Beer Virus V

[jamil]

Yahoo news this week (cant find the article right now) was saying that Biden's team was thinking of 2 ways of going with the vaccine.

1. Making it a national requirement that everyone get it.
2. Pushing it on to the states to decided but requiring some type of proof if to enter federal spaces (ie parks, buildings, etc)
Aka "show me your papers please"

What do you guys think of these appeoaches?
I dont like either of them.

Either way is bull****.

 

[Tombs]

This is where we're heading if folks don't stop giving into the fear of this virus:

https://twitter.com/MarketWatch/status/1308959892292726784

 

[BigRed]

This is where we're heading if folks don't stop giving into the fear of this virus:

https://twitter.com/MarketWatch/status/1308959892292726784

And the sheep would fall right in line.

 

[DoggyDaddy]

This is where we're heading if folks don't stop giving into the fear of this virus:

https://twitter.com/MarketWatch/status/1308959892292726784

They can have my red meat when they pry my cold dead animals from my cold dead hands!

 

[foszoe]

Even though I run a mac, updates are not seamless and trouble free. I prefer the answers to any problems I may have to already be available in the forums, developed by intrepid trail blazers, and thus minimize any personal inconvenience

A Windows user who downloads an update immediately would have to have a death wish, and worrying about security as a reason to be an early adopter would be better served by a switch to mac

I have always preferred rolling releases

 

[ghuns]

They can have my red meat when they pry my cold dead animals from my cold dead hands!

I prefer my red meat producing dead animals to be served warm.

 

[printcraft]

And the sheep would fall right in line.

Come on man! It's only a 6 week lockdown to flatten the climate curve.

 

[foszoe]

Come on man! It's only a 6 week lockdown to flatten the climate curve.

On the BBC, they talked about how we are getting ahead of the climate change curve because of the changes brought about by Covid!

 

[dusty88]

I'm not. It makes no sense, if the vaccine works as advertised (strong immune response in 90 - 95% you know), to require proof of vaccination.

I don't personally advocate government mandating vaccines. But to answer your question: 90% effective still leaves 10% susceptibility so having people walk around with the disease is still more risky for others.

If you travel internationally, you've at some point had to have vaccine verification. We'll get accepted back in other countries more quickly if we can show vaccination, most likely.

If we want commerce to recover, then having some airlines and businesses require vaccines will get the economy rolling more quickly. I might require it for my employees, but I won't make that decision until there is more safety data and widespread availability. It's the most responsible way to go back from curbside to full service, without putting my other employees or clients at risk.

My approach for the flu vaccine is not to require it, but to pay for it if they want to get it.

 

[BugI02]

Come on man! It's only a 6[66] week lockdown to flatten the climate curve.

Fixy

 

[dusty88]

Yahoo news this week (cant find the article right now) was saying that Biden's team was thinking of 2 ways of going with the vaccine.

1. Making it a national requirement that everyone get it.
2. Pushing it on to the states to decided but requiring some type of proof if to enter federal spaces (ie parks, buildings, etc)
Aka "show me your papers please"

What do you guys think of these appeoaches?
I dont like either of them.

I suspect the first would be unconstitutional, but the second is theoretically how they could get around that.

I don't see our government bureaucracy being organized enough to pull it off accurately. Take the global entry system as an example of something similar where they have to go to some effort to verify ID plus some information. It was backlogged long before the pandemic.

Also, demand is going to be high for a while anyway especially for people who want to travel.

I don't see us hitting a "government force" situation for a while. And by then it will be evident that the unvaccinated are making bad choices and a few more will continue to trickle in and get the vaccine.

 

[jamil]

I don't personally advocate government mandating vaccines. But to answer your question: 90% effective still leaves 10% susceptibility so having people walk around with the disease is still more risky for others.

If you travel internationally, you've at some point had to have vaccine verification. We'll get accepted back in other countries more quickly if we can show vaccination, most likely.

If we want commerce to recover, then having some airlines and businesses require vaccines will get the economy rolling more quickly. I might require it for my employees, but I won't make that decision until there is more safety data and widespread availability. It's the most responsible way to go back from curbside to full service, without putting my other employees or clients at risk.

If you’re willing to be responsible for adverse reactions.

 

[SheepDog4Life]

And the sheep would fall right in line.

Nah... 10 seconds to put a 50 cent mask on before going into a store... sure... riding a bike to the store? Ain't going to happen!

 

[BugI02]

I don't personally advocate government mandating vaccines. But to answer your question: 90% effective still leaves 10% susceptibility so having people walk around with the disease is still more risky for others.

If you travel internationally, you've at some point had to have vaccine verification. We'll get accepted back in other countries more quickly if we can show vaccination, most likely.

If we want commerce to recover, then having some airlines and businesses require vaccines will get the economy rolling more quickly. I might require it for my employees, but I won't make that decision until there is more safety data and widespread availability. It's the most responsible way to go back from curbside to full service, without putting my other employees or clients at risk.

This still doesn't make sense. If you get vaccinated you shouldn't need to care whether anyone near you has been vaccinated or not. If an unvaccinated person takes a flight they are only risking themselves, if everyone on the flight must be vaccinated then who is the requirement protecting and why does it make sense? Only in a mixed environment would it be useful.

 

[dusty88]

If you’re willing to be responsible for adverse reactions.

What's the legal standard for that? And how does it compare to me being responsible if one of my employees or clients is infected at my business? I can argue it the same way I would argue my personal decision for a vaccine: there is more risk in not getting vaccinated (unless of course the data changes).

Not being a lawyer, I suspect my actual responsibility is to be sure they are informed. Vaccine requirements aren't uncommon in business and school.

 

[DoggyDaddy]

I prefer my red meat producing dead animals to be served warm.

Well yeah, after I cook them.

 

[Phase2]

And the sheep would fall right in line.

Ivy League Study Shows How US Media Created a Climate of Fear Over COVID-19

 

[dusty88]

This still doesn't make sense. If you get vaccinated you shouldn't need to care whether anyone near you has been vaccinated or not. If an unvaccinated person takes a flight they are only risking themselves, if everyone on the flight must be vaccinated then who is the requirement protecting and why does it make sense? Only in a mixed environment would it be useful.

If I get the vaccine and theoretically have a 90% chance of being protected, then my chance of dying from Covid (should I be exposed) has gone from 1 in 200 to 1 in 2000. (I'll leave out the morbidity issues for the sake of simplicity). So I'm definitely at much lower risk.

But if I fly with a group of people who are also vaccinated, the chance of any of them being infectious is pretty slim (that math would require something like a 10% figure of infection, starting with the incidence of disease where they left from etc)

But if I fly with a group of unvaccinated people, I'm going to get closer to that 1 in 2000 chance again at some point. Is that good enough? Maybe. But it is different if society is vaccinated vs if I'm just vaccinated myself.

We usually don't know which individual are going to mount a great immune response, so having more people vaccinated protects those without the great immune response.

 

[JCSR]

This still doesn't make sense. If you get vaccinated you shouldn't need to care whether anyone near you has been vaccinated or not. If an unvaccinated person takes a flight they are only risking themselves, if everyone on the flight must be vaccinated then who is the requirement protecting and why does it make sense? Only in a mixed environment would it be useful.

The problem is you give up control by allowing unvaccinated people to mingle among the sheep.

 

[HoughMade]

Yahoo news this week (cant find the article right now) was saying that Biden's team was thinking of 2 ways of going with the vaccine.

1. Making it a national requirement that everyone get it.

They know very well that there is no precedent for this. Further, especially with the SCOTUS we have now, it is unlikely that it will be found that there is authority under the Constitution for the federal government to make such a mandate.

2. Pushing it on to the states to decided but requiring some type of proof if to enter federal spaces (ie parks, buildings, etc)
Aka "show me your papers please"

"Pushing" it on the states? Ever since there have been mandatory vaccinations (over 100 years) it has been under state law. Clearly, this is constitutional, at least with proven vaccines. As for entering federal spaces- that would satisfy the jurisdictional "hook" for federal authority, but good luck enforcing it outside of federal courthouses. ...and "show me your papers"? We ask for papers in many contexts. I don't think that makes anyone a Nazi.

What do you guys think of these appeoaches?
I dont like either of them.

Without getting into political opinions, I don't think either are necessary at this time or any time soon.

Vaccinations will be of limited supply for some time, so why not simply allow those who want it to get it and then see where natural resistance (getting it and recovering) as well as vaccinations get us in terms of reduced transmission rates and all that goes with that. In the end, I don't think that the "50% won't get it" number will hold, and even if it does for a while, there will not be enough supply to get 50% of people vaccinated for some time.