Four Minneapolis officers fired after death of black man

[Alpo]

Dammit I'm too slow.

I'm sure you were thinking, oh, ****. I better correct that before jamil gets old of it.

jamil...who?

 

[jamil]

ain't nobody

 

[mmpsteve]

Two things:
Perception can sometimes lead to a self-fulfilling result.
Perception, or what you think generally about group, should not dictate how one responds to the individual.

...oh, and I’m back on the prowl.

Welcome back, Mr. K. I spent about 7 weeks down in the 'Bama hood this spring, helping my folks. Hope your's are doing well.

.

 

[nonobaddog]

So what exactly are you guys saying?

I don't blindly believe studies where they blame environment for a problem and then blame outside influence for the environment.
This ignores individual responsibility and group responsibility, if you will.

 

[printcraft]

No....he is not.

I think I'm gonna hold out for one of those Aluminists NKBJ is talking about. Have to start a GoFundMe page though. I don't have a $Billion ... yet.

Well. Maybe RIT. (Republican In Training)

Closeted republican... small r...

 

[jamil]

I don't blindly believe studies where they blame environment for a problem and then blame outside influence for the environment.
This ignores individual responsibility and group responsibility, if you will.

Responsibility has its place, certainly. It's one factor. One which I even brought that up in my post. But apparently people didn't read past a buzzword they're pre-programmed to reject. And what makes you think that I blindly accept it? Couldn't I just as easily claim you've blindly rejected it? Where does that get us?

It's not just poverty alone, and that was not my point. It's poverty juxtaposed with wealth. The Gini index studies have been global. Not just in the US. It crosses many different cultures, across nations. Areas with a high gini indexes generally tend to have more crime. Of course there are exceptions. It's just one of many factors. It just happens to have the highest correlation of the factors, and that correlation is fairly high.

High gini indexes mean starker differences between wealth in surrounding areas. So if everyone's poor, lower gini index, lower crime. If everyone has wealth, lower gini index, lower crime. But higher gini index, higher crime. Is it because of jealousy? I think there's a simpler explanation than that. People make pragmatic decisions based on cost/benefit. What do they want? How can they go about getting it?

So if you live in an affluent area where most people have comfortable incomes, there's obviously plenty of opportunities for everyone. There are few cost/benefit analyses that end with you thinking that you need to take someone else's ****. If you live in widespread poverty, where everyone else lives in poverty too, again, very few cost/benefit analyses make it worth stealing from your neighbors. If you live in a poor neighborhood that's near another more affluent neighborhood, now there's opportunity. At least I think that's reasonably explains at least part of why gini index correlates with crime. Maybe resentment could explain some of the violence.

But gini index is just one factor.

 

[tbhausen]

It sounds like Seattle has had enough of CHOP... Good. Time to put them down.

 

[Phase2]

It sounds like Seattle has had enough of CHOP... Good. Time to put them down.

That will be interesting. As if the Seattle police don't have enough of a PR and morale problem. How exactly does their mayor beta propose to clear it?

Seattle will move to dismantle protest zone, mayor says

 

[rkwhyte2]

It sounds like Seattle has had enough of CHOP... Good. Time to put them down.

It will be interesting to see how this plays out. They have more than a few weapons inside that area.

 

[jamil]

It sounds like Seattle has had enough of CHOP... Good. Time to put them down.

[video]https://q13fox.com/2020/06/22/chop-seattle-mayor-walks-back-summer-of-love-comment/[/video]

Ya think?

 

[nonobaddog]

Responsibility has its place, certainly. It's one factor. One which I even brought that up in my post. But apparently people didn't read past a buzzword they're pre-programmed to reject. And what makes you think that I blindly accept it? Couldn't I just as easily claim you've blindly rejected it? Where does that get us?

It's not just poverty alone, and that was not my point. It's poverty juxtaposed with wealth. The Gini index studies have been global. Not just in the US. It crosses many different cultures, across nations. Areas with a high gini indexes generally tend to have more crime. Of course there are exceptions. It's just one of many factors. It just happens to have the highest correlation of the factors, and that correlation is fairly high.

High gini indexes mean starker differences between wealth in surrounding areas. So if everyone's poor, lower gini index, lower crime. If everyone has wealth, lower gini index, lower crime. But higher gini index, higher crime. Is it because of jealousy? I think there's a simpler explanation than that. People make pragmatic decisions based on cost/benefit. What do they want? How can they go about getting it?

So if you live in an affluent area where most people have comfortable incomes, there's obviously plenty of opportunities for everyone. There are few cost/benefit analyses that end with you thinking that you need to take someone else's ****. If you live in widespread poverty, where everyone else lives in poverty too, again, very few cost/benefit analyses make it worth stealing from your neighbors. If you live in a poor neighborhood that's near another more affluent neighborhood, now there's opportunity. At least I think that's reasonably explains at least part of why gini index correlates with crime. Maybe resentment could explain some of the violence.

But gini index is just one factor.

OK, I just reread your post and I still don't see where you approached individual responsibility.

Also I did NOT say that you blindly accepted anything. I simply stated I don't. I have no idea how long you have studied the material in your post. You appear to accept the material in your post but I do not think of you as a person that blindly accepts very much at all.

Your post ends with "most of the problems are environmental" but does not seem to consider how much the people within this environment are responsible for it - for better or for worse.

 

[maxwelhse]

That will be interesting. As if the Seattle police don't have enough of a PR and morale problem. How exactly does their mayor beta propose to clear it?

Seattle will move to dismantle protest zone, mayor says

Isn't this the same Mayor that said it was a block party not more than a week ago?

 

[tbhausen]

Isn't this the same Mayor that said it was a block party not more than a week ago?

it’s all fun and games until the bullets start flying.

 

[jamil]

OK, I just reread your post and I still don't see where you approached individual responsibility.

Also I did NOT say that you blindly accepted anything. I simply stated I don't. I have no idea how long you have studied the material in your post. You appear to accept the material in your post but I do not think of you as a person that blindly accepts very much at all.

Your post ends with "most of the problems are environmental" but does not seem to consider how much the people within this environment are responsible for it - for better or for worse.

That’s reflective of circumstances they by themselves did not create collectively. The crime is a result of a many factors. Poverty in proximity to wealth creates pockets of crime, especially violent crime. The Gini Index, an index that measures income inequality, has been shown to be about the best predictor of violent crime in a given area. Many US cities have Gini indexes similar to the 3rd world countries with some of the highest crime rates. Another factor is the welfare state of dependency. It fosters a sense of entitlement and incentivizes fatherless homes. Democrat programs have largely created some cultural norms that perpetuates those problems.

The fatherless problem creates many of those disadvantages in itself. Many cultures value reputation and that’s usually a good thing. It incentivizes hard work, honesty, and pride in one’s work. But if not tempered by discipline it fosters a dangerous attitude of demanding unearned respect. Most of these inner city shootings aren’t drug deals gone bad or turf wars between rival gangs as much as it is about disputes over respect between individuals.

It isn’t just a “black” thing. You’ll find that the black crime statistics closely correlates with poverty rates among black people. A higher percentage of black people live in poverty compared with white people. Is that due to heritable characteristics in black people? That’s absurd. Look at black people around the world and you’ll find a lot of diversity among them. Most of the problems are environmental.

The highlighted paragraph is all about personal responsibility. Personal responsibility is the thing enables liberty because it makes people trustworthy enough not to be tyrannized. It's not imbued at birth to white people and then just skips over black people. It's taught. That's environmental. If you don't teach your kids, they won't have it. If you don't have it, your kids likely won't either, unless they're fortunate enough to learn it from someone else. Your personal responsibility was taught to you, likely by your family in an environment where personal responsibility was a priority.

Black people teach their kids personal responsibility too, just like white people do. And some white people don't teach their kids personal responsibility. But in inner cities it's less so. For whatever reasons. That's environmental. In other words, they're not born with any more innate desire for violence than anyone else. We're all pretty much running the same firmware. To not exercise our basic desires for self, we must learn discipline, usually taught to us by our parents.

 

[Kutnupe14]

Thank you everybody for their kind words. Family is A-ok, but I’ve had friends that haven’t been doing all the great. Two have died from the Covid, and a bunch others sick. Between that and work, I’ve been run so ragged that I didn’t have time to mix it up on INGO. Things are returning to normalcy, so I be about a tad more often.

 

[Kutnupe14]

You missed much of the usual...foszoe has been carrying your banner since you've been gone.












Oh, and Alpo is now a republican.

wait , what????

 

[jamil]

That will be interesting. As if the Seattle police don't have enough of a PR and morale problem. How exactly does their mayor beta propose to clear it?

Seattle will move to dismantle protest zone, mayor says

If we had an honest press they'd report on how that little experiment in anarchy worked out. Within hours of the police abandoning the precinct they erected a border, with checkpoints, they started checking people's ID's, they choked a "suspect" in much the same way that started this whole mess. A rapper turned warlord assumed leadership of this territory. They first segregated their "garden" by race, and eventually started segregating the whole area by race. The point that should be communicated to everyone is that the system they created was no better, in fact they behaved WORSE than the system they replaced.

This was a microcosm of their own scaled utopia. We got to see an example of the world the left proposes. And it really sucks.

 

[Alpo]

wait , what????

Nah. Never. Bad economic theory on that side of the house....although the've been uber-Keynesians through the pandemic.

And Trump.

Never.

 

[maxwelhse]

The highlighted paragraph is all about personal responsibility. Personal responsibility is the thing enables liberty because it makes people trustworthy enough not to be tyrannized.

I don't have a dog in the whole race thing going on here (I'm delighted to hate people of all colors equally), but it's interesting that you put that the way you did.

I just had a chat with a coworker who framed liberty in an interesting way and it goes somewhat counter to your point. I only mention it because I did find it interesting and it's somewhat applicable here. His take was that liberty isn't about what "you" do as you're going to do whatever you want anyhow. Liberty is about what someone else is allowed to do. So, in his mind and as it applies here, it's the exact opposite of a personal responsibility thing and is entirely an environmental thing. I was reasonably inclined to agree with him.

 

[jamil]

Nah. Never. Bad economic theory on that side of the house....although the've been uber-Keynesians through the pandemic.

And Trump.

Never.

Keynesian economics is a pandemic unto itself.