Coronovirus IV

[ghuns]

FDA pauses emergency authorization for blood plasma as coronavirus treatment

It's almost like they WANT to feed the fires of conspiracy theorists.

 

[HoughMade]

FDA pauses emergency authorization for blood plasma as coronavirus treatment

It's almost like they WANT to feed the fires of conspiracy theorists.

‘Course you realize that this doesn’t prevent doctors from using it.

 

[ghuns]

‘Course you realize that this doesn’t prevent doctors from using it.

Yeah, but still.

 

[SheepDog4Life]

‘Course you realize that this doesn’t prevent doctors from using it.

Doesn't the emergency authorization make it an "approved use" for doctors to prescribe treatment?

That's my understanding which may be incorrect... with the key being doctors prescribing unapproved and unauthorized treatments, to patients who may develop or have severe symptoms, that may result in permanent impairment or death... yes, just the target lawyers love.

At least that's my read of the "so what" and how it would affect normal docs and their patients not in a clinical study. It leaves docs in a position that they may have to bet their whole livelihood and personal savings on the treatment.

Just ain't going to happen, IMO.

 

[SheepDog4Life]

It's the T-cells stupid!

Epoch Times: T Cell Immunity Underestimated in Predictions for COVID-19 Herd Immunity
https://www.theepochtimes.com/t-cel...tions-for-covid-19-herd-immunity_3465083.html

NIH Director's Blog: Immune T Cells May Offer Lasting Protection Against COVID-19
https://directorsblog.nih.gov/2020/...ay-offer-lasting-protection-against-covid-19/

Very good article and blog post about T-cell role in immune responses. And there is some initial evidence that prior coronavirus infections (like certain strains of the common cold or other CV infections) might offer some protections against this coronavirus.

This could explain why NYC, while it got hit pretty hard, was nowhere near what it "should have been" with such population density if there was no existing immunity whatsoever.

It also hints, my speculation here as it's not in the articles, that a vaccine using the common cold might be something to think about... think cowpox to immunize against smallpox. Keep your fingers crossed on this one folks...

Finally, Bertoletti’s team looked for such T cells in blood samples from 37 healthy individuals with no history of either COVID-19 or SARS. To their surprise, more than half had T cells that recognize one or more of the SARS-CoV-2 proteins under study here. It’s still not clear if this acquired immunity stems from previous infection with coronaviruses that cause the common cold or perhaps from exposure to other as-yet unknown coronaviruses.

 

[HoughMade]

Would more doctors use it if it was approved by the FDA, emergency or not? Probably.

Can doctors use treatments that are not approved or use a medication approved for one thing to treat a different ailment? Sure. Happens every day.

I'm neither here nor there on Fauci. I do not believe any conspiracy theories, but I have no doubt that he he is "playing it safe", maybe to an extent not appropriate for the current situation. In the normal course of events, these things take longer, have more testing, more studies and less use of the emergency authorizations. Docs who are used to the way things "normally" are, most especially academics and appointees as opposed to physicians treating in the community, sometimes get stuck in the rut of "the rules say this so we can't waiver"? Absolutely. As for Dr. Collins, I have been following him for years. When I started teaching medical ethics about 10 years ago, he was a prominent voice. I have no qualms about his ethics or honesty...however, he is an academic and an appointee, so the same "rut" mentality may apply.

Personally, I think the current situation calls for a "if it unlikely to hurt, let's give it a shot"....which the medical ivory tower types have a tendency to eschew. Maybe they are fine with community based physicians using the stuff, but they don't want to go very far outside the "normal" processes to actually approve it. I think it's time to put "normal" aside to an extent.

 

[larcat]

Again, ya'll need to check out the Robert Gallo OPV stuff.

He's arguably the biggest name in this field alive and can't get funding for a proper trial domestically for something that might give sufficiently long temporary immunity to nuke this bastard on a demographic scale.

It's not conspiracy persay, but it sure stinks.

 

[SheepDog4Life]

Would more doctors use it if it was approved by the FDA, emergency or not? Probably.

Can doctors use treatments that are not approved or use a medication approved for one thing to treat a different ailment? Sure. Happens every day.

I'm neither here nor there on Fauci. I do not believe any conspiracy theories, but I have no doubt that he he is "playing it safe", maybe to an extent not appropriate for the current situation. In the normal course of events, these things take longer, have more testing, more studies and less use of the emergency authorizations. Docs who are used to the way things "normally" are, most especially academics and appointees as opposed to physicians treating in the community, sometimes get stuck in the rut of "the rules say this so we can't waiver"? Absolutely. As for Dr. Collins, I have been following him for years. When I started teaching medical ethics about 10 years ago, he was a prominent voice. I have no qualms about his ethics or honesty...however, he is an academic and an appointee, so the same "rut" mentality may apply.

Personally, I think the current situation calls for a "if it unlikely to hurt, let's give it a shot"....which the medical ivory tower types have a tendency to eschew. Maybe they are fine with community based physicians using the stuff, but they don't want to go very far outside the "normal" processes to actually approve it. I think it's time to put "normal" aside to an extent.

I think with Faucci it's more than just "ivory tower" mentality... he's served in high ranking positions for decades and multiple administrations... you don't do that without being a shrewd political animal. This smacks of that to me.

And, the assumption I'm making is that without the emergency authorization "cover", for normal doctors practicing outside of the cover offered by studies, this would be an "experimental" treatment? Basically, the doc's behind would be flapping in the breeze...

 

[Alamo]

Ignorance About Covid-19 Risk Is ‘Nothing Short of Stunning,’ Research Report Says; Huge Age Variance – Wirepoints
[FONT=&quot]
No time right now to summarize or excerpt, go read the whole thing.[/FONT]

 

[drillsgt]

I think with Faucci it's more than just "ivory tower" mentality... he's served in high ranking positions for decades and multiple administrations... you don't do that without being a shrewd political animal. This smacks of that to me.

And, the assumption I'm making is that without the emergency authorization "cover", for normal doctors practicing outside of the cover offered by studies, this would be an "experimental" treatment? Basically, the doc's behind would be flapping in the breeze...

High ranking position may be a bit generous. He's the head of one of many divisions within the NIH. Within the sphere of DC he's probably akin to a mid-level manager.

 

[HoughMade]

 

[Alpo]

Fauci is waiting on the science. Seems to me that is the only responsible position to be in when what you say can affect the 7 billion people on this planet.

Ready, Shoot, Aim in this circumstance is costly in terms of lives and treasure.

 

[OakRiver]

Fauci is waiting on the science. Seems to me that is the only responsible position to be in when what you say can affect the 7 billion people on this planet.

Ready, Shoot, Aim in this circumstance is costly in terms of lives and treasure.

Dr. Fauci is responsible for the population of the United States. The 7 billion should have been served by the WHO. Instead they were too busy taking their orders from Beijing to prevent over 95% of the deaths worldwide.

 

[ljk]

[video=youtube_share;iY4qjfa2-vE]https://youtu.be/iY4qjfa2-vE[/video]

 

[Alpo]

Dr. Fauci is responsible for the population of the United States. The 7 billion should have been served by the WHO. Instead they were too busy taking their orders from Beijing to prevent over 95% of the deaths worldwide.

Bureaucratically, I agree. Morally....some folks see the implications of wrong answers on a broader scale. WHO is a different issue. I'm speaking of Fauci.

Your accusation is not something I can see as being correct. Perhaps you are, but plagues don't necessarily obey political conventions.

 

[jamil]

Fauci is waiting on the science. Seems to me that is the only responsible position to be in when what you say can affect the 7 billion people on this planet.

Ready, Shoot, Aim in this circumstance is costly in terms of lives and treasure.

If Fauci is waiting on the science, that’s a first during this pandemic. Kinda sucks having to continually say the opposite thing you just said a few weeks ago.

 

[OakRiver]

Your accusation is not something I can see as being correct. Perhaps you are, but plagues don't necessarily obey political conventions.

Could you elaborate a little on this please? I'm trying to understand how you came to this position.

 

[SheepDog4Life]

Fauci is waiting on the science. Seems to me that is the only responsible position to be in when what you say can affect the 7 billion people on this planet.

Ready, Shoot, Aim in this circumstance is costly in terms of lives and treasure.

Effect of Convalescent Plasma on Mortality among Hospitalized Patients with COVID-19: Initial Three-Month Experience
https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.08.12.20169359v1


Here is the antibody plasma study that came out and gave Fauci pause. It was large with 35,000 patients receiving convalescent plasma.The participants had severe COVID-19 with over 50% in the ICU and over 25% on ventilators. It found clear and convincing evidence that high antibody concentration plasma lowers death rates in severe COVID-19 patients. Those receiving low antibody concentration plasma suffered a 54% higher mortality rate than those receiving high concentration plasma (8.9% versus 13.7%).

So, no, IMO this smacks more like the mask lie Fauci made back in the early spring... just me speculating that the "good stuff", high antibody concentration plasma in this case, N95 masks earlier, are scarce relative to the demand. And, rather than just being honest about the situation, he invokes the "god of science" and flat-out lies.

That's what my Fauci-BS detector is telling me and the needle is pretty much pegged at this point.

ETA: Edit on math... 54% not 50%

 

[Alpo]

If Fauci is waiting on the science, that’s a first during this pandemic. Kinda sucks having to continually say the opposite thing you just said a few weeks ago.

Yes, he has countered his previous declarations. You must be new to the 24/7 news cycle.

Would you prefer he sticks to initial positions and discard new data? Hmmmm? Asking for someone who hates Star Wars.

 

[Alpo]

Could you elaborate a little on this please? I'm trying to understand how you came to this position.

Sure. You said: "The 7 billion should have been served by the WHO. Instead they were too busy taking their orders from Beijing to prevent over 95% of the deaths worldwide."

That may have been a purple comment without the coloration. If so, then it didn't really need my reply. If you're serious, then I stand by what I said. Said another way, I don't see where immediate and correct action by any organization could have limited deaths to 5% of actual.