Here Comes the Executive Order on Background Checks

[IndyDave1776]

I really don't get why people are hung up on something that should have ceased to be an issue pages ago. When did being respectful of someone else's time become a bad thing?

You need to stop trying to make this about you. The cheeseburger thing has been a running joke with Churchmouse since Christ was lying in a manger. You simply reminded of them and they are running with it, like they generally do when it gets started.

 

[IndyDave1776]

I know this will come as a shock to a large amount of INGO, but there are people who own guns, like guns, and like to shoot to whom the defense of the 2nd Amendment is not the end all, be all of their existence. There are political and social issues that affect them on a daily basis that may be a bigger concern to them than the latest news of another potential infringement on the 2A. Occasionally, one of them wanders into a place like this and the dogpile begins. They eventually leave with all their preconceived notions of what us "gun nuts" are really like firmly reinforced.

Do you like having rights? Would you prefer to live as a subject rather than a citizen? Do you not understand that if one enumerated right is subject to being treated as a conditional and revocable privilege, then all rights, real or imagined, are likewise subject to the whim of the government?

 

[churchmouse]

I know this will come as a shock to a large amount of INGO, but there are people who own guns, like guns, and like to shoot to whom the defense of the 2nd Amendment is not the end all, be all of their existence. There are political and social issues that affect them on a daily basis that may be a bigger concern to them than the latest news of another potential infringement on the 2A. Occasionally, one of them wanders into a place like this and the dogpile begins. They eventually leave with all their preconceived notions of what us "gun nuts" are really like firmly reinforced.

This is just the tip of the iceberg ghuns.
Any individual or party that would attack the constitution on any level is wrong thinking.
That is the end all in this. If they get their nose under the tent then what is next. They will not stop with the 2A as once the damn is cracked they will let all the water out and become kings queens and so on. That is the issue. The 2A is the 1st step. Whats next.

 

[Lowe0]

You need to stop trying to make this about you. The cheeseburger thing has been a running joke with Churchmouse since Christ was lying in a manger. You simply reminded of them and they are running with it, like they generally do when it gets started.

I've been here long enough to be aware of the reference. That's not the part of the quoted post that I was talking about.

 

[ghuns]

Do you like having rights?

Yes. And I like them all. Even the ones that Republicans have voted to take away from me. Even the ones that people enjoy that I do not practice or condone.

 

[churchmouse]

I really don't get why people are hung up on something that should have ceased to be an issue pages ago. When did being respectful of someone else's time become a bad thing?

If someone offers their time you are not being disrespectful in taking them up on it.
My time is valuable....precious even. But, when I see an opportunity to share some range time and a burger in an attempt to understand an issue and possibly put some light on that issue it is OK with me.
If you were actually active out in the forum you would know the burger summit was something I came up with to put a face on an avatar and settle differences over a meal as men. "No" one has accepted the invite in this context and it has been put out there.
Many have met me at a pub to have seared cow flesh and just get to know each other.
Once the burger summit is put out there it will take on a life of its own.
No one has ever been yelled at, treated poorly or threatened at a summit.

We are grown men after all.

 

[churchmouse]

Yes. And I like them all. Even the ones that Republicans have voted to take away from me. Even the ones that people enjoy that I do not practice or condone.

In reality all politicians suck at some level. It just seems the Dems suck harder right now.

 

[IndyDave1776]

Yes. And I like them all. Even the ones that Republicans have voted to take away from me. Even the ones that people enjoy that I do not practice or condone.

We are in agreement this far. Do you think you are going to keep any rights if you start the argument by conceding that rights are negotiable?

 

[ArcadiaGP]

Paul Ryan press release on President taking anti-2A action

Statement on Potential Executive Action to Restrict 2nd Amendment Rights | Speaker.gov

 

[dieselrealtor]

...... The 2A is the 1st step. Whats next.

The 1st, 4th & 12th. Not necessarily in that order

 

[87iroc]

I'm tired of everyone beating the drum about the EO's. I get 20 posts a day on FB about 'pre-emptive' crap like this. I think Obama starts announcing it and drags it out like a month to make everyone go spastic...thus making them look tinfoil-hat-esque. Then issues his orders .People spaz out some more...and it goes away. But the constant 'he's coming for your guns' and 'he's going to turn the sky pink with the stroke of his pen' only stands to make it seem like no matter what he does...he's doing more than he actually is.

Until he issues the actual order(at which point, I think we need a new 'official' thread')...I'm kind of tired of hearing about it.

Yah, it'll do nothing, yah, its all posturing, but in the past he's done almost nothing and you'd think prior to his pen hitting the paper...the world was coming to an end.

I say all that and my gun I need to get 4473'd later this week as it should be in from where I bought it...hope I didn't just shoot myself in the foot...lol.

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

Jesus am I the only one who's not gotten a free cheeseburger?

No!

 

[Bill of Rights]

I used to be a liberal. Is that free dinner still available?

Used to be, but still asking for a handout? Sounds like you still are!

I am not driving to west Timbuktu.......

How about flying?

Nah.....last time I did this I was stuck up on a windmill.
Cousin had to fly up and get me down.

Your cousin? Is this him?

Seriously? Attack his position with facts and logic, not condescending remarks.

No condescension about it. We dealt with those two issues in tandem at some length, just not in this thread. He made his position on his priorities between the two extremely clear.

It is an accurate summation of Lowe0's priority.

It's less the issue of the summation and more the phrasing. For example, someone could say that equal rights (not special, just equal) for people of same gender who want to marry is less important to you than that you want to play with devices that are often used to maim or kill people. Saying it in that way is inflammatory. Note that I've not said that I agree or disagree with the summation, only the phraseology.

I've purchased too

I have to make my own cheeseburgers...

Aha! FINALLY some people with conservative values! Never forget, the conservative signs the front of the check, the liberal signs the back.

No. Seriously, so many crazy hypotheses instead of the much simpler possibility that someone can enjoy shooting and still not think that the Republican Party would best lead the country.

What makes the culture war so important that the party is willing to turn away voters who otherwise could help support gun rights?

Most of the above (that I typed, anyway) is meant tongue-in-cheek and teasing. That which relates to you, above, and here as well is meant more seriously. No offense in that, it's just that this is more where I have to put the mod hat on and address something in the spirit of moderating a discussion. What you say in the quote preceding this comment could be. I can't say that you're a troll, and I honestly think perhaps you are not, but that you are as attached to your beliefs as are the rest of us to our own. What you suggest is best exemplified in someone's approach to the group, "Pink Pistols". For those who don't know, my understanding of this group is that they advocate against the persecution of LGBTQs and do so by fostering a spirit of self-reliance in them; they are armed and ready if placed in a position where they must defend themselves with deadly force. Traditionally, LGBTQs have been neither accepting of "right wing" views for obvious reasons, and conversely, the right wing has been unaccepting of them as well for the same reasons. This group has blurred and crossed the lines, however, and for the benefit of all. Their members get good instruction and regular range time and we benefit from their votes, but more so for the realization that those with some Leftist beliefs and/or practices are not "the enemy". We all need to realize that we need all the friends we can get.

Like you, I don't think the Republican party, as it exists and is led today, can best lead the country. I think the Democratic party would do a worse job, as our current rectum in charge at 1600 Pennsylvania Ave has proven. Quite simply, I'd prefer to see true libertarians (not specifically the party members) in charge, people who would drastically and precipitously shrink government.

Realistically, however, one of the two big parties is going to win the majority of elections. Even if the voting machines aren't rigged to ensure that (a hypothesis that is nowhere near debunked,) the paradigm and the national narrative are. Given that one or the other is going to be in charge, for those who post here, our RKBA freedoms are paramount in importance, by and large. Not 100% of us, but most. I understand you to be saying that the RKBA is of lesser importance to you than, for example, the right to choose your partner from all available options rather than only that 50% with plumbing that differs from yours. While both parties have done things against the RKBA, those who align themselves with the (D) faction have openly embraced civilian disarmament, other than for those who protect and defend them, personally. Those who align on the (R) side at a minimum usually pay lip service to the RKBA, and some hold it as dear in their hearts as Bloomberg, Soros, Clinton, Feinstein, and/or Schumer hold its destruction.

Blessings,
Bill

 

[billmyn]

Originally Posted by churchmouse I would personally like to thank all who voted this petulant child into office.......twice.
I am amazed that any gun owner could ever think he was a friend of the people and for the 2A.
What were you people thinking......or were you.....?????


I don't feel that any constitutional minded person voted for him, they did worst by not voting at all. Not once but twice and if they don't wake up and realize that we must all do our part we will likely loose more of our Freedom. Every American citizen has a duty an obligation to vote whether Democrat Republican or Other get your lazy _ _ _ _ up and go vote. Because the puppet masters are counting on you not voting.

 

[avboiler11]

Prognostication: any executive order issued this week will amount to sound and fury signifying absolutely nothing to the overwhelming majority of gun owners while doing absolutely nothing to tangibly reduce "gun violence" (which is in a 21+ year decline)...but having the appearance of doing something.

The only wildcard, as I see it, is if some variation of 41P gets implemented this week which *again* would do jack squat to actually reduce crime but plays to the progressive base as doing "something", even though anybody objective could see it is a solution in search of a problem.

 

[pudly]

Prognostication: any executive order issued this week will amount to sound and fury signifying absolutely nothing to the overwhelming majority of gun owners while doing absolutely nothing to tangibly reduce "gun violence" (which is in a 21+ year decline)...but having the appearance of doing something.

The only wildcard, as I see it, is if some variation of 41P gets implemented this week which *again* would do jack squat to actually reduce crime but plays to the progressive base as doing "something", even though anybody objective could see it is a solution in search of a problem.

Reducing crime is not the goal, it is the excuse. The goal is restricting gun owners. It will be successful in dealing with that "problem".

 

[SteveM4A1]

4. You should also consider that gun rights ARE A HUGE PART OF THE CULTURE WAR. Asking someone why he won't jettison the cultural issue just doesn't make sense. The entire issue turns on truncating a constitutional right in deference to the irrational fears of a certain voting bloc which, in turn, is fostered by politicians who clearly understand the Second Amendment and the reason it was included in the Constitution--which does not bode well for some of their aspirations if they can't get rid of it. Let me remind you that if an enumerated constitutional right can be either eliminated or ignored as legislation contrary to that right is passed, any contrived right that you think you are gaining is NOT in fact a right, but a conditional privilege granted at the pleasure of the government. Don't ever forget that.

Very well put. There are many aspects to the "culture war".

It's less the issue of the summation and more the phrasing. For example, someone could say that equal rights (not special, just equal) for people of same gender who want to marry is less important to you than that you want to play with devices that are often used to maim or kill people. Saying it in that way is inflammatory. Note that I've not said that I agree or disagree with the summation, only the phraseology.

This was the point I was going to make.

 

[cobber]

Used to be, but still asking for a handout? Sounds like you still are!

Maybe...

Do you like having rights? Would you prefer to live as a subject rather than a citizen? Do you not understand that if one enumerated right is subject to being treated as a conditional and revocable privilege, then all rights, real or imagined, are likewise subject to the whim of the government?

The 1st, 4th & 12th. Not necessarily in that order

6th Amendment re trial and the right to confrontation.

Or how about stripping away the rules of evidence? Allow the government to present hearsay through police officers. Don't require foundation for exhibits. Prior bad acts admissible to prove "propensity". Eliminate the exclusionary rule. More exigencies for bad searches.

Many of these would require no change in the Constitution...

 

[JollyMon]

I said it before and Ill say it again...... FBHO

ohh.... and tagging for updates

 

[ArcadiaGP]

Obama says his gun control executive actions are consistent with second amendment right to bear arms. Pres says his executive actions won't prevent every crime and mass shooting but will potentially save lives.

says he'll be rolling out his executive actions on guns over the next several days.

https://twitter.com/jeffmason1/status/684099373362458624