Black man shot in Kenosha, riots starting all over again...

[ghitch75]

https://racinecountyeye.com/police-k9-dozer-helps-subdue-man-who-pulled-gun-at-bar/

just as a said.....thug....

 

[Hatin Since 87]

But he could have shot the cop's eye out!

So I'll ask. What good reason does one have to ignore officer orders and continue to reach? What is so important in a way that will help the civilian (who is already repeatedly disregarding orders and failing to communicate appropriate intentions) that he needs to continue to ignore cops and keep on reaching?

Have these guys never seen what happens to people in their position? This isnt exactly something new.

I honestly don’t have a good reason why one would continue to disobey orders, but me and you were taught differently. I won’t argue on the side of the road with an officer, if he’s going to arrest me, even if I know 100% without a doubt I’m right, I’ll let him arrest me and fight it through court. Nobody wins in a fight with an officer, it will only lead to ruined lives for everyone involved.

But, for the sake of discussion, what was the cops reasoning for attempting to stop him anyways? As far as I’ve read, he didn’t break any laws, he was trying to break up a fight... so I see no reason for a detainment to begin with. Again, I’m not saying the officers are wrong, and there’s likely a lot of facts that haven’t been shared with the public, but with the facts we currently have I can’t understand why they were attempting to detain him and using force without force being presented.

I hope there’s facts that come out proving this was the correct actions. I don’t wanna see our LEO community take anymore heat than they are. We all know they don’t want to use deadly force. Tensions are high and media pushes a false narrative to further their agenda, but if we don’t hold them accountable when they do make a mistake we only give the media ammo to label us more.

Sorry, but I’m supposed to be avoiding this thread. The popcorn was presented, and that usually means it has the attention, lol.

 

[Hatin Since 87]

what if the guy said he was going for a weapon? I have heard that claim. the fact it wasn't there doesn't matter if he claimed it was

I agree. That’s what I was saying earlier, if a verbal threat was made and he went to the vehicle I agree with the shoot 100%, and honestly I’m wondering if that wasn’t the case. I’m betting something was said that made the officers want to keep him from the vehicle... I’m hoping the facts come out and show the officers were correct in doing so.

 

[ditcherman]

But he could have shot the cop's eye out!

So I'll ask. What good reason does one have to ignore officer orders and continue to reach? What is so important in a way that will help the civilian (who is already repeatedly disregarding orders and failing to communicate appropriate intentions) that he needs to continue to ignore cops and keep on reaching?

Have these guys never seen what happens to people in their position? This isnt exactly something new.

Because he decided he had nothing to lose? He most certainly knew there was a warrant for his arrest, and his only hope to get away was that the officer wouldn’t escalate the situation with kids in the van. Just another way to get off the hook, again.
If the cop was familiar with the perp or he knew his record, he had the right to assume the worst, that he was reaching for a gun in the van.

 

[Alpo]

So, there was a warrant for his arrest.

He stated he was going to get a gun.

I assume y'all have links?

 

[Gluemanz28]

Went to LA via Omaha?

[video=youtube;EJrRwTTqm0o]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EJrRwTTqm0o[/video]

 

[foszoe]

So far I see two sides both saying we need more info. But then presenting a bunch of hypotheticals meant to support one side or the other. Basically I am simply stuck at we need more info. But then we only be on page 2 or 3

 

[qwerty]

 

[Alpo]

OK. Thanks. One solid fact.

 

[ghitch75]

as i said.....junk

 

[qwerty]

.

 

[jwamplerusa]

Reference post 23, yes I was referring to the governor's protective detail. I posted without my usual restraint, due to the visceral reaction to the governor's tweet.

Something I read this morning, stated the initial call was for a domestic disturbance. While speculation isn't particularly helpful, considering all that has been discussed so far, I might as well throw this out.

It has been reported there were children in the car. If the police believed an unlawful child abduction was in progress (non custodial parent), they may have well been motivated to stop a kidnapping. You don't let the perp take the children. NOTHING GOOD ever happens after the kidnapper has the abductee in their control.

Consider the cases in our own state were parents have taken and murdered their own children. If those officers believed the perp was a lethal threat to the children, they couldn't let him take them.

Now, on a more general level, I am absolutely in awe of the level of professionalism and restraint so many of our LEO are showing. I don't know how they do it.

 

[ghitch75]

.

 

[Tombs]

Does this cop shoot his own family for disobeying? We don't have the runup facts at this point: BUT the guy didn't appear to be threatening the police or anyone else when headed to his car. What is lost if the cops just let him leave? Face? In light of all the cautions that I'm sure are given to all departments this summer?

I look at this and I wonder what we would feel like if it happened in Indianapolis.

If I was going to be critical of the cops for anything, it'd be not immediately grabbing the the individual instead of allowing him to get back in the car.

Something has to be done, law enforcement wise, to create a new SOP for when a perp is refusing to follow orders. This situation seems to be one of the leading causes of shootings that upset the general public.

As far as just letting a perp do what ever a perp wants to do, we're demoing that around the country in most major cities right now. That doesn't look like an alternative at all, to me.

I honestly don’t have a good reason why one would continue to disobey orders, but me and you were taught differently. I won’t argue on the side of the road with an officer, if he’s going to arrest me, even if I know 100% without a doubt I’m right, I’ll let him arrest me and fight it through court. Nobody wins in a fight with an officer, it will only lead to ruined lives for everyone involved.

Which is why I think the best resolution to the situation is to start with public education rather than police reform. Lets not reward this kind of behavior as it leads to mass societal unrest. Lets teach people that the side of the road is not the time to argue or fight "the system."

It's not just for your safety and the officer's safety, it's for society's safety as a whole as it avoids situations that end up in riots and protests.

There's no legitimate reason to be getting into **** on the side of the road.

If someone wants to play stupid games when deadly force is in play, they earn their stupid prize, IMO.

 

[ditcherman]

So, there was a warrant for his arrest.

He stated he was going to get a gun.

I assume y'all have links?

It is a rare occasion that I will post in a serious thread without reading the whole thing, so I assumed this was covered. I also try very hard to not hypothesize, or inject unknowns.
I haven’t stated he was going for a gun, that is an unknown.
He had a long criminal record, which in no way shape or form should get you made dead or even shot, but it does raise suspicions, as I believe it should from an officer that is required under WI law to bring in someone when a domestic disturbance is called in.
Is it up for debate that an officer might treat me who never even got a paddling in school differently than a street thug with a record?

Mike Glover and American Contingency on IG are doing a good job of covering this, mainstream media is not. They have a different motivation and it is obvious.

Having trouble finding a link to his record, but I have a screenshot of it here...

 

[Tombs]

So, a guy gets called over to the neighbors to break up a cat fight. These neighbors fight almost daily and he's sick of it, but he tries to calm it down before the popo shows up again. He's got a car full of kids on a hot freaking day.

Cop shows up hassling HIM! He was the peacemaker. He says, "go talk to the people you were called to investigate". He walks to his car.

Cop says "stop or I'll shoot!"

WTF, homie asks. Shoot me? **** you.

Blam...blam blam blam blam blam blam......blam.

Now, that may or may not have happened. Sure looks to me like I might be close. Maybe not.

If so....there are a number of points in there where bad decisions are made on both sides. But, the guy with 6 or 7 shots outta his pistol has a greater responsibility to make sure each and everyone of those was necessary.

I think it stinks so far.

But, I'll wait on facts.

And what prevented him from complying with officers? His ego?

What's a legitimate excuse for not just going along until the situation is sorted out and everyone is clear on who's the good guy and who's the bad guy?

Cops aren't omnipotent and telepathic, things must be sorted out when they show up to a situation like this. And if it's a dangerous situation, they may need to detain everyone involved for everyone involved's safety.

Think about this:
1.) You arrive at the scene of a domestic disturbance and don't know all of the parties involved
2.) You attempt to detain those involved for questioning
3.) An individual resists being detained and rushes back to his car

Now 1 of 2 things may happen if you don't intervene.
A.) The individual flees the situation
B.) The individual retrieves a firearm from his vehicle to shoot the people he was arguing with, you, or anyone in the area

Are you prepared to live with yourself if situation B happens?

 

[Cameramonkey]

And what prevented him from complying with officers? His ego?

In a word, yes.

F* da police.

 

[BugI02]

Just watched the video again (several times). I still think he made a furtive move just after opening the door but I can't say it's conclusive. Hard to tell if he made the move or was being pushed (or falling) forward.

The fact that they tried unsuccessfully to tase him prior to this, coupled with the fact that their legal structure requires them to intervene, makes me think that they concluded he was the one going to jail for domestic violence. Alpo says that was his residence, was one of the two women his wife/baby momma? If he intervened to break up a fight between two women, did he strike one of them. There are a lot of unknowns and basically about 15 mins of video prior to the lethal force that I hope we get to see

 

[BugI02]

Don't recharacterize MY view, especially if you intend to piecemeal it to fit your remarks. I'm not on trial here. If you don't have a view of the situation, just pass.

My first post on this thread:

Originally Posted by Alpo
Need a lot more facts to conclude what prompted the escalation to a discharged firearm.

Optics support additional confirmation that police reform is mandatory.

Personally, it certainly looks like the cop is the worst type of coward....but I'll await more facts on the runup to the shoot.

So, to paraphrase, it seems you are saying the LEO involved was a cowardly scurrilous bastard but you'll wait to make a judgement? WTF?

 

[BugI02]

Hey man that's my emoji.....

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