Carjacking in Indiana, Use of deadly force...

[Militarypol21]

Question:
At what time would deadly force be used during a car jacking? Or to better ask this question.. At what moment would you pull your weapon out of the holster and place a well placed round between the eyes of a person attempting to carjack you?

Scenario 1:
I am parked in the Wal-mart parking lot with my windows down and keys in the ignition. A man approaches my car and says, “Get out of the car; I am taking it.” I tell the man, “No you’re not” and roll my window up. The man then opens the car door and reaches in to pull me out. The man pulls me out of the car and I fall to the ground. The man then drives away in my car. I could not see a weapon on the man.

Scenario 2:
Same question as Scenario 1, except the man has a weapon visible.

Scenario 3:
Same question as Scenario 1, except I do not see a weapon but the man states he will kill me if I don’t get out of my car.

Scenario 4:
Same question as Scenario 1, except I do see a weapon and the man states he will kill me if I don’t get out of my car.


According to Indiana Code 35-41-3-2:
(a) A person

(1) is justified in using deadly force; and
(2) does not have a duty to retreat;

if the person reasonably believes that that force is necessary to prevent serious bodily injury to the person or a third person or the commission of a forcible felony. No person in this state shall be placed in legal jeopardy of any kind whatsoever for protecting the person or a third person by reasonable means necessary.

(b) A person:

(1) is justified in using reasonable force, including deadly force, against another person; and
(2) does not have a duty to retreat;

if the person reasonably believes that the force is necessary to prevent or terminate the other person's unlawful entry of or attack on the person's dwelling, curtilage, or occupied motor vehicle.


IC 35-42-5-2
Carjacking
Sec. 2. A person who knowingly or intentionally takes a motor vehicle from another person or from the presence of another person:

(1) by using or threatening the use of force on any person; or
(2) by putting any person in fear;

commits carjacking, a Class B felony.

 

[hrdwarhax]

it seems to me that under all of thoes circumstances that u would be justified in killing the "suspect"

 

[sonofagun]

In response to all four scenarios, I believe if you pull your weapon instead of talking and rolling up the window, you would be justified by Indiana Code.

 

[GBuck]

IMO you could in any of the scenarios because of

(b) A person:

(1) is justified in using reasonable force, including deadly force, against another person; and
(2) does not have a duty to retreat;

if the person reasonably believes that the force is necessary to prevent or terminate the other person's unlawful entry of or attack on the person's dwelling, curtilage, or occupied motor vehicle.

Even if you cannot see a weapon, that does not mean he does not have one.

The better question is, "Once he is driving off in my vehicle can I shoot at him(the vehicle)? My answer would be, if he used force, that you could BECAUSE, he is in the act of commiting a felony, he has used force against you, and you feel that he is a reasonable threat to do physical damage to someone else. But as always, IANAL.

 

[eldirector]

At first blush, it appears that you would be justified in all 4 cases, from the moment the attacker attempts to enter the vehicle (unlawful entry) or presents a weapon (serious violent felony AND serious bodily injury).

 

[the1kidd03]

Scenario 1: you would have been justified when he opened your car door...after that he posed no threat to you and would not have been justified

Scenario 2: you would have been justified up until he was in the car, you were out, and he was "on his way" away from you

Scenario 3: same as above

Scenario 4: you would have been justified as soon as those words left his mouth

these are the points at which you would be able to easily justify it in a court room....I know the law reads in the commission of a felony, but in this society I doubt you will be able to justify (in their minds) using deadly force when the man does not pose a threat to your life.............but as the law reads you would be justified pretty much at any time during these scenarios

 

[SideArmed]

Question:
At what time would deadly force be used during a car jacking? Or to better ask this question.. At what moment would you pull your weapon out of the holster and place a well placed round between the eyes of a person attempting to carjack you?......

You don't even have to get into all the scenarios, the answer is simple. The moment you feel that you are in fear for your life or serious bodily harm, and you feel you have no other option. Bang.

 

[ralphb72]

The threat is implied even with #1, "I'm taking your car (BY FORCE)". As someone else said, you have no way of knowing if they have a weapon or not, and you won't have time to find out until it is too late.

BUT: My car door is locked so he wouldn't be able to gain access as easy as that:

#1 Kids in the back seat, sorry buddy your screwed, should have picked a different car.

#2 No kids in the back seat but weapons in the car other then the one on my person, same as above.

#3 No kids and no weapons in car, nothing in car that is not replaceable, I honestly don't know. ALTHOUGH: If he takes my car, he could still have access to my detached garage. He would know where my house is, and probably have my house key, so he would still be a threat.

 

[Bunnykid68]

Bang, what was the question again?

 

[cobber]

You are going to have to convince a jury that your belief of attack/entry/bodily injury was reasonable. Then you'll have to convince them that the means employed to protect yourself were reasonable.

Ugh. But life doesn't always give us clear choices.

 

[SSGSAD]

Question:
At what time would deadly force be used during a car jacking? Or to better ask this question.. At what moment would you pull your weapon out of the holster and place a well placed round between the eyes of a person attempting to carjack you?

Scenario 1:
I am parked in the Wal-mart parking lot with my windows down and keys in the ignition. A man approaches my car and says, “Get out of the car; I am taking it.” I tell the man, “No you’re not” and roll my window up. The man then opens the car door and reaches in to pull me out. The man pulls me out of the car and I fall to the ground. The man then drives away in my car. I could not see a weapon on the man.

Scenario 2:
Same question as Scenario 1, except the man has a weapon visible.

Scenario 3:
Same question as Scenario 1, except I do not see a weapon but the man states he will kill me if I don’t get out of my car.

Scenario 4:
Same question as Scenario 1, except I do see a weapon and the man states he will kill me if I don’t get out of my car.


According to Indiana Code 35-41-3-2:
(a) A person

(1) is justified in using deadly force; and
(2) does not have a duty to retreat;

if the person reasonably believes that that force is necessary to prevent serious bodily injury to the person or a third person or the commission of a forcible felony. No person in this state shall be placed in legal jeopardy of any kind whatsoever for protecting the person or a third person by reasonable means necessary.

(b) A person:

(1) is justified in using reasonable force, including deadly force, against another person; and
(2) does not have a duty to retreat;

if the person reasonably believes that the force is necessary to prevent or terminate the other person's unlawful entry of or attack on the person's dwelling, curtilage, or occupied motor vehicle.


IC 35-42-5-2
Carjacking
Sec. 2. A person who knowingly or intentionally takes a motor vehicle from another person or from the presence of another person:

(1) by using or threatening the use of force on any person; or
(2) by putting any person in fear;

commits carjacking, a Class B felony.

FIRST, my doors, are ALWAYS LOCKED !!!!!
Second, when YOU, TOUCH ME, you will be introduced to " my little friend".....
Third, if YOU don't get my message, by then well do I really have to explain ?????

 

[mrortega]

In all scenarios the attempting perp gets shot. You don't have time to judge someone's ability to hurt you even if you don't see a weapon. Just yesterday a mixed martial arts expert who beat the hell out of a guy the other day had his charges uped to involuntary manslaughter after the victim died. Nobody can know what just one hard, well placed punch can do to you. He pulls the door open he gets it in the chest with a .40 caliber 180 gr. GDHP from my itty bitty Glock 27.

 

[iChokePeople]

IMO you could in any of the scenarios because of
Even if you cannot see a weapon, that does not mean he does not have one.

The better question is, "Once he is driving off in my vehicle can I shoot at him(the vehicle)? My answer would be, if he used force, that you could BECAUSE, he is in the act of commiting a felony, he has used force against you, and you feel that he is a reasonable threat to do physical damage to someone else. But as always, IANAL.

IANAL, but I think if you shoot at him as he's driving away (assuming no other weird circumstances...), you're going to have some long days trying to explain that to a jury. I personally would NOT fire those shots.

 

[gohard43]

Man strikes worker with gun, takes car

Interesting how i just stumbled on to this story after reading this thread! It's a shame this women was not carrying....

 

[japartridge]

For actually shooting, I would say 1,2,&4.

as for drawing my weapon, all of them.

scenario 3 is iffy to me whether or not to pull the trigger. Of course in all honesty I would see me reacting in 1 of 2 ways, getting out and letting him have the vehicle (provided I was by myself and no family in or around the vehicle) my car can be replaced, that's why I have insurance! The other response I could see myself doing, as I'm amped up on adrenaline, is just pulling and double-tapping him without thinking.

 

[BBSparkle]

The only thing that I would be worried about is my hearing after firing a gun a foot away from my face or closer inside of a damn car.

Alas, wearing my ear protection all the time would get some weird looks...

 

[IndianaSigma]

All four instances I would draw as soon as he tells me he is taking my car. If he made a move toward me....BANG. If he retreated....I'd call the PD and try to keep an eye on where he is until they arrive. If he had a weapon, he would get one as soon as I saw it.

As for the shooting after he has already left......I wouldn't take the chance. It would be extremely hard to convince a jury that you were protecting yourself at that point. I would try to shoot the tires out if it were possible, though.

 

[iChokePeople]

snippage

... I would try to shoot the tires out if it were possible, though.

Not me, again, assuming simple "just me, no other complications" circumstances. Once he's taken my car and driving away and I feel no threat to my life or the lives of others, there's probably no way I'm letting rounds fly that could end up even hitting HIM, let alone some innocent bystander. At that point, it's just a phone call to the police.

 

[IndianaSigma]

Not me, again, assuming simple "just me, no other complications" circumstances. Once he's taken my car and driving away and I feel no threat to my life or the lives of others, there's probably no way I'm letting rounds fly that could end up even hitting HIM, let alone some innocent bystander. At that point, it's just a phone call to the police.

That's a good point. I'd say it depends on where you are at. The Walmart I go to is populated. I would just call PD. If I were at some of the Walmarts I have been to that aren't populated and there's a field in the background, I would. Also depends on how far away I was. If there was a chance of a round hitting the driver, I would chalk it up as an insurance claim.

 

[CSORuger]

The only thing that I would be worried about is my hearing after firing a gun a foot away from my face or closer inside of a damn car.

Alas, wearing my ear protection all the time would get some weird looks...