I Voted For Obama

[leftsock]

Really? Where?

ETA: Based on polls, it seems like there's a fair number of libertarians, but based on conversations, it seems like it's 75+% hardcore, life-long, card-carrying, moral majority Republicans.

I wonder if some who would call themselves Republicans are really of a mindset that is more in line with the Libertarian platform. Many Republicans dislike the actions of the Democratic Party (and vice versa), but empirical evidence doesn't seem to show much of a difference in their core platforms.

 

[henktermaat]

I wonder if some who would call themselves Republicans are really of a mindset that is more in line with the Libertarian platform. Many Republicans dislike the actions of the Democratic Party (and vice versa), but empirical evidence doesn't seem to show much of a difference in their core platforms.

State said evidence.

 

[Fletch]

I wonder if some who would call themselves Republicans are really of a mindset that is more in line with the Libertarian platform. Many Republicans dislike the actions of the Democratic Party (and vice versa), but empirical evidence doesn't seem to show much of a difference in their core platforms.

I say I'm libertarian, but in my head I'm anti-Keynesian (of course, cause->effect). Since both Republicans and Democrats are Keynesian, and libertarians are the only third party that has a consistent Austrian core, it pretty much puts me in their camp.

 

[kingnereli]

Since you're obviously not aware of this...Ron Paul was a Republican Primary candidate in the 2008 presidential race. Unfortunately, the mass media played him off as a kook & everyone ate it up. Even though he had better fund raising than most of the Republican primary candidates, he wasn't allowed into the debates & was black listed by the party.

Instead of a man who stands by the US Constitution, Republicans ended up with a man who let his opinions be swayed by the polls & ultimately lost by a huge margin to an insubstantial rock star.

Ron Paul didn't take votes away from McCain. McCain drove them away. Republicans had a chance to win & pissed it away on one of the worst candidates I've seen in my short life.

Thank you for showing you weren't tuned into the primary process & merely voted party-line.

I voted for McCain because I like McCain and still do. I would have preferred Huckabee but McCain was almost as good. Of course he tried to drive votes away from Ron Paul. He was trying to get elected. My point is that McCain was the only one with a chance of beating Obama. Any vote that was not for McCain was a factor in getting Obama elected. In the future try not making assumptions about someone you don't know. I "tune in" to the primary process to the degree of paying attention to candidates that actually have a chance of winning. A great candidate with little following does little to keep people like Obama out of office.

 

[Rhys]

Kingnereli: /quote
5. I think evolution is as good of a theory as the theory of gravity.

I didn't really see that many objections to it. I can't really debate what the Bible said since I'm not God, and the Bible is God's word. We should teach this and not intelligent design in schools because its embraced by the scientific community as what's correct.

The "evidence" for evolution is pathetic at best. The biological arguments are the best. Which is really sad. The fossil record, the beginning of life, and more are huge holes in the theory. When you talk about chemical evaluation and probability it gets even more absurd. For example, the chance of a single protein forming by chance even given an unlimited amount of time. Let alone anything that can be considered life.

"Scientific community" you hear that thrown around a lot when talking evolution. I'm going to need you to define that for me. There are a lot of reputable scientists and professors how don't espouse to evaluation. Some of which have been fired or lost tenure for questioning the theory. When you consider this "scientific community" comes to mean something other then what it implies. /quote

Could you please explain why you find the "biological argument" for evolution so "pathetic"? What do you expect from the fossil record for you to not see it as having "huge holes"? Evolution is pretty well accepted fact in academia. The way it happens is pretty well understood... As far as the "scientific community" comment, I hope that you do more research than simply watching the movie Expelled...

 

[Fletch]

I voted for McCain because I like McCain and still do. I would have preferred Huckabee but McCain was almost as good. Of course he tried to drive votes away from Ron Paul. He was trying to get elected. My point is that McCain was the only one with a chance of beating Obama. Any vote that was not for McCain was a factor in getting Obama elected. In the future try not making assumptions about someone you don't know. I "tune in" to the primary process to the degree of paying attention to candidates that actually have a chance of winning. A great candidate with little following does little to keep people like Obama out of office.

And we see how well that strategy worked.

 

[Rhys]

I say I'm libertarian, but in my head I'm anti-Keynesian (of course, cause->effect). Since both Republicans and Democrats are Keynesian, and libertarians are the only third party that has a consistent Austrian core, it pretty much puts me in their camp.

+1 for Fletch, he and I seem to be in the exact same camp.. (Austrian economics etc.)

 

[kingnereli]

I say I'm libertarian, but in my head I'm anti-Keynesian (of course, cause->effect). Since both Republicans and Democrats are Keynesian, and libertarians are the only third party that has a consistent Austrian core, it pretty much puts me in their camp.

+1 for making me look up a term I didn't know.

 

[leftsock]

State said evidence.

Well, it's Friday, almost time to head home, and without doing any actual searching and article finding, I'll have to leave their similarities at:

1. Big government
2. Uncontrolled/irresponsible spending
3. Liberty/freedom-infringing
4. Unnecessary taxation

I challenge anyone to find information where, in practice, in the big picture, they don't share these similarities. (and I gladly welcome that information)

 

[Paco Bedejo]

While I agree, I think what Kingnereli was saying that in order to keep Obama from getting elected - it was a bummer that Ron Paul and McCain split the conservative votes. (Lesser of two evils voting). I don't think you can really fairly say that he voted party line.

He obviously did if he wasn't aware of the primary candidates of his own party...

And I seriously doubt that the 19,000 Ron Paul write-in votes would have saved McCain's sinking oil rig. (Ron Paul wasn't an official candidate beyond the primaries)

Connor’s Blog Blog Archive 2008 Presidential Election: The Popular Vote Count

Obama took 62 million votes
McCain took 55 million votes
All others took less than 1.6 million votes

 

[ntrngr]

Ron,

Forget those old tired liberal and conservative labels! We're all freedom loving Americans! We all need to protect each others rights to be who we are. Progressives want to take that away. Liberals or conservatives are not the enemy. Big government that takes your money and your rights away is the enemy. Fight it at the voting booth. (Unfortunately, we need better choices, so, run for congress!)

Lets all be pro-the-government-should-leave-me-the-hell-alone...

...and stop trying to convert Ron. If he thinks killing fetuses is OK, thats his business. If he wants gays to marry, thats his business too. Its more important that we have the ability to think and do as we wish. Let others do the same. Liberty is important.

The progressives are trying to divide and conquer. They'll screw us all over, liberal and conservative alike!

-NR

 

[Rhys]

+1 for ntrngr! I respect anyone's opinion up to the point that it infringes upon me. Now, that doesn't mean that I can't get somewhat fiery with MY opinions :-)

 

[tenring]

For starters, read "all" of this,

Full text: bin Laden's 'letter to America' | World news | Observer.co.uk

 

[turnandshoot4]

As far as universal healthcare goes we already have it. Don't think so? Here is why. If you have no money and go to a hospital they have to take you in. If they don't, they lose state funding. SO where do you think the sortfall is being paid for? BY US! As long as they aren't paying the hospital has to up the price on everything, thereby making it more expensive for insurance companies.

All because the poor (whom do not have insurance, AND mostly support universal healthcare) went to the hospital and never paid for it.

TANSTAAFL

 

[kingnereli]

This is why I tend to stay out of the politics forum. The liberal gets a pass, but the old fashioned Republican gets chided. Ok. Here is goes...

Could you please explain why you find the "biological argument" for evolution so "pathetic"? What do you expect from the fossil record for you to not see it as having "huge holes"? Evolution is pretty well accepted fact in academia.

For evolution to be true the fossil record should be dripping with missing links. Not just human but for every species. We should see specimen with underdeveloped characteristics that would suggest their evolutionary line. Birds with underdeveloped wings, whales with still separating oral and nasal passageways, something. There should be vast and varied evidence in the fossil record indicating evolution. There isn't. If man has been evolving over hundred of millions of years I shouldn't be able to walk out my back door without tripping over a missing link. The fossil record has monkeys and men. No transitional specimen.

The way it happens is pretty well understood... As far as the "scientific community" comment, I hope that you do more research than simply watching the movie Expelled...

Yes, of coarse. (That was a good movie though. Don't fault me for that.) Don't you think that is a somewhat vague term? Yet it is supposed to give some credence to evolution because it is "acceppted" by "scientific community."

And we see how well that strategy worked.

It worked at least as well as the vote for someone who can't possibly win method. Maybe better because I wasn't inadvertently responsible for Obama's election

 

[Panama]

To the OP;
I already have one reprimand so, as much as I would like to be direct and candid, I think in the best interest of my membership, I should not type another word..................................

 

[henktermaat]

This is why I tend to stay out of the politics forum. The liberal gets a pass, but the old fashioned Republican gets chided. Ok. Here is goes...





It worked at least as well as the vote for someone who can't possibly win method. Maybe better because I wasn't inadvertently responsible for Obama's election

Come on, you hardcore libertarians- this man has some good points here...

 

[Fletch]

This is why I tend to stay out of the politics forum. The liberal gets a pass, but the old fashioned Republican gets chided. Ok. Here is goes...

If you've been reading the other posts in this thread, you know that there's some dispute as to whether we're largely Republican or largely libertarian or something else.

Besides, the liberal gets a pass because the sense of the group seems to be that it would be poor form to pile on the obvious target. You're being chided by someone who has a bone to pick on a particular topic, not because you're an old fashioned Republican. You say something someone disagrees with, they'll probably pick an argument with you. Trust me, I've done it plenty of times. At least it gives you practice defending what you believe.

It worked at least as well as the vote for someone who can't possibly win method. Maybe better because I wasn't inadvertently responsible for Obama's election

Without the benefit of time travel, we'll probably never know. It's just possible that Ron Paul is the Republican everyone's talking about when they say we need a good old-fashioned conservative. "Electability" is an ephemeral term that means whatever the speaker/writer wants it to mean. If RP were the nominee, I don't think there would have been a lot of Republicans simply staying home on the basis of his unelectability.

More to the point, I don't think there would have been a lot of independents staying home. There's a whole passel of them who stay home on the basis of wanting a "real choice" between candidates... a choice that has not been offered in at least 3 or 4 electoral cycles (or more, depending on how cynical you want to be). Now it's true that some of them may have broken for Obama, but it's also true that a lot of conservative-leaning moderates and independents stayed home because McCain had all the distinction of soggy toast.

 

[Paco Bedejo]

This is why I tend to stay out of the politics forum. The liberal gets a pass, but the old fashioned Republican gets chided. Ok. Here is goes...

It worked at least as well as the vote for someone who can't possibly win method. Maybe better because I wasn't inadvertently responsible for Obama's election

Connor’s Blog Blog Archive 2008 Presidential Election: The Popular Vote Count

You're gonna have to show me where your calculator shows that 1.6 million more votes would have given McCain the win... Is it some crazy electoral college math?

I was at least trying to give a 3rd party 10% of the popular vote to secure public financing. Voting for one party to stop the other is ridiculous...especially considering that both of the top two parties only accomplish the systematic ruin of our nation...

 

[henktermaat]

I am going to go away for awhile. I want this thread to be at 200 or 300 posts by 9pm this evening. You have your orders.