Four Minneapolis officers fired after death of black man

[smokingman]

Tear gas causes covid-19 infections...according to the New York times using it will be responsible for an increase in cases.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/03/us/tear-gas-risks-protests-coronavirus.html

That is one hell of a shovel.

 

[SwikLS]

Even if all of those things are true, which who knows on twitter, that still doesn’t excuse the officer’s use of excessive force.

ok fine but if those things are true then he didn't commit murder.

 

[OakRiver]

https://twitter.com/StefanMolyneux/status/1267834032550817792?s=20

that pretty much sums it up right now

Lets be generous and assume all that is true. What part of that excuses the conduct of the officers, and their apparent use of excessive force?

 

[SwikLS]

Lets be generous and assume all that is true. What part of that excuses the conduct of the officers, and their apparent use of excessive force?

not saying that it does. i'm just saying its not murder (again if true).

Edit: and if there isn't additional evidence outside the public domain to the contrary.

 

[jsharmon7]

not saying that it does. i'm just saying its not murder (again if true).

If you read the MN stature on 3rd degree murder, it fits this situation to a T.

 

[SwikLS]

If you read the MN stature on 3rd degree murder, it fits this situation to a T.

for cops escalating a detainment because the detainee is resisting arrest then it really doesn't

 

[T.Lex]

Blacks constitute 13% of the population, and commit 43% of all violent crime.

At the risk of dredging up this hours-old issue. I highlighted the problematic word.

Black people are arrested and convicted for that percentage of violent crime. The statistic for actual crimes committed is as unknowable as the actual number of people in the US who have coronavirus.

"Commit" requires assumptions that I would have expected you to identify. It is shorthand that carries serious implications.

The arrest/conviction is where the nuance comes in, and includes socioeconomic and systemic factors.

Apologies if this was pointed out earlier and I missed it.

 

[tv1217]

Boots aren't edible, stop trying so hard.

 

[chipbennett]

"Convenient" pallets of bricks have been showing up in cities across the country in riot areas.

https://www.foxnews.com/us/random-piles-of-bricks-reported-at-george-floyd-protests

In New York, St Louis, Dallas, Kansas City, San Francisco, etc. I wonder who would do that?

I would say Antifa, but according to the other thread, some think that they are not an organization but rather a "movement".

 

[chipbennett]

Even if all of those things are true, which who knows on twitter, that still doesn’t excuse the officer’s use of excessive force.

Exactly. That the police officer's excessive use of force resulted in death because Floyd was susceptible to heart attack due to drug use, etc. does not justify the officer's excessive use of force. The death resulted from the action of the officer. That's why the ME's report says "homicide".

 

[chipbennett]

ok fine but if those things are true then he didn't commit murder.

How do you figure? (And, IIRC, he was charged with some degree of murder, and manslaughter.) The actions of the officer directly caused and resulted in Floyd's death.

 

[daddyusmaximus]

 

[chipbennett]

At the risk of dredging up this hours-old issue. I highlighted the problematic word.

Black people are arrested and convicted for that percentage of violent crime. The statistic for actual crimes committed is as unknowable as the actual number of people in the US who have coronavirus.

"Commit" requires assumptions that I would have expected you to identify. It is shorthand that carries serious implications.

The arrest/conviction is where the nuance comes in, and includes socioeconomic and systemic factors.

Apologies if this was pointed out earlier and I missed it.

Does it really change the point of the statement to say "are arrested for", rather than "commit"? Fine: Blacks constitute 13% of the population, and are arrested for 43% of all violent crime.

(Do you really believe there to be sufficient disparity between the relative rate of commission of violent crime and arrest for such crime? If I looked it up, would I find that the clearance rate for violent crime against white victims - overwhelmingly committed by white offenders - is higher or lower than the clearance rate for violent crime against black victims - overwhelmingly committed by black offenders? Because the only way your underlying complaint is in any way germane is if there are disproportionately more black offenders getting arrested for violent crimes than there are white offenders getting arrested for violent crimes - and I don't think that holds true. I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure the clearance rate for violent crimes against white victims is higher than the clearance rate for violent crimes against black victims.)

 

[T.Lex]

Does it really change the point of the statement to say "are arrested for", rather than "commit"? Fine: Blacks constitute 13% of the population, and are arrested for 43% of all violent crime.

If accuracy is important, then yes, that would be better.

The rest of your post relates to the nuances.

 

[chipbennett]

If accuracy is important, then yes, that would be better.

The rest of your post relates to the nuances.

What you call "nuance", I call "distinction without a difference" - particularly in the context of the current discussion.

 

[T.Lex]

What you call "nuance", I call "distinction without a difference" - particularly in the context of the current discussion.

Tomato, tomato.

 

[jamil]

In otherwords violent rebellion against basic rule of law, is their actual objective.

Yeah. That's not their objective though. It's a means to the end objective. For the Antifa types. They want to sow civil disorder. They want to start a revolution. The end of the revolution is to get rid of the state, get rid of capitalism. So many of them propose anarco-communism. I'm not just interpreting their actions through my own world view. This is what they're saying.

 

[Hookeye]

If cops are out to kill black men, and they've been at it for years.......why do so many black men continue do things that mandate police attention?
You'd think they'd try to avoid them.
The wounded and or dead usually have a violent record. Hmmmmm.

Does police brutality happen?
Sure.

But I think black brutality against society to be a much bigger problem.

Their culture sucks and I didn't do it.

White privilege..............you mean having as mom and dad raise a kid to get an education and be self supportive?
Demanding decent behavior?

Why is that a white thing and not just a thing?

Aren't black people free to subscribe to such thinking?

Guess not. Thats on them, not me.

 

[Phase2]

At the risk of dredging up this hours-old issue. I highlighted the problematic word.

Black people are arrested and convicted for that percentage of violent crime. The statistic for actual crimes committed is as unknowable as the actual number of people in the US who have coronavirus.

"Commit" requires assumptions that I would have expected you to identify. It is shorthand that carries serious implications.

The arrest/conviction is where the nuance comes in, and includes socioeconomic and systemic factors.

Apologies if this was pointed out earlier and I missed it.

Actually, a very good measure of crime by race is by victim reports. I'm sure it will come as a complete surprise to you that they actually are pretty close to the FBI statistics.

 

[Hookeye]

Yeah. That's not their objective though. It's a means to the end objective. For the Antifa types. They want to sow civil disorder. They want to start a revolution. I'm not just interpreting their actions through my own world view. This is what they're saying.

They think they want a revolution.
They are self made social outcasts that want attention.
Since they refuse to assimilate they want to assassinate.
Punks and thugs..............they need crushed.

They're asking for it and they're gonna get it one of these days.
Not just one here or there, but collectively.
They have no clue whats coming.

Good people are getting sick of the BS