Amazon workers just voted to join a union

[Ingomike]

Dont get frustrated that a few of us that have spent decades easily refuting what you post in this thread.

You have refuted nothing, just posting union talking points.

 

[Ingomike]

Interesting how those Unions still make those Corporations make those monthly deposits into that Union Penison Fund so the Vested Union Members get that retirment check still today.

Who controls the money? The company or union? The unions I have been in received the money and managed the pension. You really think it superior that a union has your retirement money rather than you having it?

 

[Creedmoor]

You have refuted nothing, just posting union talking points.

LoL.

 

[Jaybird1980]

Hard to say. I know that our plants are non-union and there no worker/mgmt antagonism like the stuff described here. Safety is huge. If a supervisor tried to get an employee to do something that did not follow safety protocols, they would be the one facing discipline not the employee.

This sounds like a company that values good management. That's good and probably would not have a need for a union.

That doesn't mean that's how all companies are. The company I work for does not value lower management at all. They're disposable fall guys that's it, and they know it. That is what also leads to the us vs them crap. If you knew how many times I've heard supervisors complaint about how much we make it's ridiculous.

That kind of stuff seems so easy to fix to me. Start treating management good and giving them a good wage and they would like their job and want to be good at it. Heck you could also probably get guys to go from physical to company side when they get older. Who wants to still be turning wrenches after 35-40 years, and those guys know the place inside and out.

 

[Creedmoor]

Who controls the money? The company or union? The unions I have been in received the money and managed the pension. You really think it superior that a union has your retirement money rather than you having it?

My International Union Benefits Plan invests my penison money and disperses checks to vested members at the appropriate time.

Most employees in the working world cant even fill the paperwork out for a 401 much less chose what fund or funds to invest in. So many in the working world give up that free matching 401 money. You get the I cant afford that or i'll start it next year.
So why would one believe that they have the knowledge to save and invest over their working years?
One needs to look no farther than how much of todays retired live on Social Security checks. They never stayed long enough, never moved up, never signed up for a roth or 401k.
They used to call Roths and 401k's supplemental penisons.

 

[actaeon277]

Hard to say. I know that our plants are non-union and there no worker/mgmt antagonism like the stuff described here. Safety is huge. If a supervisor tried to get an employee to do something that did not follow safety protocols, they would be the one facing discipline not the employee.

Well, that's the thing.
If you have good management, then I think most don't want to deal with a union.
I wasn't overly ecstatic about mine.
But, there's no way I'd work where I was without one.
We even had managers wishing they were in the union.
And a few managers that tried to get employees to do their job (the manager's job), so that they (manager) could not get in trouble. After all, the union employee at least had some degree of protection.

 

[Ingomike]

My International Union Benefits Plan invests my penison money and disperses checks to vested members at the appropriate time.

Most employees in the working world cant even fill the paperwork out for a 401 much less chose what fund or funds to invest in. So many in the working world give up that free matching 401 money. You get the I cant afford that or i'll start it next year.
So why would one believe that they have the knowledge to save and invest over their working years?
One needs to look no farther than how much of todays retired live on Social Security checks. They never stayed long enough, never moved up, never signed up for a roth or 401k.
They used to call Roths and 401k's supplemental penisons.

And the union control of all that money is just pure as fresh snow.

I thought INGO was all about freedom and the individuals control of what belongs to them? But now you are saying that we all are to stupid to manage our own money and need a union to do it for us…

 

[CRAWPPIE]

New union = More campaing revenue for the Democrats.

I concur. And public unions are the biggest conflict of interest in our universe. Skilled labor is the only legitimate use of labor unions, IMO...

 

[Creedmoor]

And the union control of all that money is just pure as fresh snow.

I thought INGO was all about freedom and the individuals control of what belongs to them? But now you are saying that we all are to stupid to manage our own money and need a union to do it for us…

Back to your poor compression of reading, heres what I posted.

"Most employees" in the working world cant even fill the paperwork out for a 401 much less chose what fund or funds to invest in. So many in the working world give up that free matching 401 money. You get the I cant afford that or i'll start it next year.

Start asking at work who in involved in the companys 401 and I bet its no more than 30 to 40% of non management.

You havent responded to why private pensions disappeared?

Along with the endlessly moving goal post.

Why are you so angry about people that stuck it out and earned a nice penison and annuity? Along with a 401 and Social Security?

 

[STAGE 2]

Wow.
Nice sweeping statement.
Have you been EVERYWHERE in society?

When Indiana went 'Right to Work', several quit our union.
Funny thing, just about all came back pretty quick.

It’s only sweeping because of what unions have morphed into. When we had child labor, 18 hour work days and people were losing hands in machinery daily they were a necessity. However those problems don’t exist any more and now their only purpose is to maintain their existence.

As far as your coworkers, I’d argue that much like many government employees, the fact that they couldn’t hack it in the private sector isn’t an indictment of anyone but them.

 

[STAGE 2]

No place in society you say, what employment in todays working world gives you a penison? A great 401 and with some Unions an Annuity.
Not once did a Union Bossman reach over my shoulder and pull a different lever than I wanted to vote for.
Quasi Criminal. lol
Enriching Leadership you say? Like the Leadership and Management with all Business's and Corporate Executives and Owners.

And I ask again, what happened to yesterdays pensions?
They weren't replaced with 401's they just evaporated.
Talk about being taken advantage of by The Corporate Man.

Many non-union companies still offer a pension. My wife has one in fact. If you think that this is strictly a union perk then I would respectfully say that you aren’t qualified to opine on this topic. And that’s not counting a 401k which nearly all non entry level jobs offer today, and even some entry level ones.

As far as criminal, you can scoff, but you do realize that the department of justice has a specific division devoted just to labor unions. This isn't ancient history either. The UAW, Teamsters, longshoremen, IBEW, and the rest have all had leaders convicted or enter guilty pleas very recently.

As above, if you are going to take the position that unions have not been infiltrated by organized crime then you are no student of history.

 

[actaeon277]

It’s only sweeping because of what unions have morphed into. When we had child labor, 18 hour work days and people were losing hands in machinery daily they were a necessity. However those problems don’t exist any more and now their only purpose is to maintain their existence.

As far as your coworkers, I’d argue that much like many government employees, the fact that they couldn’t hack it in the private sector isn’t an indictment of anyone but them.

Once again.
Nice sweeping statement.
Were you there, working your 16 hour shift above a furnace?

Those problems don't exist anymore? HA
I've seen OSHA only for infrequent inspections that worry about a railing being 1.5 centimeters too short, or AFTER a worker is killed when they fine the company $2,000.


You are making blanket statements, and it seems from a position of ignorance.
It's like an anti-gunner saying YOU don't need a gun, because HE doesn't need a gun.

 

[Jaybird1980]

Once again.
Nice sweeping statement.
Were you there, working your 16 hour shift above a furnace?

Those problems don't exist anymore? HA
I've seen OSHA only for infrequent inspections that worry about a railing being 1.5 centimeters too short, or AFTER a worker is killed when they fine the company $2,000.


You are making blanket statements, and it seems from a position of ignorance.
It's like an anti-gunner saying YOU don't need a gun, because HE doesn't need a gun.

Exactly.

The people that say these problems no longer exist only say that because they haven't experienced it.

I have witnessed the tented walkways to escort OSHA to the site of an accident. I've seen what happens after the fact.
The people who think OSHA is going to somehow protect them are mistaken.

 

[STAGE 2]

Once again.
Nice sweeping statement.
Were you there, working your 16 hour shift above a furnace?

Those problems don't exist anymore? HA
I've seen OSHA only for infrequent inspections that worry about a railing being 1.5 centimeters too short, or AFTER a worker is killed when they fine the company $2,000.


You are making blanket statements, and it seems from a position of ignorance.
It's like an anti-gunner saying YOU don't need a gun, because HE doesn't need a gun.

Where I was working has nothing to do with the fact that unions have outlived their time. OSHA is clearly imperfect, much as any other government agency is, but no one is forced to pay dues to OSHA. OSHA doesn't slash tires or intimidate others on whether to support a strike.

But to answer your question directly, no these problems dont exist anymore because there are laws prohibiting them. The system isn't perfect by any means, but unless you are going to tell me that people aren't hurt or dont die in union factories, then you dont have a point.

Show me a union that's willing to attach benefits to productivity and then we can find some common ground. Until then, there is nothing but evidence that they are quasi criminal organizations that exist only to maintain their existence and enrich those in leadership.

 

[actaeon277]

Where I was working has nothing to do with the fact that unions have outlived their time. OSHA is clearly imperfect, much as any other government agency is, but no one is forced to pay dues to OSHA. OSHA doesn't slash tires or intimidate others on whether to support a strike.

But to answer your question directly, no these problems dont exist anymore because there are laws prohibiting them. The system isn't perfect by any means, but unless you are going to tell me that people aren't hurt or dont die in union factories, then you dont have a point.

Show me a union that's willing to attach benefits to productivity and then we can find some common ground. Until then, there is no evidence that they are quasi criminal organizations that exist only to maintain their existence and enrich those in leadership.

Don't want to work in a union, then don't work in a union.

I don't like pink cars.
Doesn't mean there is no "need" for pink cars.

And quasi criminal, can apply to so many organizations.

 

[DoggyDaddy]

Until then, there is no evidence that they are quasi criminal organizations that exist only to maintain their existence and enrich those in leadership.

I think you just contradicted your own argument.

 

[DoggyDaddy]

I don't like pink cars.

You will never be an Elvis impersonator. Or a Mary Kay representative.

 

[actaeon277]

And deaths happen, because heavy industry is dangerous.

Watched the company bring in a contractor, because the union deemed the job to be dangerous, and against the companies own rules.
The contractor then lived long enough to be burned alive by the liquid iron that broke through and engulfed him and his bulldozer.

 

[actaeon277]

You will never be an Elvis impersonator. Or a Mary Kay representative.

Oh no.
What WILL I do?

 

[STAGE 2]

Exactly.

The people that say these problems no longer exist only say that because they haven't experienced it.

I have witnessed the tented walkways to escort OSHA to the site of an accident. I've seen what happens after the fact.
The people who think OSHA is going to somehow protect them are mistaken.

Again, because there are no union fatalities right?