Colin Kaepernick protests the Anthem

[KLB]

Yeah, Green shouldn't have said that, be he's not the sharpest guy in the world. One thing people need to remember about these athletes, is that (to us) they're kids. They still don't have a lot of life experience.

Many will never get any. With the amount of money they get they don't have to live in the real world. At least not unless they blow all of their money.

 

[churchmouse]

Yeah, Green shouldn't have said that, be he's not the sharpest guy in the world. One thing people need to remember about these athletes, is that (to us) they're kids. They still don't have a lot of life experience.

I can agree but they say this crap and it goes viral in a heart beat muddying the entire thing. Being stupid does not advance a well defined agenda which I have as yet failed to see.

These statements only further anger those of us that are supporting the game they are being so well paid to play. It is their job.

 

[GREEN607]

Still no violence right? Just people saying "you can protest, just protest the way we want you to protest."

Actually, I believe Expat was referring to the violence involving 2 players from the Bengals and Jaguars.... who duked it out and body-slammed each other "during" the game.
Not related to the protest.....

 

[Birds Away]

Still no violence right? Just people saying "you can protest, just protest the way we want you to protest."

That's one way to look at it. Another would be to ask yourself a question. How effective will my protest be if it offends half of the viewers to the point that they turn their backs and refuse to listen to anything else I have to say? How much more effective would my protest be if, after getting everyone's attention, I changed to less offensive means of getting my message across. This is very important. They want people to listen to what they have to say but are being completely tone deaf to all who say they are offended at the nature of the protest. You can't have it both ways. If you want them to listen to you don't you think it might be helpful not to ignore them?

 

[Dr.Midnight]

That's one way to look at it. Another would be to ask yourself a question. How effective will my protest be if it offends half of the viewers to the point that they turn their backs and refuse to listen to anything else I have to say? How much more effective would my protest be if, after getting everyone's attention, I changed to less offensive means of getting my message across. This is very important. They want people to listen to what they have to say but are being completely tone deaf to all who say they are offended at the nature of the protest. You can't have it both ways. If you want them to listen to you don't you think it might be helpful not to ignore them?

 

[Kutnupe14]

That's one way to look at it. Another would be to ask yourself a question. How effective will my protest be if it offends half of the viewers to the point that they turn their backs and refuse to listen to anything else I have to say? How much more effective would my protest be if, after getting everyone's attention, I changed to less offensive means of getting my message across. This is very important. They want people to listen to what they have to say but are being completely tone deaf to all who say they are offended at the nature of the protest. You can't have it both ways. If you want them to listen to you don't you think it might be helpful not to ignore them?

Worked for MLK Jr... whose protests were less popular during his time, as these protests are now. I posted the polls in a previous thread.

 

[Expat]

Actually, I believe Expat was referring to the violence involving 2 players from the Bengals and Jaguars.... who duked it out and body-slammed each other "during" the game.
Not related to the protest.....

Yeah, I just assume everyone watched the same shows I watched every morning :-)
NFL - A.J. Green, Mike Evans facing suspensions for Week 9 actions? - NFL Nation- ESPN

Really thuggish behavior on display.

 

[Birds Away]

Worked for MLK Jr... whose protests were less popular during his time, as these protests are now. I posted the polls in a previous thread.

Dr. King did not disrespect the anthem or the flag. I was pretty young then but, as I recall and have since read, when he talked about America it was aspirational towards a more inclusive rather than exclusive society. We, as Americans, would do well to revisit some of his speeches today. I think it would be instructive for both sides.
The reason I ask is that the only discussion we ever hear is about the protests themselves and nothing about the actual reason for the protests. What progress has been made in making this a national discussion?

 

[Dr.Midnight]

Worked for MLK Jr... whose protests were less popular during his time, as these protests are now. I posted the polls in a previous thread.

Dr. King had the moral high ground back in the 60's. From what I remember, Dr. King never disrespected our Nation's Flag or anthem. The only thing offensive he did was attack the beliefs of some backwards individuals.

 

[churchmouse]

Dr. King had the moral high ground back in the 60's. From what I remember, Dr. King never disrespected our Nation's Flag or anthem. The only thing offensive he did was attack the beliefs of some backwards individuals.

And for this I believe as Birds Away does that revisiting his speeches and beliefs might render some of the racial pushers inconsequential and we could move forward again.
Forward will be the way we need to go. Right now the waters are muddied up and confusion is the rule. Unless that is the plan.

 

[Kutnupe14]

Dr. King did not disrespect the anthem or the flag. I was pretty young then but, as I recall and have since read, when he talked about America it was aspirational towards a more inclusive rather than exclusive society. We, as Americans, would do well to revisit some of his speeches today. I think it would be instructive for both sides.
The reason I ask is that the only discussion we ever hear is about the protests themselves and nothing about the actual reason for the protests. What progress has been made in making this a national discussion?

Dr. King had the moral high ground back in the 60's. From what I remember, Dr. King never disrespected our Nation's Flag or anthem. The only thing offensive he did was attack the beliefs of some backwards individuals.

You're using contemporary sensibilities and applying them to the Civil Rights Era. It doesn't work that way. People then believed, just as fervently, as people now in their disagreement; moreso, in fact, because Dr. King was literally, with his protests, changing the nation.
And no, let's not whitewash history. King was not attacking the beliefs of "some" backwards individuals, he was attacking the beliefs enshrined-IN-LAW of most of the nation.

 

[Birds Away]

You're using contemporary sensibilities and applying them to the Civil Rights Era. It doesn't work that way. People then believed, just as fervently, as people now in their disagreement; moreso, in fact, because Dr. King was literally, with his protests, changing the nation.
And no, let's not whitewash history. King was not attacking the beliefs of "some" backwards individuals, he was attacking the beliefs enshrined-IN-LAW of most of the nation.

And God Bless him for his courage to do so. I think he truly believed in America and knew that people, when confronted with the truth of the situation, would come to doing what was right. Which they ultimately did. It wasn't fast nor easy but it was a battle worth fighting. But, again, I always got the impression that he believed in America. He believed in America being better than it was. He knew better than to make it a battle against American institutions like the flag or the anthem. He knew better than to alienate people who might well have become allies. If someone has a legitimate complaint and wants to bring it to the public's attention what possible good can it do to start of by turning a large percentage of those people against you before you even have a chance to discuss what the issue is? It makes no sense.

 

[Birds Away]

I'm sorry but this is really frustrating to me. There is a legitimate issue. It needs to be thoroughly and honestly discussed at a national level. But it is being completely overshadowed by all the BS surrounding these protests. Now, once again, it is just about picking sides and flinging nasty rhetoric at each other. There has got to be a better way.

 

[Kutnupe14]

I'm sorry but this is really frustrating to me. There is a legitimate issue. It needs to be thoroughly and honestly discussed at a national level. But it is being completely overshadowed by all the BS surrounding these protests. Now, once again, it is just about picking sides and flinging nasty rhetoric at each other. There has got to be a better way.

I've learned a lot from these protests. The thing now, that I'm struggling with, is the national anthem. I am now firmly in the "change it" camp. I won't kneel nor sit, but I don't really want to think about it. I view it as disrespectful to my ancestors, so I actively avoid having to hear it, so I don't have to follow the protocols associated. If the NFL players actually said they were protesting the anthem (and they're not), I wouldn't have issue with it.

Originates from this:

And where is that band who so vauntingly swore,
That the havoc of war and the battle’s confusion
A home and a Country should leave us no more?
Their blood has wash’d out their foul footstep’s pollution.
No refuge could save the hireling and slave
From the terror of flight or the gloom of the grave,
And the star-spangled banner in triumph doth wave
O’er the land of the free and the home of the brave

 

[Birds Away]

I've learned a lot from these protests. The thing now, that I'm struggling with, is the national anthem. I am now firmly in the "change it" camp. I won't kneel nor sit, but I don't really want to think about it. I view it as disrespectful to my ancestors, so I actively avoid having to hear it, so I don't have to follow the protocols associated. If the NFL players actually said they were protesting the anthem (and they're not), I wouldn't have issue with it.

Originates from this:

Ignorance is bliss. I was unaware.
https://www.theroot.com/star-spangled-bigotry-the-hidden-racist-history-of-the-1790855893
I really had no idea. I agree, we must change it. But, to what? Just the thought of bringing up such a question in today's political climate gives me chills. I don't think there is anything that everyone on both sides could agree on. America the Beautiful? No, we couldn't do that because it mentions God and most of the folks on your side would have a cow. There probably isn't a song that would pass muster on all sides. Actually there isn't anything that could pass muster on all sides. I could say babies are beautiful but the pro abortion crowd, thinking I had some hidden agenda, would want to burn me at the stake.

 

[Dr.Midnight]

This is something else I've been wondering, and someone please let me know if I don't have the correct information, but since Kap's been out of football for over a year, why hasn't he been active towards his cause? We've discussed Dr. King in this thread. Why hasn't Kap taken a page from his playbook and started giving speeches or organizing marches? So far, it looks like all he has done is kneel during our National Anthem in a place where he was getting paid millions to be.

Along those lines, have any of the players protesting that are currently on a roster done anything more than lip service? I would like to know. How many have put in time lecturing at schools or the Boys Club? Have any volunteered with Habitat for Humanity?

If they're wanting to be taken seriously, it wouldn't be a bad thing to see them investing some of their own resources versus asking for everyone else to ante up instead.

 

[JettaKnight]

Ignorance is bliss. I was unaware.
https://www.theroot.com/star-spangled-bigotry-the-hidden-racist-history-of-the-1790855893
I really had no idea. I agree, we must change it. But, to what? Just the thought of bringing up such a question in today's political climate gives me chills. I don't think there is anything that everyone on both sides could agree on. America the Beautiful? No, we couldn't do that because it mentions God and most of the folks on your side would have a cow. There probably isn't a song that would pass muster on all sides. Actually there isn't anything that could pass muster on all sides. I could say babies are beautiful but the pro abortion crowd, thinking I had some hidden agenda, would want to burn me at the stake.

We could change it back to Hail Columbia...


If you haven't listened to Mike Rowe's podcast, then this is a good start.
https://secure-hwcdn.libsyn.com/p/7...10005283&hwt=7d7b0f6ec122ce48871676ff8f4809c6

It's short, and I think you all will like it and learn a thing or two.

 

[rob63]

Another viepoint: 'Star-Spangled Banner' critics miss the point - CNN

JMHO, but the line "No refuge could save the hireling and slave" is not a reference to race within the context of the poem. Key's poem is a patriotic ode to the men that fought for the flag that represents the nation and their cause. The line in question is contrasting their cause to those of the men they were fighting against, asking where are those men that swore they would leave us with no home or country? "Hireling" refers to the mercenaries that are fighting for money. "Slaves" refers to men promised their personal freedom in exchange for fighting. It builds on the resentment left over from the Revolution where the King sent foreign mercenaries to fight against them. The King sending mercenaries and slaves to do his fighting was viewed as a reflection of the value of his cause.

 

[JettaKnight]

I've learned a lot from these protests. The thing now, that I'm struggling with, is the national anthem. I am now firmly in the "change it" camp. I won't kneel nor sit, but I don't really want to think about it. I view it as disrespectful to my ancestors, so I actively avoid having to hear it, so I don't have to follow the protocols associated. If the NFL players actually said they were protesting the anthem (and they're not), I wouldn't have issue with it.

Whatever your reason, we welcome you into "The Star Spangled Banner is a Bad National Anthem" camp!

I'll start print T-shirts.


EDIT:
I'd also propose eliminating having Songy McMangler sing it a capella at events. Nope. Just play the music and let everyone mangle that incredibly difficult song in on their own.

 

[jamil]

Worked for MLK Jr... whose protests were less popular during his time, as these protests are now. I posted the polls in a previous thread.

Kut, we've been through this before when you tried this false equivalence. MLK didn't make untrue claims. This is a much different climate now than then. America doesn't oppress black people. A few individials may. This isn't changing anyone's mind.

No one is talking about the thing being protested. Actually it's pretty much fizzling. I watched some pro football for the first time in several weeks. Not a peep. No one's talking about it. It's pretty much dead. In fact, if Kaep's ***** wants to stay relevant she'll need to dream up some other controversial scheme to con him into doing. Or maybe dump him and find some other famous person to con.

If the "national conversation" is/was about anything, it's about whether it is or isn't disrespectful to kneel during the national anthem.