Black man shot in Kenosha, riots starting all over again...

[buckwacker]

The argument I've made repeatedly is this:

People have many sources of advantage and disadvantage. Some of us aren't born with good looks or musical talent. Some of us might have been born with those, but never got to develop them because we were born into disadvantage greater than those disadvantages. A singer that goes undiscovered is just a what could have been.

Inequality is the most natural of all states in society. There is no reason at all to believe that intellect, ability, or "privilege" would be evenly distributed, never mind "fairly" (since fair means something very different than even distribution these days).

The question is not whether Black Americans are unfairly disadvantaged in the US. Of course they are. But so are so many others for reasons completely beyond their control. A white kid born to a poor white trailer park single mom living with grandma on benefits is starting out with a lot of disadvantage.

So while I think there's a credible argument to make that white privilege isn't a thing, my argument is that *even if it is a thing* is not THE THING. White privilege won't take that poor kid from the trailer park and get him to law school at Harvard. Nope. If he's going to get there, he's going to have to get there the same way every other disadvantaged kid gets there. Hard work and good luck. Only in the case of Harvard, he will have a MORE difficult time gaining entry specifically because of his race. So being white is anti-privilege in that case.

"White privilege" doesn't cause your parents to stay married, avoid drugs, or stay out of gangs. Nope. And when you dive into the so-called racial disparities, you find that they are actually disparities of *behavior*. If you compare the outcomes of a black kid born to middle class parents who are married to each other and have stayed married, you find that any disparity in that kid's chances of college admission, future income, etc are statically indistinguishable from a white kid similarly situated.

The predictors of success: educational attainment, no single parenthood, avoiding incarceration-- all are MUCH larger factors than race. So much that race doesn't really matter other than it seems to be a predictor of behaviors that cause your life to suck.

It's beyond harmful to tell young black kids that the reason their life stinks is that the system is rigged-- that it isn't that Daddy is absent and Mommy is stuck in her job and spending extra money on scratch-offs and buying new cars and expensive phones she cannot afford, depending on a grandma for childcare and struggling to get by.


But after generations of mind-numbing nonsense being drilled into kids that they are all victims somewhere on the hierarchy of victimhood, nobody believes their actions matter. So why make good decisions? Why have delayed gratification? YOU CAN'T FIGHT THE SYSTEM, RIGHT?

Then when SURPRISE their life decisions deliver to them the consequences they inevitably do, people are totally unprepared for that and get indignant and angry. Why, I can't BELIEVE they fired me-- the one who's always late and skipping shifts without telling anyone-- instead of that other person who's always on time and cheerful. THE SYSTEM IS RIGGED!

Brietbart said it best-- politics is downstream of culture. It's about time we started recognizing that truth, because if you don't engage in the culture war that defends the Western values that created our prosperity and freedom, THEY WILL DISAPPEAR. You may not want to fight a culture war, but that's not up to you-- the culture has already declared war on you. Your options are fight it or cower and give it all away.

You worded it much better than I could have. Right on.

 

[Tombs]

Should the modern German state be held culpable for the crimes they committed against the Jews? How about Japanese internees during WW2. Should we, even those of us that weren’t alive then, pay for their treatment?

Germany has paid enough, it's even perverted the culture to such a degree their fetishes are based on humiliation.
Japan, on the other hand, has never apologized for their atrocious behavior during WW2. They probably should do that.
Aside from that, the debts are paid.

The US paid their debt for slavery with the most bloody war in the nation's history. Over half a million Americans spilled their blood.

Anyone still complaining about slavery is just looking for an excuse to get free stuff out of guilt ridden white liberals.

 

[Alpo]

Woke means you’re socially aware and sensitive to social justice concerns. Is hat what you’re saying I am?

Of course he reacted in rage. Possibly because he believes some things are more true than they really are. Or maybe because he’s a thug who sexually assaulted a minor in the home and he doesn’t really give a **** about much. Or maybe he has contempt for the police because he thinks they keep arresting him unfairly. I mean. Why can’t he get him some young? Right? Maybe he’s just a bad guy who keeps having run-ins with police, and that really ****ing inconvenient. Just spitballin’ like you.

We started this dialogue based on a question from Tombs:

What prevented Blake from stopping and complying with police?

And the conversation subsequently broadened to encompass a wide variety of subjects. Some of the answers are quite good, but they don't speak to Tomb's question:

"What prevented Blake from stopping and complying with police?"

The correct answer, methinks is: Nothing....and everything.

It is true that the system is set up to pick winners and losers. And that it has always been difficult for anyone to rise through the system without perseverance, dedication, social skills and some luck. Having a family that reinforces those ideas from birth with persistent instruction provides a foundation. Sadly, as family structures have broken down, so have those lessons.

I don't have answers to the problems and, at my age, I feel that my ability to effect desirable change is limited to my engagement with others in a fair and agreeable manner (INGO debates notwithstanding ). I think I have been successful in that.

 

[jamil]

May I ask why? I’m hoping you’ll surprise me, but no one has ever gotten the answer “right?”

It's not anything you haven't asked before, and that I haven't answered. I don't think you liked my answer before and I'm not holding out that you'll like it any better now.

There are several reasons but most distill down to this: You can't assign group blame according to identity groups of immutable characteristics, and you can't assign victim-hood either. It's the same concept across generations.

 

[jamil]

No black kid has the experience with racism that their parents did. Despite what some many think, it IS getting better; maybe not to the speed some would like, but it is.

Nothing grows to full maturity immediately. It's why it's called progress. But I'm afraid all the cultural Marxist **** is going to set us back to the 1950s.

 

[SheepDog4Life]

May I ask why? I’m hoping you’ll surprise me, but no one has ever gotten the answer “right?”

Because it's the wrong question... instead of why would they not be responsible for the "sins of their fathers", or in my case "the sins of someone else's fathers who had the same skin color as my fathers"... but why would they?

Why would I have responsibility for something I did not do... could not control or change... and was not even born yet when it happened?

Was I born with an indenture simply because of my skin color?

 

[Tombs]

Remember the pedophile that Kyle Rittenhouse shot?

Joseph Rosenbaum?

4chan managed to get his sentencing records, and I'd post them but they depict things I don't think would be acceptable to put on this site.
Long story short, he raped multiple kids, ages 9 to 11.

I'll imbed an imgur gallery of the documents, so it'd be easy to remove and not something you have to view if you don't want to.
https://imgur.com/a/l48Pd9N

 

[SheepDog4Life]

Remember the pedophile that Kyle Rittenhouse shot?

Joseph Rosenbaum?

4chan managed to get his sentencing records, and I'd post them but they depict things I don't think would be acceptable to put on this site.
Long story short, he raped multiple kids, ages 9 to 11.

I'll imbed an imgur gallery of the documents, so it'd be easy to remove and not something you have to view if you don't want to.
https://imgur.com/a/l48Pd9N

Oh for the days when other prisoners "cancelled" such ****stain molesters.

 

[churchmouse]

Remember the pedophile that Kyle Rittenhouse shot?

Joseph Rosenbaum?

4chan managed to get his sentencing records, and I'd post them but they depict things I don't think would be acceptable to put on this site.
Long story short, he raped multiple kids, ages 9 to 11.

I'll imbed an imgur gallery of the documents, so it'd be easy to remove and not something you have to view if you don't want to.
https://imgur.com/a/l48Pd9N

All I can say is why in the name of any deity we may kneel to is this puss sack loose on the streets.

 

[Kutnupe14]

It's not anything you haven't asked before, and that I haven't answered. I don't think you liked my answer before and I'm not holding out that you'll like it any better now.

There are several reasons but most distill down to this: You can't assign group blame according to identity groups of immutable characteristics, and you can't assign victim-hood either. It's the same concept across generations.

Then it begs the question, is the individual (Albeit collectively)ever guilty for the crimes of the state?
And what did I tell you about “recalling” our past discussions. You always seem to get it wrong. I am firmly against reparations.... but my reasoning, at least to me, seem to be the most obvious and yet no one ever seems to see it.

 

[singlestacksig]

May I ask why? I’m hoping you’ll surprise me, but no one has ever gotten the answer “right?”

because we don't do corruption of blood.
it only leads to division.

 

[KG1]

I guess if we can try and assign reasons why Blake might have been justified in non compliance with the cops because of cultural experiences then we might as well try to assign reasons that justify why he might’ve committed sexual assault. None of it is justified.

 

[churchmouse]

I guess if we can try and assign reasons why Blake might have been justified in non compliance with the cops because of cultural experiences then we might as well try to assign reasons that justify why he might’ve committed sexual assault. None of it is justified.

If we allow standards and lines to change with culture then we have already lost. That is total

I give to craps what color or culture or fracking planet you are from if the man says stop........."STOP"
I have to. Period. No excuses. The man was an idiot. No matter the reasoning.

 

[jamil]

Then it begs the question, is the individual (Albeit collectively)ever guilty for the crimes of the state?
And what did I tell you about “recalling” our past discussions. You always seem to get it wrong. I am firmly against reparations.... but my reasoning, at least to me, seem to be the most obvious and yet no one ever seems to see it.

When did I say you were in favor of reparations? We have discussed this before. And I do remember you saying you did not support reparations. I’m not saying you do. You just don’t seem to accept my reasoning.

But don’t be surprised that other people here haven’t picked your reason. Several people have opined on this, it does come up often. And people’s reasons vary, but here they tend to invoke a morality of fairness, that they should not be held accountable for something that someone else did. If there is a dominant trait of people who lean right, it’s a sense of fairness WRT responsibility. I think Haidt called it fairness/reciprocity. So maybe you’re just invoking a different night moral foundation for why you think reparations are wrong. But that’s okay.

Rather than scolding people for not thinking of the reason you think is most obvious, why not just tell us? We’re having a conversation. We’re sharing ideas. You share yours and maybe people will say, oh yeah. I haven’t thought of it that way and I agree with that too. Or some might say, eh, I don’t think I agree. Which is fine too.

 

[churchmouse]

Because it's the wrong question... instead of why would they not be responsible for the "sins of their fathers", or in my case "the sins of someone else's fathers who had the same skin color as my fathers"... but why would they?

Why would I have responsibility for something I did not do... could not control or change... and was not even born yet when it happened?

Was I born with an indenture simply because of my skin color?

As those who seek more free crap yes. You are indentured because you are white and therefore guilty of I know not what.

 

[qwerty]

Train up a child in the way he should go.....

https://heavy.com/news/2020/09/jacob-blake-sr-dad-father-facebook-biden/

 

[Alpo]

I don't have much hard data, and to the extent that academics have researched it, I don't think they have done more than interviews and cast a range of possible values, but I lived next door to a Japanese family (Nisei and Sansei) whose parents and grandparents were taken from the Central Valley of California in WWII and interned until 1945.

His father spoke of those who were helped by white families to save their homes and farms during internment. But he also said that many sold out in fire sales because they had no connections to retain their property. Some who didn't sell lost their homes and businesses to the state government in tax sales.

Reparations for internment were paid under the Reagan Administration, but the economic losses suffered by these families was rarely recovered. In addition, the opportunity losses of many of the farms that went fallow during the period also occurred.

As a country, we've always done a horrible job at compensating those who've attempted to do their best but stood in the way of government direction. I don't think that's something to be proud of and we ought to do our best to avoid such dislocations without compensation in the future.

 

[ghuns]

Remember the pedophile that Kyle Rittenhouse shot?

Joseph Rosenbaum?

4chan managed to get his sentencing records, and I'd post them but they depict things I don't think would be acceptable to put on this site.
Long story short, he raped multiple kids, ages 9 to 11.

I'll imbed an imgur gallery of the documents, so it'd be easy to remove and not something you have to view if you don't want to.
https://imgur.com/a/l48Pd9N

The glaringly bad choices of martyrs is the biggest thing keeping this movement from gaining traction across broader segments of our population.

It's hard to muster any f**ks to give when such an animal is put down.

 

[KG1]

I’m alittle late to the discussion and this point may have been raised before but can anyone direct me to any statistical evidence depicting the attempted mass genocide of the black race when they are compliant with law enforcement?

I mean the Nazi/Jew comparison really is absurd IMO.

 

[buckwacker]

I don't have much hard data, and to the extent that academics have researched it, I don't think they have done more than interviews and cast a range of possible values, but I lived next door to a Japanese family (Nisei and Sansei) whose parents and grandparents were taken from the Central Valley of California in WWII and interned until 1945.

His father spoke of those who were helped by white families to save their homes and farms during internment. But he also said that many sold out in fire sales because they had no connections to retain their property. Some who didn't sell lost their homes and businesses to the state government in tax sales.

Reparations for internment were paid under the Reagan Administration, but the economic losses suffered by these families was rarely recovered. In addition, the opportunity losses of many of the farms that went fallow during the period also occurred.

As a country, we've always done a horrible job at compensating those who've attempted to do their best but stood in the way of government direction. I don't think that's something to be proud of and we ought to do our best to avoid such dislocations without compensation in the future.

You do realize that most of the WWII generation was still alive when Reagan was president. If anyone from the civil war generation was still alive today, then maybe a discussion on reparations wouldn't be so laughable.