Black man shot in Kenosha, riots starting all over again...

[Clay Pigeon]

Damn skippy! And the "white guy" description that you edited out in favor of WASP was probably closer to the truth. I never was that good of a Protestant. But I also started out selling shoes at 16. Went to school (badly) at General Motors Institute 1978-79. Worked at Allison during that time and beyond for almost a year when I transferred to Purdue (and did badly). Worked in restaurants then went back to shoes (assistant manager of a Fayva!). More restaurants. More school.

"Real job" at BMG Music Club/Columbia House in IT for 14 years. They went out of business but gave us a year's notice plus a nice severance. After applying for almost all of that year for my cushy gubmint position, I finally got hired. Was only unemployed from October of '09 to January 2nd, '10. So. Nyah!

That could be an episode of The Bundys..... " Al mov'in on Up"

 

[buckwacker]

Contrary to popular belief, there are dumb questions.

But, to be fair now that you've edited your comment, there are historic, emotional, and physical reactions to the idea of restraint.

On one hand, the Jews more or less complied with authority in Hitler's germany. The Unkrainians didn't overthrow Stalin. Mao, Pol Pot, etc. All examples of where compliance results in death.

I think it isn't a far stretch to see that the black experience in America may only be a shade or two lighter than the above examples.

Perhaps you see the world from a rational view that you think would apply to you in all circumstances. Amigo, I can tell you that it can turn in a heartbeat. The world is not rational. You may think you are in control of your self and immediate locale, but that was one second ago. The next second might be entirely different.

I really hope that is hyperbole, because if you're serious, it would be very difficult to take anything you say seriously. It's nearly as illogical as the accusations those nutjobs leveled at the guy in the F250 just trying to pump a little fuel.

The black community have never had it better in America than they have it today, but to listen to these completely ignorant petulant protesters, one would think the whole country was the modern day equivalent of the Jim Crow South. Utter BS.

 

[Alpo]

They have never had it better....

...that is probably correct.

They've always had it worse is also correct.

Slavery ended 155 years ago. Dragging deaths in Texas or shooting black runners on a jog because of the color of their skin.....Tell me. When did that end?

 

[larcat]

I'd argue better at the height of union jobs in Detroit, Chicago and Gary but that's an economic issue, not a racial one.

Also, approximately 400 white people have been killed by cops per year and 200 black people (fudging here, you go calc the variance if you care, also depends [slightly] on who is counting) per year in the last 5 years. I hate doing hedonistic calculus body piles but it hasn't been mentioned in the chatter over the last few days.

The government killing you is the ultimate infringement of liberty. I'm against it in the general case. We do not, however, have an epidemic of police violence generally, nor against black people, despite the factor of 5 or factor of 2 disproportionality depending on what you care to control for.

We do have an epidemic of incarceration according to any metric you care to cite but that's an entirely different issue.

They have never had it better....

...that is probably correct.

They've always had it worse is also correct.

Slavery ended 155 years ago. Dragging deaths in Texas or shooting black runners on a jog because of the color of their skin.....Tell me. When did that end?

 

[Route 45]

Slavery ended 155 years ago. Dragging deaths in Texas or shooting black runners on a jog because of the color of their skin.....Tell me. When did that end?

The guilt for those crimes begins and ends with the racist ****tards that committed the crimes.

Blaming the entirety of the United States for the actions of an extremely small percentage of citizens is insane.

 

[jamil]

I'll repeat it until I get an answer because it seems to be something nobody wants to answer.

Usually questions that nobody wants to answer are ones that need answered the most, because it's revealing something about the situation that desperately needs discussed.


Every single human being on this planet knows that resisting police when a gun is pointed at you is a very bad idea. The motivations involved to continue to resist after that point, when it's obviously hopeless to do so, are absolutely the crux of the issue.

Suicide by cop?
Martyrdom?
Drugs?
Severe mental health issues?

None of the above. BLM. **** 12. That’s my wile ass guess at something I can’t parse from the known facts.

 

[jamil]

Contrary to popular belief, there are dumb questions.

But, to be fair now that you've edited your comment, there are historic, emotional, and physical reactions to the idea of restraint.

On one hand, the Jews more or less complied with authority in Hitler's germany. The Unkrainians didn't overthrow Stalin. Mao, Pol Pot, etc. All examples of where compliance results in death.

I think it isn't a far stretch to see that the black experience in America may only be a shade or two lighter than the above examples.

Perhaps you see the world from a rational view that you think would apply to you in all circumstances. Amigo, I can tell you that it can turn in a heartbeat. The world is not rational. You may think you are in control of your self and immediate locale, but that was one second ago. The next second might be entirely different.

Wait. So you’re saying that he didn’t comply because compliance contributes to their own demise? Well. As long as we’re making wild ass guesses, okay.

 

[Kutnupe14]

The guilt for those crimes begins and ends with the racist ****tards that committed the crimes.

Blaming the entirety of the United States for the actions of an extremely small percentage of citizens is insane.

Should the modern German state be held culpable for the crimes they committed against the Jews? How about Japanese internees during WW2. Should we, even those of us that weren’t alive then, pay for their treatment?

 

[Alpo]

Wait. So you’re saying that he didn’t comply because compliance contributes to their own demise? Well. As long as we’re making wild ass guesses, okay.

You're woke and don't understand rage?

Go figure.

 

[Kutnupe14]

X

 

[Hohn]

The argument I've made repeatedly is this:

People have many sources of advantage and disadvantage. Some of us aren't born with good looks or musical talent. Some of us might have been born with those, but never got to develop them because we were born into disadvantage greater than those advantages. A singer that goes undiscovered is just a what could have been.

Inequality is the most natural of all states in society. There is no reason at all to believe that intellect, ability, or "privilege" would be evenly distributed, never mind "fairly" (since fair means something very different than even distribution these days).

The question is not whether Black Americans are unfairly disadvantaged in the US. Of course they are. But so are so many others for reasons completely beyond their control. A white kid born to a poor white trailer park single mom living with grandma on benefits is starting out with a lot of disadvantage.

So while I think there's a credible argument to make that white privilege isn't a thing, my argument is that *even if it is a thing* is not THE THING. White privilege won't take that poor kid from the trailer park and get him to law school at Harvard. Nope. If he's going to get there, he's going to have to get there the same way every other disadvantaged kid gets there. Hard work and good luck. Only in the case of Harvard, he will have a MORE difficult time gaining entry specifically because of his race. So being white is anti-privilege in that case.

"White privilege" doesn't cause your parents to stay married, avoid drugs, or stay out of gangs. Nope. And when you dive into the so-called racial disparities, you find that they are actually disparities of *behavior*. If you compare the outcomes of a black kid born to middle class parents who are married to each other and have stayed married, you find that any disparity in that kid's chances of college admission, future income, etc are statically indistinguishable from a white kid similarly situated.

The predictors of success: educational attainment, no single parenthood, avoiding incarceration-- all are MUCH larger factors than race. So much that race doesn't really matter other than it seems to be a predictor of behaviors that cause your life to suck.

It's beyond harmful to tell young black kids that the reason their life stinks is that the system is rigged-- that it isn't that Daddy is absent and Mommy is stuck in her job and spending extra money on scratch-offs and buying new cars and expensive phones she cannot afford, depending on a grandma for childcare and struggling to get by.


But after generations of mind-numbing nonsense being drilled into kids that they are all victims somewhere on the hierarchy of victimhood, nobody believes their actions matter. So why make good decisions? Why have delayed gratification? YOU CAN'T FIGHT THE SYSTEM, RIGHT?

Then when SURPRISE their life decisions deliver to them the consequences they inevitably do, people are totally unprepared for that and get indignant and angry. Why, I can't BELIEVE they fired me-- the one who's always late and skipping shifts without telling anyone-- instead of that other person who's always on time and cheerful. THE SYSTEM IS RIGGED!

Brietbart said it best-- politics is downstream of culture. It's about time we started recognizing that truth, because if you don't engage in the culture war that defends the Western values that created our prosperity and freedom, THEY WILL DISAPPEAR. You may not want to fight a culture war, but that's not up to you-- the culture has already declared war on you. Your options are fight it or cower and give it all away.

 

[Hohn]

Should the modern German state be held culpable for the crimes they committed against the Jews? How about Japanese internees during WW2. Should we, even those of us that weren’t alive then, pay for their treatment?

No on all counts.

 

[jamil]

From the perspective of a black person and 400 years of interaction?

I don't think so. It might be that you lack an empathy gene.

I was watching Lovecraft Country the other night. It seemed to me that the program described racial relations pre-WWII, not 1950's USA. I don't remember much about the 1950's from that perspective. Even though I grew up in Detroit, I was only 11 as that decade ended. Neighborhoods back then were somewhat culturally exclusive.

But, watching the program, and knowing that it is a fictional drama, I could see that some amount of what was portrayed occurs even today. So, at what point do we tell someone: That isn't America today. Forget what your father told you. Or your uncle. Or your grandfather. That isn't what's happening.

And then you and your friends get profiled and pulled over. And black men make national news for back shoots.

Who needs to adjust their view, amigo?

A lot of progress has been made since the 1950s. Well. Let’s forget for a bit the regressive far left woke ****. That’s setting us back to the days of segregation. But progress has been made. Each new generation cared less about race than the previous. For a lot of black people in the middle and upper classes, equality is assumed. And their kids mostly don’t have the same experience with racism that their parents did.

But it doesn’t look to me like much progress has been made in the inner cities.

 

[buckwacker]

They have never had it better....

...that is probably correct.

They've always had it worse is also correct.

Slavery ended 155 years ago. Dragging deaths in Texas or shooting black runners on a jog because of the color of their skin.....Tell me. When did that end?

These things go back and forth because some people suck. It's complete fiction that black folk are the only group to experience racism. It's a lie that's been created by a certain segment of the political class in an effort to generate a captive voting block. (It's been quite effective by the way) You can't just throw out a couple examples of egregious behavior as justification for the position the the country is systemically racist against black folks. That they have it worse. I can do the same to "prove" you wrong. For example: https://www.google.com/amp/s/ktla.c...e-killed-4-white-men-gets-life-in-prison/amp/
And if I wanted to waste more time scrolling through the results of a google search, I could find a bunch more. What's odd is that I've never heard of these killings because it likely didn't make national news, and if it did, was likely a blip in a single 24 hour news cycle. Had the races been reversed, it would have been plastered all over the news for a week or two. Talk about your systemic racism.

Much of what is labeled racism today is simply the result of the unspoken recognition (can't say it out loud, that's racist) of the brokenness of the black community, which by the way is largely a byproduct of the policies of that same political class who harp incessantly about the victimization of those "poor helpless black folks" that would get steamrolled by racist white America if we weren't here to throw them just enough to keep them voting for more. The widespread lack of a good moral foundation in a large segment of urban black communities creates distrust in the rest of the country when it manifests itself as a propensity to violence as evidenced by the racial makeup of the prison population. I wish somehow we as a society could get through to these folks that largely the problem and also the solution lies with them. Though, I don't see that happening as long as a portion of the political class is willing to toy with these folks lives as a means to maintain power.

 

[jamil]

Should the modern German state be held culpable for the crimes they committed against the Jews? How about Japanese internees during WW2. Should we, even those of us that weren’t alive then, pay for their treatment?

No.

 

[Kutnupe14]

A lot of progress has been made since the 1950s. Well. Let’s forget for a bit the regressive far left woke ****. That’s setting us back to the days of segregation. But progress has been made. Each new generation cared less about race than the previous. For a lot of black people in the middle and upper classes, equality is assumed. And their kids mostly don’t have the same experience with racism that their parents did.

But it doesn’t look to me like much progress has been made in the inner cities.

No black kid has the experience with racism that their parents did. Despite what some many think, it IS getting better; maybe not to the speed some would like, but it is.

 

[Kutnupe14]

No.

May I ask why? I’m hoping you’ll surprise me, but no one has ever gotten the answer “right?”

 

[buckwacker]

May I ask why? I’m hoping you’ll surprise me, but no one has ever gotten the answer “right?”

I'm not responsible for my parent's/grandparent's actions.

It perpetuates animosity between the sides.

 

[jamil]

You're woke and don't understand rage?

Go figure.

Woke means you’re socially aware and sensitive to social justice concerns. Is hat what you’re saying I am?

Of course he reacted in rage. Possibly because he believes some things are more true than they really are. Or maybe because he’s a thug who sexually assaulted a minor in the home and he doesn’t really give a **** about much. Or maybe he has contempt for the police because he thinks they keep arresting him unfairly. I mean. Why can’t he get him some young? Right? Maybe he’s just a bad guy who keeps having run-ins with police, and that really ****ing inconvenient. Just spitballin’ like you.

 

[jamil]

The argument I've made repeatedly is this:

People have many sources of advantage and disadvantage. Some of us aren't born with good looks or musical talent. Some of us might have been born with those, but never got to develop them because we were born into disadvantage greater than those disadvantages. A singer that goes undiscovered is just a what could have been.

Inequality is the most natural of all states in society. There is no reason at all to believe that intellect, ability, or "privilege" would be evenly distributed, never mind "fairly" (since fair means something very different than even distribution these days).

The question is not whether Black Americans are unfairly disadvantaged in the US. Of course they are. But so are so many others for reasons completely beyond their control. A white kid born to a poor white trailer park single mom living with grandma on benefits is starting out with a lot of disadvantage.

So while I think there's a credible argument to make that white privilege isn't a thing, my argument is that *even if it is a thing* is not THE THING. White privilege won't take that poor kid from the trailer park and get him to law school at Harvard. Nope. If he's going to get there, he's going to have to get there the same way every other disadvantaged kid gets there. Hard work and good luck. Only in the case of Harvard, he will have a MORE difficult time gaining entry specifically because of his race. So being white is anti-privilege in that case.

"White privilege" doesn't cause your parents to stay married, avoid drugs, or stay out of gangs. Nope. And when you dive into the so-called racial disparities, you find that they are actually disparities of *behavior*. If you compare the outcomes of a black kid born to middle class parents who are married to each other and have stayed married, you find that any disparity in that kid's chances of college admission, future income, etc are statically indistinguishable from a white kid similarly situated.

The predictors of success: educational attainment, no single parenthood, avoiding incarceration-- all are MUCH larger factors than race. So much that race doesn't really matter other than it seems to be a predictor of behaviors that cause your life to suck.

It's beyond harmful to tell young black kids that the reason their life stinks is that the system is rigged-- that it isn't that Daddy is absent and Mommy is stuck in her job and spending extra money on scratch-offs and buying new cars and expensive phones she cannot afford, depending on a grandma for childcare and struggling to get by.


But after generations of mind-numbing nonsense being drilled into kids that they are all victims somewhere on the hierarchy of victimhood, nobody believes their actions matter. So why make good decisions? Why have delayed gratification? YOU CAN'T FIGHT THE SYSTEM, RIGHT?

Then when SURPRISE their life decisions deliver to them the consequences they inevitably do, people are totally unprepared for that and get indignant and angry. Why, I can't BELIEVE they fired me-- the one who's always late and skipping shifts without telling anyone-- instead of that other person who's always on time and cheerful. THE SYSTEM IS RIGGED!

Brietbart said it best-- politics is downstream of culture. It's about time we started recognizing that truth, because if you don't engage in the culture war that defends the Western values that created our prosperity and freedom, THEY WILL DISAPPEAR. You may not want to fight a culture war, but that's not up to you-- the culture has already declared war on you. Your options are fight it or cower and give it all away.

Pretty much all of this.