Carjacking in Indiana, Use of deadly force...

[Militarypol21]

Man strikes worker with gun, takes car

Interesting how i just stumbled on to this story after reading this thread! It's a shame this women was not carrying....

This, is exaclty why I was asking the question. In all scenarios I would draw my gun but actually pulling the trigger would depend on the situation at hand. IC might state it is justified to use deadly force if I believe the force is necessary to prevent another person's unlaw entry of my occupied vehicle but explaining that to an antigun jury is another story.

 

[mmills50]

The one and only time I've ever drawn my weapon on some one was an attepted car jacking. Driving down a side street in a city I used to live a teenager (16 ish) walked out in front of my car forcing me to stop while his buddy tried to open my passenger door (locked of course) after a second of him yanking on the door I drew up on the guy at my side and waited... If he broke that glass (i couldn't see his hands) luckly he saw my firearm and they both took off running.

 

[SideArmed]

The one and only time I've ever drawn my weapon on some one was an attepted car jacking. Driving down a side street in a city I used to live a teenager (16 ish) walked out in front of my car forcing me to stop while his buddy tried to open my passenger door (locked of course) after a second of him yanking on the door I drew up on the guy at my side and waited... If he broke that glass (i couldn't see his hands) luckly he saw my firearm and they both took off running.

I would venture a guess, and say that the majority of the time that is how the scenario is going to play out. Once the weapon is drawn and the criminal no longer feels they are in control of the situation, and realize they are not dealing with a victim, they are going to turn tail and run.

 

[lovemachine]

Now, aren't you within the law as long as you're in the vehicle, correct?

If you caught someone breaking in and stealing your car, shooting him is a big no-no, right?

 

[jbombelli]

You are going to have to convince a jury that your belief of attack/entry/bodily injury was reasonable. Then you'll have to convince them that the means employed to protect yourself were reasonable.

Ugh. But life doesn't always give us clear choices.

IANAL, but I think before that happens you would have had to fail to convince the police you were justified, then the prosecutor, resulting in charges, then fail to convince the judge to dismiss.

From what I've seen, it seems most likely the police, at least in Indiana, would most likely agree with your shooting the carjacker.

But again IANAL.

 

[Denny347]

You would be justified in all 4 cases. Just make sure of your target and your background. No worries about your ears. If you are in that situation, your adrenaline will be pegged and will result in auditory exclusion=the gun shots won't bother you. The body is so interesting isn't it?

 

[LionWeight]

Depends on which he walks up on me on. The car or the truck. If he walks up on the car...he can have it. I'll even give him 10 minutes head start. He walks up on my truck he gets paid for his troubles in lead. Except if he is driving away. If he's getting away, he's getting away. Too many variables to know your gettin off without too much hassle if he was getting away.

 

[Smokepole]

All four instances I would draw as soon as he tells me he is taking my car. If he made a move toward me....BANG. If he retreated....I'd call the PD and try to keep an eye on where he is until they arrive. If he had a weapon, he would get one as soon as I saw it.

As for the shooting after he has already left......I wouldn't take the chance. It would be extremely hard to convince a jury that you were protecting yourself at that point. I would try to shoot the tires out if it were possible, though.

I agree. But with my luck, I shoot the tires out and I get cited for discharging a firearm w/in city limits. Ooooor, miss tire, bullet ricochets, hits innocent bystander and I get charged with 2 or 3 felonies and a misdemeanor and don't see my family again for 10 rears or so.

 

[cobber]

IANAL, but I think before that happens you would have had to fail to convince the police you were justified, then the prosecutor, resulting in charges, then fail to convince the judge to dismiss.

From what I've seen, it seems most likely the police, at least in Indiana, would most likely agree with your shooting the carjacker.

But again IANAL.

Right, only if it goes to trial. Heaven help you if it does, but if Heaven's helping you it won't.

 

[Sylvain]

If you shoot the guy in all scenarios (or just draw your gun and make the guy run away which is always the best solution) then you not only saved your life but you also saved the life of many other people in my opinion.
As soon as this guy takes your car and drives away and you report the car as stolen, this guy becomes a threat to anyone on the road.
You can use deadly force to defend your life but also the life of others and that's what you would do too in that situation.
Not only to other civilians driving on the same road when he tries to escape from the police during a high speed pursuit, but also all the police officers who will be involved in that high speed pursuit (not to mention they could get shot if the guy is armed).

I would draw my gun in all scenarios and shoot if he doesnt run away.
Not only my life could be in danger but the life of others too, especially if I have kids in the car or guns that could later be used against to police.

 

[G_Stines]

Question:
At what time would deadly force be used during a car jacking? Or to better ask this question.. At what moment would you pull your weapon out of the holster and place a well placed round between the eyes of a person attempting to carjack you? Answers in red.

Scenario 1:
I am parked in the Wal-mart parking lot with my windows down and keys in the ignition. A man approaches my car Draw here. and says, “Get out of the car; I am taking it.” Present shooting position I tell the man, “No you’re not” [STRIKE]and roll my window up .[/STRIKE] The man then opens the car door and *BANG* Situation concluded. [STRIKE]reaches in to pull me out. The man pulls me out of the car and I fall to the ground. The man then drives away in my car. I could not see a weapon on the man.
[/STRIKE]
Scenario 2:
I am parked in the Wal-mart parking lot with my windows down and keys in the ignition. A man approaches my car Draw here, has a weapon visible Shooting Position and says, “Get out of the car; I am taking it.” *BANG* Situation Concluded. [STRIKE]I tell the man, “No you’re not” and roll my window up. The man then opens the car door and reaches in to pull me out. The man pulls me out of the car and I fall to the ground. The man then drives away in my car. I could not see a weapon on the man. except the man .[/STRIKE]

Scenario 3:
I am parked in the Wal-mart parking lot with my windows down and keys in the ignition. A man approaches my car Draw here. and says, “Get out of the car; I am taking it.” Present shooting position I tell the man, “No you’re not” [STRIKE]and roll my window up .[/STRIKE] The man then opens the car door (or pulls a weapon of his own) and *BANG* Situation concluded. [STRIKE]reaches in to pull me out. The man pulls me out of the car and I fall to the ground. The man then drives away in my car. I could not see a weapon on the man.
[/STRIKE]

Scenario 4:
I am parked in the Wal-mart parking lot with my windows down and keys in the ignition. A man approaches my car Draw here, has a weapon visible Shooting Position and says, “Get out of the car; I will kill you if you don't.” *BANG* Situation Concluded. [STRIKE]I tell the man, “No you’re not” and roll my window up. The man then opens the car door and reaches in to pull me out. The man pulls me out of the car and I fall to the ground. The man then drives away in my car. I could not see a weapon on the man. except the man .[/STRIKE]


According to Indiana Code 35-41-3-2:
(a) A person

(1) is justified in using deadly force; and
(2) does not have a duty to retreat;

if the person reasonably believes that that force is necessary to prevent serious bodily injury to the person or a third person or the commission of a forcible felony. No person in this state shall be placed in legal jeopardy of any kind whatsoever for protecting the person or a third person by reasonable means necessary.

(b) A person:

(1) is justified in using reasonable force, including deadly force, against another person; and
(2) does not have a duty to retreat;

if the person reasonably believes that the force is necessary to prevent or terminate the other person's unlawful entry of or attack on the person's dwelling, curtilage, or occupied motor vehicle.


IC 35-42-5-2
Carjacking
Sec. 2. A person who knowingly or intentionally takes a motor vehicle from another person or from the presence of another person:

(1) by using or threatening the use of force on any person; or
(2) by putting any person in fear;

commits carjacking, a Class B felony.

That's how I see it. Once there is an clear imminent threat, the line is crossed. Opening the car door, or having a weapon present that isn't mine crosses that line into the imminent threat to self. Also, I gave him the chance to stay alive at gunpoint til the cops got there. His fault not mine. He chose to die. I would have happily turn him over to the cops. Just my and the lawyers will probably call me trigger happy.

 

[Dwight]

BOOM, BOOM.....Stop attacking me!!....BOOM, BOOM!! (in that order)

 

[bassplayrguy]

You are going to have to convince a jury that your belief of attack/entry/bodily injury was reasonable. Then you'll have to convince them that the means employed to protect yourself were reasonable.

Ugh. But life doesn't always give us clear choices.

With all of the things that are going on today, convincing 12 people is getting easier everyday. If you are within the law, don't be a victim!

 

[kevman65]

Don't even have to look at the scenarios, I don't unlock my doors on either vehicle until I am in sight of it. I lock the doors as I am closing the door when I get in. Only way to "carjack" me is to bust the window or point a weapon, at either point I can say I was in fear of losing my life and defending myself.

As is preached around here, situational awareness, if someone is lurking near your vehicle, don't use your remote to let them know which vehicle is yours until you are right at the door. If said lurker starts to approach, be at the ready to evade and defend. If I get the "Excuse me Sir" or "Hey Buddy" I give them a stern and loud "NO THANK YOU" and proceed about my business. Too many sob stories are just that, a story to distract you.

Your vehicle is an extension of your home, it is your personal property and a temporary, moving residence, defend it and yourself.

I don't sit in public parking lots in a position where I can be approached without them being seen, you can ask Knife Lady as we have met a few times for purchases, I have a clear 360* view and where I park no one generally has a reason to be approaching me.

 

[kevman65]

On an aside, didn't they raise a carjacking to assault or aggravated assault felonious act? In either case the crime itself is justifiable to defense.