DeSantis 2024?

[Ingomike]

It's 168 days (5 months 15 days) to the very first primary/caucus vote... the fat lady hasn't even arrived at the opera house yet...

You don’t know what time it is either. Thanks for sharing…

 

[KG1]

Howbout skipping the vagueness and just say what you mean?

 

[SheepDog4Life]

You don’t know what time it is either. Thanks for sharing…

15 days until Trump files with the FEC how much money he's spent on legal fees to prevent his patsies from flipping?

 

[Ingomike]

Howbout skipping the vagueness and just say what you mean?

If You Don't Know What Time It Is, Get Out Of Politics Now

Americans must understand that the ruling class seeks total power, is closing in on it, and will stop at nothing to achieve it.

thefederalist.com

 

[Destro]

15 days until Trump files with the FEC how much money he's spent on legal fees to prevent his patsies from flipping?

I've seen reports today it is $40mil in 2023 alone.

 

[jamil]

As I said, you don’t know what time it is…

Or maybe you think you know.

 

[jamil]

You don’t know what time it is either. Thanks for sharing…

I'm not sure you even have a clock. For you it's Trump time all the time. I'm sorry but I'm just not wired for venerating human beings. You think that guy in the crowd in the video someone posted, in which he yelled out, "you're my hero!" knows what time it is?

Are you one of those? I mean. Doesn't that feel a little culty to you. Even a little?

 

[jamil]

If You Don't Know What Time It Is, Get Out Of Politics Now

Americans must understand that the ruling class seeks total power, is closing in on it, and will stop at nothing to achieve it.

thefederalist.com

Yeah, yeah, yeah, we all know that. What does that have to do with my post outlining the disingenuous tactics a teal ideologue uses to dodge legitimate criticisms? It's like you didn't read any of it. You just went into mode.

 

[BugI02]

I saw that. It’s possible I accidentally tapped on that. But anyway, that was just a reply to another poster. It wasn’t even a main point. But you sure got your hardon going over it.

Says the poster that just the other day jumped all over I post I made in answer to bjcatty

I guess exhibiting all the flaws and proclivities you dislike makes them easier to spot in others? I think there's a name for that

 

[jamil]

Howbout skipping the vagueness and just say what you mean?

If You Don't Know What Time It Is, Get Out Of Politics Now

Americans must understand that the ruling class seeks total power, is closing in on it, and will stop at nothing to achieve it.

thefederalist.com

See? He still can't say what he's saying. He said it in response to my post, wherein nothing was said by me that had anything to do with the powers that be or their goals. That post was about a certain class of Trumper who can only think in binaries, which causes this you-either-love-trump-or-youre-the-enemy line of thought.

If he really knew what time it is, he wouldn't make such petty dodges. He'd seek to find common ground with allies who know what time it is. But no. It's Trump or nobody even if that sentiment seals the victory for TPTB.

 

[BugI02]

So can I make the point any clearer? A person can simultaneously not hate Trump, and not love Trump. I shouldn’t have to tell you that. It should be easily intuited as true, like any other obvious logical tautology.

Too bad the real is so mean and has so little in common with debate club, eh?

 

[oze]

You don’t know what time it is either. Thanks for sharing…

Wait, nobody took this one? OK, I will. Obtuse classic rock reference incoming:

Does anybody really care?

 

[jamil]

Says the poster that just the other day jumped all over I post I made in answer to bjcatty

I guess exhibiting all the flaws and proclivities you dislike makes them easier to spot in others? I think there's a name for that

This the only dodge you got? Whataboutism is a claim of hypocrisy, usually as a dodge. What I recall saying to you, and I don't know if this is what you're referring to or not, is that you state facts that are true, but pursuant to making them fit a narrative that allows you to make reality bend to your goal. And that goal is usually whataboutism.

For example, the snide "not his guy" nonsense that you like to drop occasionally. I criticized the idea of having a guy. And instead of challenging or defending against that point, you try to change reality and do this backhanded insinuation, without any evidence, that I have the same kind of cult-like loyalty to DeSantis that you have for Trump.

My body of posts, which has established over the 12 years I've been on INGO, that I've been very consistent on what I think about politicians. It is folly to put your faith, devotion, and blind trust into any person, and especially a person who wants power over you. So that stands in stark contrast with the story you've been trying to weave.

There is a point that DeSantis is nearing where I'd drop him like a used rubber. That thinking is an asset, not a liability. I'm not sure Trump could do anything that would cause you not to follow him off a cliff if that's where he's heading. So maybe try to be a bit more honest and defend that rather than tealing up some bull**** what-about nonsense.

 

[KG1]

Seems to me the gist of the meaning of "knowing what time it is" according to the article is recognizing what the stakes are if conservatism doesn't win in 2024. Trump isn't the only one running that is aware of the political stakes. DeSantis has shown that he is as well and that's why he said he made the decision to step up and run now instead of "waiting his turn" until 2028.

 

[BugI02]

Personally I think DeSantis would make a good president, but he lacks the same thing many of the republican candidates do, charisma. Something Trump has in spades. It's that magic ability/issue some have that can get people moving. The last example of this I can think of was Glen Youngkin unleashing a crusade against the education industrial complex in Virginia, sinking McAuliff's campaign with it.

A negative example would be Gavin Newsom who was a bad mayor, bad governor, and will surely be a bad president, but he has that smiley, nice hair X factor that keeps his career in politics going.

The education/groomer issue is still out there, somebody needs to pick it up and turn it into a national jihad, pulling the electorate along with it.

dc delenda est!

Unfortunately, there is a strong tendency by a subset of INGO to ignore that factor and stick to the calculus that DeSantis can win over a few 'independents' and 'neverTrump Republicans' and somehow that will result in him winning the general where Trump could not

That formulation erroneously presupposes that there will be no losses of Trump republican votes that will need to be made up for, which is wishful thinking. Seems to me the expectation that managing, by hook or by crook, to force the nomination of an unexciting candidate will inevitably result in loss of enthusiasm for the election - See: McCain and Romney candidacies - and thus the important consideration is whether nominating anyone else but Trump results in a net loss of Republican votes. To speak of electability while ignoring that elephant in the room seems the height of hubris

As I have been at pains to point out, I have not seen a way to quantify the outcomes of the possibilities that is anything other than opinion dressed up as careful consideration, and to take for granted that the large plurality that wants Trump is fickle, feckless and can be coerced to support a lesser choice en masse is delusional and will end in tears

 

[jamil]

Too bad the real is so mean and has so little in common with debate club, eh?

Mean? What does that have to do with anything? Are you trying to figure out what's real or not? Are you just trying to deflect away from your adoration for orange?

My opinion of reality is this, Trump has a lot of good policies that I think would be effective, but he has a lot of faults that keeps impeding his ability to bring it about. Will DeSantis be any better at it? In my opinion yes, because he does not have a lot of those faults. However, he has not shown the political savvy necessary to compete with Trump's cult-like persona and following. And then add the bump Trump gets from being indicted, at least as it is now, I'm not sure DeSantis can even overcome that if he pulled the most savvy political moves. That's the reality of what I think.

But no. You have to mutealate what I actually think into something I don't think, so that you can attack it. Why not just be honest and face the criticisms of your ideas head on. I put mine out there, and sometimes they stand, sometimes they fall. But you what-abouting everything is essentially you hiding from them. A dodge is deflecting away from a point you do not wish to argue, usually due to vulnerability of your position. What-abouting is a dodge.

 

[jamil]

Seems to me the gist of the meaning of "knowing what time it is" according to the article is recognizing what the stakes are if conservatism doesn't win in 2024. Trump isn't the only one running that is aware of the political stakes. DeSantis has shown that he is as well and that's why he said he made the decision to step up and run now instead of "waiting his turn" until 2028.

It's also a criticism of the chamber-o-commerce/neocon class of conservative's definition of conservatism. And to a large degree I would agree. I'd also agree with the anacronistic consern. Neocons were successful in the late 90's early 2000's. It's dead now. **** that chamber-o-commerce loving passionate conservative spouting Pence-like fondness for open markets. Going along with ClownWorld™ is not gonna stop the future that's coming.

The US and its constitution are at stake. And to your point, backing Trump isn't the only way to demonstrate that you know what time it is. But for Mike, apparently me talking about the binary thinking of the ardant, fiercely loyal, adoring Trumpers means I don't understand what's at stake. Because I think he thinks the only one who can save us is Trump, and that silly debate tactics on a discussion board to deflect away from Trump's and Trumper's faults, are part of defeating ClownWorld™.

 

[BugI02]

This the only dodge you got? Whataboutism is a claim of hypocrisy. What I recall saying to you, and I don't know if this is what you're referring to or not, is that you state facts that are true, but pursuant to making them fit a narrative that allows you to make reality bend to your goal. And that goal is usually whataboutism.

For example, the snide "not his guy" nonsense that you like to drop occasionally. I criticized the idea of having a guy. And instead of challenging or defending against that point, you try to change reality and do this backhanded insinuation, without any evidence, that I have the same kind of cult-like loyalty to DeSantis that you have for Trump.

My body of posts, which has established over the 12 years I've been on INGO, that I've been very consistent on what I think about politicians. It is folly to put your faith, devotion, and blind trust into any person, and especially a person who wants power over you. So that stands in stark contrast with the story you've been trying to weave.

There is a point that DeSantis is nearing where I'd drop him like a used rubber. That thinking is an asset, not a liability. I'm not sure Trump could do anything that would cause you not to follow him off a cliff if that's where he's heading. So maybe try to be a bit more honest and defend that rather than tealing up some bull**** what-about nonsense.

You are always overselling your own objectivity while simultaneously needing to demonize the beliefs of others as somehow lacking the high standards you assign to your own beliefs. I don't buy it. If it were true, you wouldn't need to sell it so hard

You don't consider anything more carefully than anyone else, merely differently, according to the preferences you already hold.

I can't really explain the need to conceal the fact that you have preferences already entrenched, other than perhaps the need to make your opinions seem of special significance

I do note that every time you are challenged to cite proof for controversial claims or opinions, you either won't or can't and attack the idea that whatever belief you profess could be in any way controversial

 

[jamil]

Unfortunately, there is a strong tendency by a subset of INGO to ignore that factor and stick to the calculus that DeSantis can win over a few 'independents' and 'neverTrump Republicans' and somehow that will result in him winning the general where Trump could not

Make no mistake. I undertand that the most ardent Trumpers will begrudge a Trump loss in the primaries, and will blow **** up out of spite. I think the polls tacitly factor in the independent vot. We both agree that DeSantis and Trump are in a virtual margin-of-error tie head to head against Biden at this point in time. A lot can happen in a year and change.

That formulation erroneously presupposes that there will be no losses of Trump republican votes that will need to be made up for, which is wishful thinking. Seems to me the expectation that managing, by hook or by crook, to force the nomination of an unexciting candidate will inevitably result in loss of enthusiasm for the election - See: McCain and Romney candidacies - and thus the important consideration is whether nominating anyone else but Trump results in a net loss of Republican votes. To speak of electability while ignoring that elephant in the room seems the height of hubris

Again, you are making this overly complicated to salvage a flawed idea. I've already told you that I do understand that if Trump doesn't win the nomination, a fair chunk of the electorate will either follow Trump if he runs third party, which will indeed blow **** up, and signal the end of US-first politics. There aren't enough independents to cover that. In fact, I've told you this the last time you tried attaching these teal words to me.

But, if Trump does not run third party, some die-hards will write Trump in. Some will pout at home and not vote out of spite.

As I have been at pains to point out, I have not seen a way to quantify the outcomes of the possibilities that is anything other than opinion dressed up as careful consideration, and to take for granted that the large plurality that wants Trump is fickle, feckless and can be coerced to support a lesser choice en masse is delusional and will end in tears

When did I say anything about careful considerations. Those have always been your words. Not mine. When did I present my thoughts on the election as anything but opinion or speculation? At this point, your thoughts aren't any more than that either. We haven't even gotten to Primary season yet. Let's actually play the game out before you get to claim how wrong I am. But if you get to claim I'm wrong, at least have the honesty to say that it was me that's actually wrong and not the artifact you formed out of teal sewage.

 

[SheepDog4Life]

If You Don't Know What Time It Is, Get Out Of Politics Now

Americans must understand that the ruling class seeks total power, is closing in on it, and will stop at nothing to achieve it.

thefederalist.com

Trump won't save us from that...

We need to win not only the White House, but also the House and Senate... Trump has ZERO record of coat-tails, in fact anti-coat-tails, in 2018, 2020, 2022 and several special elections.

IMO, a Trump nomination is the most likely path to lead us to midnight.

DeSantis isn't flashy, but he gets the job done and builds coalitions... he helps get others elected and doesn't make every...single... issue and utterances about his fragile ego as Trump does.

So, IMO, DeSantis is more likely to win the general should he get the nomination AND have coat-tails in Senate/House races.