I Voted For Obama

[henktermaat]

Post 100!!!!!!!!!

I would rep you for that... but... I'm fresh out

 

[printcraft]

You could look it up, but this may be the fastest to 100 non-bacon post thread in INGO history.

I think someone mentioned bacon.... oh, snap.

 

[Fletch]

I'd say people come here to escape groupthink.

It all depends on which side of the group your think is on.

 

[Paco Bedejo]

Danged phone calls...missed it.

 

[mikea46996]

I would rep you for that... but... I'm fresh out

Good God Man!!!!!!

Don't let Joseph here that.... more pointless wasted rep just because I did something funny...
Give it to Redneckmedic if he doesn't get at least 2 a day he will wilt I think.... Rep Whore!!!!!

 

[jennybird]

Hey sorry about not getting back to you guys earlier, I had to run some errands immediately after and I was not expecting such a deluge of responses. I'll try to elaborate further on my earlier ten points.

1. I don't think all Muslims are terrorists. I think extremists on either side are likely to be terrorists.

Perhaps I misspoke. What I'm trying to say is, there are religious and non-religious groups of all kinds. There have been a lot of people doing bad things in the name of God or justice. Despite that, I still think that we should give the majority of people the benefit of the doubt, even if they belong to a polarizing group.

I would have to argue that anyone terrorizing anyone (whether it's a serial killer or a 911 attack) has some pretty "extreme" whacked out views. However, just because someone has extreme views (aka strong opinions) doesn't mean they're terrorists. I think I understand what you're saying, but you must choose words carefully when you're dealing with a bunch of strongly opinionated folks like us... the word "extremist" is used much too loosely these days.

2. I'm pro-choice.

This will come off as evil, but I really think the world has enough babies. Social services in this country, are understaffed and underfunded. I've heard way too many stories of people working for child protection services not caring about a foster child in a bad home, simply because there just aren't enough resources or that the staff member in charge is just overwhelmed with cases. If someone doesn't want to have a baby, abort it, because there is a good chance that child will be born into an unwelcome home and become a financial liability for the rest of us for some time.

So, the 88 year old grandmother who is in a nursing home, unwanted by her family because her alzheimers disease is too much of a burden, who is supported by medicare/medicaid (tax dollars from guess who... the working class) who is so often abused by the staff... you're saying that since she's a burden to society and a financial liability it's ok to kill her off? To stick a pair of scissors into the back of her skull? All in the name of our own convenience? No? Explain to me the difference... please.

3. I don't think the sky is falling and don't believe that hyperinflation will occur in the near future. Hyperinflation has already begun. Look around you. Prices continue to rise nearly as fast as poverty levels. The higher prices we pay, the more taxes we pay along with it. Of course the government wants higher prices. They need someone to pay off their debt you know... they have more spending to do!

Yea the economy sucks right now. Enjoy life, buy a dog! Even if the **** does hit the fan, at least you're prepared! That much I agree with.

4. I think climate change is happening and that humans share some of the responsibility for that.

Even if humans weren't responsible for climate change or on the level that Al Gore claims, I still think that global warming crowd has some good ideas. The sooner we get off foreign oil and start using alternative energy sources, the better and safer our country will be. Unlike a lot of the tree huggers, I would love to see more nuclear energy in this country. From what I've read, it appears to be very safe, incredibly efficient, and cheap. Lastly, even if climate change were not happening and people weren't responsible, we shouldn't get a free ticket to drive 5 mpg Hummers or not recycle. There are cleaner alternatives and we should embrace them because pollution sucks for everyone in the long term Sure polution sucks. It's unhealthy. Doesn't mean that Al Gore and his claims aren't rediculously stupid. (Sorry, I just really don't like that man... I think he's a liar, a fake, and a whiney little boy.) When I hear "We haven't had this much rainfall for 50 years... it must be global warming!" or "We haven't had this cold of a winter for 100 years... it must be global warming!" I just wanna scream at the lunacy. If it was 100 degrees 50 years ago, and 100 degrees today... how the hell is that an indication that the environment is declining??? If it rained 100 years ago, and rained again today... how is that an indication that the environment is declining? It's not. It simply means things are fluctuating normally.


5. I think evolution is as good of a theory as the theory of gravity.

I didn't really see that many objections to it. I can't really debate what the Bible said since I'm not God, and the Bible is God's word. We should teach this and not intelligent design in schools because its embraced by the scientific community as what's correct. Call me crazy, but I think schools should be required to teach both evolution and creation. School is for education after all so why not educate them on more than one theory? It is then up to the students to decide which to believe. I think allowing schools to teach only one theory goes against the idea of seperation of church and state as it infers that one should only believe in evolution.

6. Let gays marry, why not?

Separate but equal never really works out in the end, look at Brown V Board of Education. Separate is inherently unequal. I don't think that gays should be denied the rights that straight couples can have. Besides, the biggest threat to marriage is divorce! Maybe another solution would be to abolish marriage completely and just give everyone civil unions and let churches deal with marriage.

Why is it so difficult to allow the term "marriage" to be reserved for a man and a woman as it has always been? Why can't the gay community have the same type of arrangement but call it a "union" instead? It's a matter or respect for history and religion and not stepping on people's toes.

If I go to a woman's rally, I don't expect drag queens or men who've had sex-change operations to show up. It's stepping on my toes and I don't like it. If they want to act like women, fine, have at it. But when it comes to actually BEING a woman... that's reserved for the real thing folks.

9. I don't think taxation is that horrible.

Taxes have paid for bad things and good things. I'm glad that taxes have paid for interstate highways, public education, the police and fire department, etc. I'm disappointed that tax money has paid for wars I don't agree with, bailouts I dislike, and the salaries of public servants I disagree with. Taxation is fine with me too... but do they really need to take over half my damn paycheck!?!?! (Before you yell at me, yes, they do. Uncle Sam takes his cut off the top, then taxes me again any time I buy anything, then again if I (heaven forbid) earn interest on anything I might attempt to save.

10. I like the idea of "socialized" healthcare.

I think the current system in America is horrible. Healthcare costs are too high and all the insurance companies are out there to screw you. Yea Canada's system seems to be OK. Yes you might have to wait a long time for non-essential surgeries, but at least you won't be bankrupt at the end of the procedure. I read a few days ago that health care costs account for close to half of the bankruptcies in America. Screw HMOs and screw the millionaire executives running private insurance companies and pharmaceutical corporations. First of all, the healthcare problems are not, despite popular belief, the fault of hospitals or big pharma companies. Anyone in the healthcare industry can tell you exactly where the problem lies... insurance companies and government. If that isn't clear to you, ask a nurse to explain. I guarantee she/he will be able to give you an earfull on that subject. Socialized anything is a very dangerous way to go. Period.

I gotta give you props for coming here and stating your case. And I appreciate that you haven't done it in an insulting manner. Although a couple of folks here are barbarians, most of us are good people. Welcome to the neighborhood!

 

[RachelMarie]

Hey guys, I'm sort of a lurker on this forum. Mostly I just read the handguns and ammo section for tips and stuff. Lately, I've been reading the politics threads a lot. I like reading view points that conflict with mine, it gives me some sort of perspective and I like seeing what's happening with the opposite end of the political spectrum. I feel like sometimes the discussions on this section of the forums are sort of one sided, its a lot of preaching to the choir, so I would like to express my more "liberal" opinions and shock you guys.


1. I don't think all Muslims are terrorists. I think extremists on either side are likely to be terrorists.
2. I'm pro-choice.
3. I don't think the sky is falling and don't believe that hyperinflation will occur in the near future.
4. I think climate change is happening and that humans share some of the responsibility for that.
5. I think evolution is as good of a theory as the theory of gravity.
6. Let gays marry, why not?
7. I don't think Ron Paul is that awesome, yes he has some good ideas but he has just as many wacky ones.
8. I don't think there is a liberal bias in the media as much the media is just stupid and irrelevant lately.
9. I don't think taxation is that horrible.
10. I like the idea of "socialized" healthcare.


And just so the moderators don't think I'm some sort of liberal troll from outer-space, yes I'm from Indiana. Yes I'm a gun-owner and I love guns of all kinds. I love to go the range when I can. I too am having a hard time finding ammunition. But anyways, here I am.

Good for you for saying what you believe!
Welcome aboard!
Dont take, what some of the folks here say, to heart. It is what it is. Just agree to disagree!

 

[rhino]

Yet another addition to my ever-increasing IGNORE list! Woo-hoo!

 

[henktermaat]

Yet another addition to my ever-increasing IGNORE list! Woo-hoo!

Damn. So many reppable posts, so few reps...

 

[Crimson]

Just had to repeat it.

 

[hoosiertriangle]

I should understand why you said this, but for some reason I don't. It may be the Mucinex affecting me. Please explain if you would.

Yet another addition to my ever-increasing IGNORE list! Woo-hoo!

 

[Fletch]

Yet another addition to my ever-increasing IGNORE list! Woo-hoo!

Yeah, I've never understood this mentality myself.

 

[kingnereli]

Ron,

Welcome to INGo. The problem I am having with this thread is that you just set up caricatures of what conservatives believe and chose the other side based on those caricatures. The conservative camp is a bit mor varied the the liberal one. In fact I only dabble in this forums political sub-forum because I have found ample disagreement with some here. INGO seems to be mostly comprised of the libertarian crowd which isn't exactly where I line up. With that said I would caution you to rethink such broad statements.

While others have done a good job at explaining why Obama is a raving lunatic and it would take me more time the n I care to take to give thorough answers to all you points I will just hit some of the high points (low points really.)

1. I don't think all Muslims are terrorists. I think extremists on either side are likely to be terrorists.

Perhaps I misspoke. What I'm trying to say is, there are religious and non-religious groups of all kinds. There have been a lot of people doing bad things in the name of God or justice. Despite that, I still think that we should give the majority of people the benefit of the doubt, even if they belong to a polarizing group.
Besides eroding from the inside due to Obamaesque policies terrorism is the biggest current threat to America. The terrorist that want to kill us are motivated by Islamic teachings. Call it extremism if you want but Islam is a threat to America. No not every Muslim is a terrorist but when we are trying to protect this country we have to play the odds.


2. I'm pro-choice.

This will come off as evil, but I really think the world has enough babies. Social services in this country, are understaffed and underfunded. I've heard way too many stories of people working for child protection services not caring about a foster child in a bad home, simply because there just aren't enough resources or that the staff member in charge is just overwhelmed with cases. If someone doesn't want to have a baby, abort it, because there is a good chance that child will be born into an unwelcome home and become a financial liability for the rest of us for some time.

Ok. So are you saying that the best possible answer for the social services problem is to abort babies so they don't go into foster care. Lets weigh this out unwelcome home vs. DEAD. I know what I would choose. As far as being a financial liability I think you are being short sighted. Let's give the axe to people on welfare, social security, government assisted housing, those with terminal illnesses, heck even food stamps. Ooo, what about unemployment? They are a financial liability as well. This argument is just more evidence that any pro abortion position is inherently selfish.


3. I don't think the sky is falling and don't believe that hyperinflation will occur in the near future.

Yea the economy sucks right now. But I do believe it will get better. No I didn't buy any gold. Maybe I should have. Maybe I should have bought stock when the Dow was at 6,000. I don't really believe any economist can predict what will happen in the future and the ones that claim they can should be regarded with some skepticism. That being said, preparing for the worst is a good thing, its part of the reason why I have a gun! I just think that a lot of the tin-foil wearing crowd just aren't really enjoying life and spend way too much time worrying. Enjoy life, buy a dog! Even if the **** does hit the fan, at least you're prepared!

Have you noticed how much this record spending is devaluing the dollar. It can only get worse. You can't have a worthless dollar and no inflation.


4. I think climate change is happening and that humans share some of the responsibility for that.

Even if humans weren't responsible for climate change or on the level that Al Gore claims, I still think that global warming crowd has some good ideas. The sooner we get off foreign oil and start using alternative energy sources, the better and safer our country will be. Unlike a lot of the tree huggers, I would love to see more nuclear energy in this country. From what I've read, it appears to be very safe, incredibly efficient, and cheap. Lastly, even if climate change were not happening and people weren't responsible, we shouldn't get a free ticket to drive 5 mpg Hummers or not recycle. There are cleaner alternatives and we should embrace them because pollution sucks for everyone in the long term

Get off of foreign oil? Nuclear energy? Now you are sounding like a conservative. Too bad the democrats keep blocking efforts to do just that in favor of the fool hardy "green" alternatives. We would be drilling our own oil in Alaska and off shore if it weren't for liberals in congress.

5 mpg hummer? Free country?



5. I think evolution is as good of a theory as the theory of gravity.

I didn't really see that many objections to it. I can't really debate what the Bible said since I'm not God, and the Bible is God's word. We should teach this and not intelligent design in schools because its embraced by the scientific community as what's correct.

The "evidence" for evolution is pathetic at best. The biological arguments are the best. Which is really sad. The fossil record, the beginning of life, and more are huge holes in the theory. When you talk about chemical evaluation and probability it gets even more absurd. For example, the chance of a single protein forming by chance even given an unlimited amount of time. Let alone anything that can be considered life.

"Scientific community" you hear that thrown around a lot when talking evolution. I'm going to need you to define that for me. There are a lot of reputable scientists and professors how don't espouse to evaluation. Some of which have been fired or lost tenure for questioning the theory. When you consider this "scientific community" comes to mean something other then what it implies.


6. Let gays marry, why not?

Separate but equal never really works out in the end, look at Brown V Board of Education. Separate is inherently unequal. I don't think that gays should be denied the rights that straight couples can have. Besides, the biggest threat to marriage is divorce! Maybe another solution would be to abolish marriage completely and just give everyone civil unions and let churches deal with marriage.

I have made the mistake of considering gay marriage a civil rights issue. It isn't. It is a moral issue. Here is one place that I part ways with the libertarians. It is necessary to legislate morality. I like that the states are getting to decide, but the decision has to be considered in terms of right and wrong.

Tyler34, made a good point in post #63. All arguments for same sex marriage can be applied to polygamy, incest and more. How far are you willing to take this? People will be marrying their arm chairs and mammas eventually. But hey, separate but equal just doesn't work. We wouldn't want to discriminate.


7. I don't think Ron Paul is that awesome, yes he has some good ideas but he has just as many wacky ones.

Ron Paul has some great ideas like a free trade and opposing NAFTA, the fact that he has a very strict interpretation of the Constitution, he voted against the REAL ID act, and I'm sure you guys can think of a lot of others. I don't like the fact that he does not believe in evolution and wants to abolish the Board of Education and has a very isolationistic view of foreign policy. I do believe that sometimes our government should intervene in cases of humanitarian crises or real threats to our national security. I love the fact that he is a third party candidate, has garnered such large attention for his ideas, and is a thorn on the side of both Democrats and Republicans.

I like Ron Paul. I don't like that he is a third party candidate. he takes conservative votes away from Republican candidates which helps men like Obama get elected.


8. I don't think there is a liberal bias in the media as much the media is just stupid and irrelevant lately.

The reason why I don't think there is a liberal bias is because there are demagogues on both sides of the media. You have CNN, MSNBC, Keith Olbermann, Fox News, Sean Hannity, Rush Limbaugh, Glenn Beck. Both sides have very powerful and influential talking heads and both of them have a very large following. I hate Rush because he makes fun of people with Parkinsons and is a huge hypocrite and I hate Keith Olbermann because he sounds obnoxious and refuses to use regular words. Both groups are very decisive and instead of focusing on real stories all I hear about is Jon and Kate plus 8 and Susan Boyle.

There is to much head-in-the-sand syndrome to comment on this one.


9. I don't think taxation is that horrible.

Taxes have paid for bad things and good things. I'm glad that taxes have paid for interstate highways, public education, the police and fire department, etc. I'm disappointed that tax money has paid for wars I don't agree with, bailouts I dislike, and the salaries of public servants I disagree with.

Ok, I am mostly with you. I would include abortions in other countries and stimulus bills that are going to bankrupt the country to that list.


10. I like the idea of "socialized" healthcare.

I think the current system in America is horrible. Healthcare costs are too high and all the insurance companies are out there to screw you. Yea Canada's system seems to be OK. Yes you might have to wait a long time for non-essential surgeries, but at least you won't be bankrupt at the end of the procedure. I read a few days ago that health care costs account for close to half of the bankruptcies in America. Screw HMOs and screw the millionaire executives running private insurance companies and pharmaceutical corporations.

To see the folly of socialism, Oh, I mean universal healthcare you just have to look at Canada and most of Europe. There is never enough money to go around. The government will have to choose what to pay for. If your procedure or treatment is not deemed cost effective you will go with out. If you think health care is expensive now just wait until it is free.


And just to prove an earlier poster right, I'll say something anti-gun. I can understand why the government won't allow fully automatic weapons and extended capacity magazines. From what I've gathered, if you need more than 10 rounds per magazine, either you're in a war zone or you need to go back to the range and practice. I do fully appreciate the fact that we are unique in our freedoms to own firearms and while me and my pistols might do anything against a government ordered military strike, it does instill some fear with those in power, which is always healthy. I do think the Assault Weapons Ban is stupid because the definition of what constitutes an assault weapon is very arbitrary and stupid. I wouldn't want the government imposing many laws on firearms because that only affects law abiding citizens. A criminal doesn't have to worry about a background check or what constitutes a pre-ban weapon because he'll take whatever he can get from the trunk of his dealer.

The founding fathers intended that we citizens always have the means to overthrow a corrupt and oppressive government. Therefore, auto weapons and high capacity magazines are, again, short sighted. There should be a tank in every driveway and a row of SAM's in every back yard. Not to mention that auto weapons and high capacity magazines are federally legal as well as in free states like Indiana. Full auto weapons are just regulated to the point where they are prohibitively expensive for the average citizen. I do hope that you will stand with us when Obama tries to take our guns. We may need them to protect everything else.

 

[Fletch]

INGO seems to be mostly comprised of the libertarian crowd...

Really? Where?

ETA: Based on polls, it seems like there's a fair number of libertarians, but based on conversations, it seems like it's 75+% hardcore, life-long, card-carrying, moral majority Republicans.

 

[leftsock]

Yeah, I've never understood this mentality myself.

The mentality where one will outright ignore anyone else who has a dissenting thought or opinion to their own in order to feel secure in their positions and polarize the opposition?
or
"I'm right, you're wrong, LALALALALALALALA I CAN'T HEAR YOU!!!"

Yeah, it isn't a very useful mentality and only alienates others.

 

[SirRealism]

Jerry Doyle made a good point regarding socialized medicine recently. He said, why is it that you want a system in place whereby when you and I meet on the street for the first time, I am immediately in your debt? How can I owe money to people I've never met?

That's a paraphrase, but you get the point.

 

[Paco Bedejo]

I like Ron Paul. I don't like that he is a third party candidate. he takes conservative votes away from Republican candidates which helps men like Obama get elected.

Since you're obviously not aware of this...Ron Paul was a Republican Primary candidate in the 2008 presidential race. Unfortunately, the mass media played him off as a kook & everyone ate it up. Even though he had better fund raising than most of the Republican primary candidates, he wasn't allowed into the debates & was black listed by the party.

Instead of a man who stands by the US Constitution, Republicans ended up with a man who let his opinions be swayed by the polls & ultimately lost by a huge margin to an insubstantial rock star.

Ron Paul didn't take votes away from McCain. McCain drove them away. Republicans had a chance to win & pissed it away on one of the worst candidates I've seen in my short life.

Thank you for showing you weren't tuned into the primary process & merely voted party-line.

 

[shooter521]

(spelling folks, spelling)

... inacted

... speach

Yep.

 

[henktermaat]

Since you're obviously not aware of this...Ron Paul was a Republican Primary candidate in the 2008 presidential race. Unfortunately, the mass media played him off as a kook & everyone ate it up. Even though he had better fund raising than most of the Republican primary candidates, he wasn't allowed into the debates & was black listed by the party.

Instead of a man who stands by the US Constitution, Republicans ended up with a man who let his opinions be swayed by the polls & ultimately lost by a huge margin to an insubstantial rock star.

Ron Paul didn't take votes away from McCain. McCain drove them away. Republicans had a chance to win & pissed it away on one of the worst candidates I've seen in my short life.

Thank you for showing you weren't tuned into the primary process & merely voted party-line.

While I agree, I think what Kingnereli was saying that in order to keep Obama from getting elected - it was a bummer that Ron Paul and McCain split the conservative votes. (Lesser of two evils voting). I don't think you can really fairly say that he voted party line.

 

[Fletch]

Since you're obviously not aware of this...Ron Paul was a Republican Primary candidate in the 2008 presidential race. Unfortunately, the mass media played him off as a kook & everyone ate it up. Even though he had better fund raising than most of the Republican primary candidates, he wasn't allowed into the debates & was black listed by the party.

Instead of a man who stands by the US Constitution, Republicans ended up with a man who let his opinions be swayed by the polls & ultimately lost by a huge margin to an insubstantial rock star.

Ron Paul didn't take votes away from McCain. McCain drove them away. Republicans had a chance to win & pissed it away on one of the worst candidates I've seen in my short life.

Thank you for showing you weren't tuned into the primary process & merely voted party-line.

Owned!