Officers just disarmed me in Subway, lectured and took my DL.

[ArcadiaGP]

I skimmed through all the pages and haven't seen if it's been discussed or not, but wouldn't that constitute an illegal stop? He wasn't in violation of any law, and there wasn't any reasonable suspicion to assume he wasn't licensed... so did they even have grounds to stop him?

If they told him to put his hands up (like they did) and he just looked at them and said, "Absolutely not. That's an unlawful order and you have no cause to detain me," what would have happened? If he requested the presence of their supervisor?

Me, trying to be the good and honest person, told the 1st officer "I am licensed, but I do not have it on me at the moment." That's when he told me to raise my hands, and went on about how you HAVE to have it on you

Edit: The first thing he said was "You've got your permit, right?" Paraphrasing.

 

[iChokePeople]

"Too late" how?

It sounded to me like you got there after the initial confrontation. Rather than being disarmed by "the perfect 2a ambassador" (that I'm notionally creating), they had already taken the high ground and dug in.

Imagine if the first response was in the affirmative. What then? They either say yes, we'd like to see it or they accept his response and calm confidence and move on. If they say yes, we'd like to see it, or even look at it and call it in to confirm it, now HE's on the high ground. THEN if they still want to play the disarm game, he calmly and confidently describes to them how he's done nothing wrong, is doing nothing illegal, has a license from the Indiana State Police, and according to the law, there is no reason to disarm him or even discuss the matter further, and by the way, am I free to go? If I'm being detained, I'd like you to ask your supervisor to join us. Am I being detained, or am I free to go?

I'm sure you get my point. Even if they were prick JBTs, the perfect ambassador could have created a very different impression in the hearts and minds of the other customers.

 

[popsmoke]

Me, trying to be the good and honest person, told the 1st officer "I am licensed, but I do not have it on me at the moment." That's when he told me to raise my hands, and went on about how you HAVE to have it on you

And that's what I'm curious about. Had you merely said, "yes" and nothing more, would they have recourse for action? I'm not aware (maybe due to my own ignorance) of any law requiring you to produce your LTCH at the whim of an officer if you're not committing a crime. If there is one and I'm just wrong, someone please inform me. I can't find it online.

 

[Titanium_Frost]

And that's what I'm curious about. Had you merely said, "yes" and nothing more, would they have recourse for action? I'm not aware (maybe due to my own ignorance) of any law requiring you to produce your LTCH at the whim of an officer if you're not committing a crime. If there is one and I'm just wrong, someone please inform me. I can't find it online.

Well...

It is kinda complicated in Indiana. Technically you can tell them you are licensed and they can pound sand... BUT they can arrest you and hold you until you prove you actually ARE licensed so it is definitiely a catch 22 there.

Just have your little pink permission slip and show it to any officer who asks. The courts will be on your side.

 

[the1kidd03]

It sounded to me like you got there after the initial confrontation. Rather than being disarmed by "the perfect 2a ambassador" (that I'm notionally creating), they had already taken the high ground and dug in.

Imagine if the first response was in the affirmative. What then? They either say yes, we'd like to see it or they accept his response and calm confidence and move on. If they say yes, we'd like to see it, or even look at it and call it in to confirm it, now HE's on the high ground. THEN if they still want to play the disarm game, he calmly and confidently describes to them how he's done nothing wrong, is doing nothing illegal, has a license from the Indiana State Police, and according to the law, there is no reason to disarm him or even discuss the matter further, and by the way, am I free to go? If I'm being detained, I'd like you to ask your supervisor to join us. Am I being detained, or am I free to go?

I'm sure you get my point. Even if they were prick JBTs, the perfect ambassador could have created a very different impression in the hearts and minds of the other customers.

Gotcha.

Yeah, when I walked in the initial confrontation had already happened and they were already engaged in discussion. The pistol was laying on the table, unloaded which is what caught my attention and made me aware of what was going on. At that time is when I heard the first statement about training.

 

[dom1104]

TL : DR.

1. OP is 26 years old, OCing, with a bad drivers license and no LTCH.

2. Cops arrive, and yeah, what you think would happen happened.

 

[iChokePeople]

TL : DR.

1. OP is 26 years old, OCing, with a bad drivers license and no LTCH.

2. Cops arrive, and yeah, what you think would happen happened.

23 pages accurately summarized in three lines.

 

[ArcadiaGP]

23 pages accurately summarized in three lines.

If your expectation is for ISP to violate 4th amendment :P Otherwise, DL never would have been involved.

 

[Jack Burton]

If your expectation is for ISP to violate 4th amendment :P Otherwise, DL never would have been involved.

Don't know much about the 4th Amendment, eh...

 

[Titanium_Frost]

If your expectation is for ISP to violate 4th amendment :P Otherwise, DL never would have been involved.

It is your fault for giving it to them. There was no unreasonable search or seizure, get over it.

 

[Indy60]

I am watching the breaking news of the Connecticut school shooting. I am not implying anyone here is a bad guy but I am glad LEO's are proactive when they observe something odd in a public place. You never know when the actions of LEO's will prevent a crazy person from going postal and ruining a bunch of lives.

 

[ATM]

...What if it had been ATM but with a beard grizzly adams would envy?

The officers would both offer to buy me a sammich and the crowd would lift me up and carry me around on their shoulders like a hero.



Unfortunately, I trimmed up the Nov. beard on Dec. 3rd

...so I'd probably end up digging taser barbs out of my face when it was all said and done.

 

[eldirector]

I am watching the breaking news of the Connecticut school shooting. I am not implying anyone here is a bad guy but I am glad LEO's are proactive when they observe something odd in a public place. You never know when the actions of LEO's will prevent a crazy person from going postal and ruining a bunch of lives.

What was odd? Maybe he was getting a footlong veggie? THAT is odd.

Big difference between going about your day while carrying openly and legally, and shooting up a school. Big difference.

 

[ArcadiaGP]

Just left the Subway with the damn footlong Spicy I wanted yesterday.

Lady behind counter laughed about it, agreed the cops were being huffy and should have gone outside.

 

[the1kidd03]

Just left the Subway with the damn footlong Spicy I wanted yesterday.

Lady behind counter laughed about it, agreed the cops were being huffy and should have gone outside.

LOL, was just thinking about going back that way again too...

 

[Indy60]

What was odd? Maybe he was getting a footlong veggie? THAT is odd.

Big difference between going about your day while carrying openly and legally, and shooting up a school. Big difference.

Your right, grazing on veggies at the Subway is a bit odd.

 

[bwframe]

Just left the Subway with the damn footlong Spicy I wanted yesterday.

Lady behind counter laughed about it, agreed the cops were being huffy and should have gone outside.

Betcha had your ID's this time, eh?

 

[Titanium_Frost]

Did anyone mention that you were on private property and if the Subway owners didn't care the ISP couldn't say crap about you carrying in there?

 

[Titanium_Frost]

Betcha had your ID's this time, eh?

No, ISP took it

 

[ArcadiaGP]

Betcha had your ID's this time, eh?

LTCH and new ID, yes