[Birds Away]

I wish someone would explain the "safe to carry" thing. Why would anyone consider an updated trigger unsafe to carry? Do you think it will go off by itself? A shorter, smoother trigger means you are much less likely to pull your shot. If you are more accurate you are inherently safer, yes? Your finger should not enter the trigger guard until you are on target and prepared to fire. If you are on target and prepared to fire how is a better trigger unsafe? I guess I just don't get it. To me a safe trigger is one you have practiced with again and again. It is second nature and becomes intuitive. The danger is in having many dissimilar triggers. Just my

 

[wtburnette]

I wish someone would explain the "safe to carry" thing. Why would anyone consider an updated trigger unsafe to carry? Do you think it will go off by itself? A shorter, smoother trigger means you are much less likely to pull your shot. If you are more accurate you are inherently safer, yes? Your finger should not enter the trigger guard until you are on target and prepared to fire. If you are on target and prepared to fire how is a better trigger unsafe? I guess I just don't get it. To me a safe trigger is one you have practiced with again and again. It is second nature and becomes intuitive. The danger is in having many dissimilar triggers. Just my

I've read a couple of books by Mas and he explained it as three things. First of all, a lighter trigger is easier to accidentally fire when the adrenaline dump hits. While possibly true, I've read plenty of accounts of people using heavy double action triggers who accidentally fired during an incident, so it seems to me the trigger can be accidentally fired no matter the weight of the trigger. The second thing is a gung ho prosecutor can argue that the trigger was made lighter intentionally to be better used for killing. This is more worrisome if the use was not clear cut self defense and/or there were other issues surrounding the event where the prosecutor is trying to add as much ammo to their side as possible. The last item is that sometimes a modified trigger may not be as reliable as a stock trigger. We've all seen the stories of people who have had their guns go full auto or even fail after having modifications done. Unfortunately, there are too many people who don't test their guns, or shoot them often who may have work done and then just stick the gun back in the holster and carry it, never knowing if there might be an issue.

I personally feel that if you are trained on the firearm in question and use it often, it shouldn't matter. Just pointing out what I've read from experts.

 

[Birds Away]

I've read a couple of books by Mas and he explained it as three things. First of all, a lighter trigger is easier to accidentally fire when the adrenaline dump hits. While possibly true, I've read plenty of accounts of people using heavy double action triggers who accidentally fired during an incident, so it seems to me the trigger can be accidentally fired no matter the weight of the trigger. The second thing is a gung ho prosecutor can argue that the trigger was made lighter intentionally to be better used for killing. This is more worrisome if the use was not clear cut self defense and/or there were other issues surrounding the event where the prosecutor is trying to add as much ammo to their side as possible. The last item is that sometimes a modified trigger may not be as reliable as a stock trigger. We've all seen the stories of people who have had their guns go full auto or even fail after having modifications done. Unfortunately, there are too many people who don't test their guns, or shoot them often who may have work done and then just stick the gun back in the holster and carry it, never knowing if there might be an issue.

I personally feel that if you are trained on the firearm in question and use it often, it shouldn't matter. Just pointing out what I've read from experts.

As you know, I am a big advocate of multiple guns, same trigger. Most people like to diversify and have different platforms, I get that. For me, this just doesn't work. If you have the same, or as nearly as you can make it, trigger pull then whatever gun you happen to have you will be intimately familiar with the trigger and less likely, IMO, to have that adrenaline jerk. I could just be fooling myself but I truly believe that. Secondly, concerning the gung ho prosecutor, I want to still be in the conversation at that point. We're talking life and death at this point and I think my odds increase by a great deal if I am using a trigger that I have trained with extensively. If all my guns have the same trigger, within a few ounces, I think I stand my best chance of winning and still being around for said prosecutor to try to work over. Although I wouldn't enjoy that I think it is much better than the alternative.
In the end it is each person's choice and mine is for consistency. I don't have many guns left but even when that number was approaching two dozen I still felt the same way. Make all the triggers as close to the same as you can, practice religiously with said triggers, and you put yourself in the best possible position to come out alive. I realize I stand alone in this belief but I'm okay with that. I've put a lot of thought into it and I believe this is the best solution for me. It doesn't matter if you have a 2 1/2 pound SA trigger if all of your guns have that same trigger. It's beyond being comfortable it will be absolutely normal and I think you will react accordingly. The goal of muscle memory is, IMO, trying to keep the brain from interfering with the process. The brain must decide when it is time to use deadly force. After that you want muscle memory and those hours and hours of practice to be in charge. Again this is just my opinion but it doesn't matter if you have a 2 pound trigger or a 6 pound trigger if that is your normal and you practice with it all the time. The danger is in going back and forth and wherever else your various trigger pulls take you.

 

[churchmouse]

I can not argue with any of this BA.
If you are in reference to an earlier poster in this thread I believe he was stating he experienced equipment failure in cold weather with the light spring kit. Might not have been in a CZ. I would have to look.
Anything I have that will ever see carry duty is tuned the same. As close as I can get it. Trigger break is not set to range fly fart levels but is medium light and crisp.

 

[wtburnette]

As you know, I am a big advocate of multiple guns, same trigger. Most people like to diversify and have different platforms, I get that. For me, this just doesn't work. If you have the same, or as nearly as you can make it, trigger pull then whatever gun you happen to have you will be intimately familiar with the trigger and less likely, IMO, to have that adrenaline jerk. I could just be fooling myself but I truly believe that. Secondly, concerning the gung ho prosecutor, I want to still be in the conversation at that point. We're talking life and death at this point and I think my odds increase by a great deal if I am using a trigger that I have trained with extensively. If all my guns have the same trigger, within a few ounces, I think I stand my best chance of winning and still being around for said prosecutor to try to work over. Although I wouldn't enjoy that I think it is much better than the alternative.
In the end it is each person's choice and mine is for consistency. I don't have many guns left but even when that number was approaching two dozen I still felt the same way. Make all the triggers as close to the same as you can, practice religiously with said triggers, and you put yourself in the best possible position to come out alive. I realize I stand alone in this belief but I'm okay with that. I've put a lot of thought into it and I believe this is the best solution for me. It doesn't matter if you have a 2 1/2 pound SA trigger if all of your guns have that same trigger. It's beyond being comfortable it will be absolutely normal and I think you will react accordingly. The goal of muscle memory is, IMO, trying to keep the brain from interfering with the process. The brain must decide when it is time to use deadly force. After that you want muscle memory and those hours and hours of practice to be in charge. Again this is just my opinion but it doesn't matter if you have a 2 pound trigger or a 6 pound trigger if that is your normal and you practice with it all the time. The danger is in going back and forth and wherever else your various trigger pulls take you.

I agree with you on your reasoning. I was just posting stuff I've read. I can see and understand all the angles and just keep it all in mind.

Sent from my PURE XL using Tapatalk

 

[KJQ6945]

Morning, exceptionally smooth trigger lovers.

 

[mcapo]

Morning!

Travis - if you get another P10C; get an HBI trigger! Best $65 trigger upgrade ever.

BA - the only thing I would add is that there is a perception (real and perceived) that a modified firearm carries an increase in liability in a courtroom, especially in a civil trial.

Your point of all triggers being the same is 110% correct. That is the only reason I bought a P365. My CCW has been a P938 and a Shield and I do not like have two different platforms. Carried a Model 60 CCW before the Shields came around.

I am not a big fan of the "feel" of the sig trigger shoe and hope someone comes out with a nice flat(ter) faced trigger and I would replace it.

Hi! My name is Matt. I am a trigger snob but its not my fault. It happened after joining INGO. I used to be happy with stock triggers.

 

[Benp]

I wish someone would explain the "safe to carry" thing. Why would anyone consider an updated trigger unsafe to carry? Do you think it will go off by itself? A shorter, smoother trigger means you are much less likely to pull your shot. If you are more accurate you are inherently safer, yes? Your finger should not enter the trigger guard until you are on target and prepared to fire. If you are on target and prepared to fire how is a better trigger unsafe? I guess I just don't get it. To me a safe trigger is one you have practiced with again and again. It is second nature and becomes intuitive. The danger is in having many dissimilar triggers. Just my

When I mentioned "safe to carry" I was referencing the fact that some people talk about removing the firing pin block and this helps to lighten the trigger, which I'm not wanting to remove any parts to get a lighter trigger. Polish or replace but not remove.