Re-boot The fight is still on

[IndyDave1776]

Perhaps it would be more correct to say that it had been so long since anyone even attempted to act on our agenda that we are willing to accept some imperfections. It was OK for the left to accept that Clinton couldn't keep his dick in his pants and Hillary carved her place on the map by springing an agent of evil incarnate who brutally raped a 12 year old on a technicality yet was somehow a champion for women. That said I see no reason to apologize for Trump being a tad boorish on occasion.

 

[jamil]

Most of the extreme fringe you mention don't exist. The media would have you believe KKK membership shot up 12,000% the day Trump took office. That's complete BS. There have always been fringe groups, there have always been conservatives, there have always been republicans.

It's a label created to distract and discredit. I supported Trump when he did things I believed were good for the country. I did not support Trump when did things I didn't agree with like his ridiculous twitter antagonizing. I'll admit I did find it entertaining at times but still think it was a horrible idea.

Who said anything about extreme fringe? I'm talking about people I post with on INGO. I don't think of all y'all as fringe or KKK, or whatever. I created that label myself in 2016. I didn't get it from anyone else. It was a contraction of "Trump" + "supporter". I could have made it Trump'er, to make that more clear. But frankly, I didn't want to type the ' key. Of course other people arrived at that name. But I've been using it for a very long time. And other INGOers who might remember, said they didn't mind me using it back then.

 

[phylodog]

I don't think that's true. Are you saying that Trumper, conservative, staunch conservative, or even Republican are all interchangeable? I don't think they are. I think a Trumper is an ardent Trump supporter, and that has a meaning in itself. It means people support the man, and sometimes to the point where they will defend even indefensible actions. I know that's not something that they themselves would admit. But that certainly is my and many other people's observation. But it also means not just a supporter of the man, but a supporter of the Trump ideology.

And let me explain what I mean by that. We perceive a concept, and often can't wrap the idea up into something articuable. Trump sort of did that. I mean, before Trump a lot of you guys seemed to lean fairly libertarian. And then Trump came along with the America First sort of thing, and even some things that weren't really part of what you all seemed to support prior to him. But that sort of populism rang true for a lot of you. And I remember back in the 2016 primary seeing a switch click in many of you, and you sort of became "ardent Trumpers". I mean nothing derogotory about that. I'm not all that fond of the seemingly blind support though.

But anyway, Trump sort of became the icon for what I'll just call the idea of Trump. Which is America First, and all the other things Trump has pushed for. And I'll say I agree with a lot of that. But there are also some lines Trump crossed where many of you decided those lines don't matter anymore. And that's the difference between what I'd say is my own conservative values and yours. And I'll even say I've changed a bit too from what I thought back in 2016. I now think that sides are just an evolutionary construct, and are no longer necessary. That picking out the things that are "right", and rejecting the things that are "wrong", regardless of sides, is more betterer.

Should the left not bear some responsibility for the the willingness of people to defend him as an automatic reaction considering the non stop barrage of made up bull? That's not pro Trump, that's anti media and left wing bull.

I'm not a Trump supporter. I'm a conservative whose position has not changed one iota in the past 25 years. Gonna be one after this is all over.

 

[jamil]

Perhaps it would be more correct to say that it had been so long since anyone even attempted to act on our agenda that we are willing to accept some imperfections. It was OK for the left to accept that Clinton couldn't keep his dick in his pants and Hillary carved her place on the map by springing an agent of evil incarnate who brutally raped a 12 year old on a technicality yet was somehow a champion for women. That said I see no reason to apologize for Trump being a tad boorish on occasion.

Well, I'm willing to accept some imperfections too. I did vote for the guy twice. Both times he was the least evil. But I do recall some Trumpers telling me that he wasn't just their least evil. He was their choice. I think that is a difference that sort of makes the distinction between a person who is just conservative and an ardent supporter of Trump, a Trumper, if you will. But I'll grant that lately a lot of people have come to use that term pejorativley so I can see why many ardent Trump supporters might be sensitive about it.

 

[phylodog]

You don't have to agree with me and you don't have to stop using the term. I'm just telling you that whether you believe it is or not, it comes off as dismissive. There's no shortage of people in this country who have been falsely convinced that Trump stands for everything that is evil in this world. Those same people use the term to include anyone who doesn't share their ideals.

 

[jamil]

Should the left not bear some responsibility for the the willingness of people to defend him as an automatic reaction considering the non stop barrage of made up bull? That's not pro Trump, that's anti media and left wing bull.

I'm not a Trump supporter. I'm a conservative whose position has not changed one iota in the past 25 years. Gonna be one after this is all over.

Sure. I've defended him for that too. For example during the impeachment hearings. I think they did it because they just couldn't bear him being the POTUS. The press has been lying hypocrits his whole term. But he did bring a lot of that upon himself.

 

[phylodog]

Well, I'm willing to accept some imperfections too. I did vote for the guy twice. Both times he was the least evil. But I do recall some Trumpers telling me that he wasn't just their least evil. He was their choice. I think that is a difference that sort of makes the distinction between a person who is just conservative and an ardent supporter of Trump, a Trumper, if you will. But I'll grant that lately a lot of people have come to use that term pejorativley so I can see why many ardent Trump supporters might be sensitive about it.

Their choice because they could have had anyone they wanted? Or choice because he was better than voting for yet another career politician who didn't have to have a committee approve his every word before he gave it in public?

You said it yourself, you voted for the man as the least evil option. Just like 99% of the other people who voted "for" Trump. It was a vote against the establishment. He wasn't the candidate I would have wanted but he was the only candidate I considered as what we've been doing for decades is not working and the direction this country is headed with little resistance from the Republicans.

If I'm drowning and someone throws me a life preserver I'm not going to complain because it smells musty.

 

[phylodog]

I don't think the election was stolen, rigged or whatever people want to call it because Trump said so. I can guarantee you I've never listened to the man talk for more than 60 seconds.

 

[jamil]

You don't have to agree with me and you don't have to stop using the term. I'm just telling you that whether you believe it is or not, it comes off as dismissive. There's no shortage of people in this country who have been falsely convinced that Trump stands for everything that is evil in this world. Those same people use the term to include anyone who doesn't share their ideals.

I don't think that Trump is any more evil than any other politician. I also don't think he's all that smart as some of you think. And that tended to hurt him move than help him. And that's kinda part of why I don't think the man is as separable from the idea as you think. Clear evidence that he's an idiot at times and people act like, no, it's a strategy. Why excuse him when he says something stupid if it's only about the ideas he embodied? I don't really care about Trump the person. Some of his ideas I like, some I don't like. I have no reason to defend the person, other than when I think the press or others have been untruthful about him.

 

[phylodog]

Again, defending the man became second nature pretty quickly after he took office. I literally would not have been surprised to see headlines on CNN claiming he screwed a giraffe on the white house lawn.

 

[phylodog]

I'm pretty sure since you've admitted that you voted for him the left is going to consider you a Trumper.

 

[jamil]

I'm pretty sure since you've admitted that you voted for him the left is going to consider you a Trumper.

Not just a "Trumper". An "enabler"

 

[Tombs]

I'm pretty sure since you've admitted that you voted for him the left is going to consider you a Trumper.

An awful lot of people don't seem to understand that their respect of nuance isn't going to be a shared value with their opposition.

 

[jamil]

An awful lot of people don't seem to understand that their respect of nuance isn't going to be a shared value with their opposition.

Hey, I know what many people think of anyone who would vote for Trump. I try to be an ambassador to the sane. But to the insane what else can be done? They'll think what they think regardless.

 

[foszoe]

OK you bunch of knuckleheads.
This is closed and may or may not open in the morning.
Stop drinking and posting as this crap is getting seriously old very fast.

A church mouse Another Forum that I'm on Does the same thing with their political forums that we do with our classified by making people post a certain number of times before they're allowed into the political forums and then they have to request it from the moderators to actually get access to the political forum . I wonder if that's something Our moderation team may consider

 

[Tombs]

A church mouse Another Forum that I'm on Does the same thing with their political forums that we do with our classified by making people post a certain number of times before they're allowed into the political forums and then they have to request it from the moderators to actually get access to the political forum . I wonder if that's something Our moderation team may consider

I've suggested an approval only based membership to the political sub multiple times and never got a response.

 

[foszoe]

I've suggested an approval only based membership to the political sub multiple times and never got a response.

I don't think they had the ability to really do that almost automatically like they can with the new software which is why I suggested it

 

[churchmouse]

A church mouse Another Forum that I'm on Does the same thing with their political forums that we do with our classified by making people post a certain number of times before they're allowed into the political forums and then they have to request it from the moderators to actually get access to the political forum . I wonder if that's something Our moderation team may consider

We have some things we are discussing. One is that we all have to actually talk about guns and gun related things on a gun forum or no joy for the political threads. If you are only here to disrupt somebody's poop pile then take it elsewhere.
We also have some new tools in the arsenal that might get some attention.

 

[churchmouse]

I've suggested an approval only based membership to the political sub multiple times and never got a response.

With the old system that was a stretch.

 

[Tombs]

With the old system that was a stretch.

If the new system allows it, I'd like to request that you simply have an opt-in system where a mod slaps an ability onto the user's account that allows them to see the political sub.

Unless you opt in, you never are aware there even is a political sub.

Some sort of option in your profile for "controversial topics" that will require admin approval to see. I'm sure you folks can come up with a more polished way to do something along those lines.
I think the sub being hidden to normal users is the most critical aspect though.