Will you take the Covid Vaccine?

[HoughMade]

No and I can't be compelled!!!

Is someone trying to "compel" you?

 

[JettaKnight]

Is someone trying to "compel" you?

Fr. Karras?

 

[JettaKnight]

I had a conversation at dinner with a woman, "Well, I'm just worried about long term side effects of the vaccine."

That's a rational concern - There's currently no known side effects. There potentially could be, but that's still an unknown.

But from a risk assessment analysis, it's bad logic.

With COVID-19 there are widely known long lasting side effects - loss of smell, respiratory illness, lack of concentration, fatigue, etc. And those are just the ones identified in the last year.



So, you're willing to accept (via roll of the infection die) known potential side effects in order to avoid no know side effects?

 

[Ingomike]

I had a conversation at dinner with a woman, "Well, I'm just worried about long term side effects of the vaccine."

That's a rational concern - There's currently no known side effects. There potentially could be, but that's still an unknown.

But from a risk assessment analysis, it's bad logic.

With COVID-19 there are widely known long lasting side effects - loss of smell, respiratory illness, lack of concentration, fatigue, etc. And those are just the ones identified in the last year.



So, you're willing to accept (via roll of the infection die) known potential side effects in order to avoid no know side effects?

A bald face propaganda lie. "There are no known side effects." Even baby aspirin has side effects.

We have no idea the long term effects, it hasn't been studied long enough.

You made your decision for you, why do you put down this woman for making, at least, an equally rational decision?

Oh I know why, because the government you love says it is good, therefore it is good. TPTB all want the people to take the vaccine, therefore you deem it good and anyone of differing opinions is a conspiracy theorist.

Funny thing about conspiracy theorists, they all are saying what the powerful don't want said, whether what they say is true or not, conspiracy claims are made to shut people up...

 

[melensdad]

I've known a few close to me pass away because of COVID-19. It's no joke. The vaccine, side-effects and all, is the better alternative.

Sorry for your losses.

I've have 2 close friends who had family members die. But I was not close to those who died so its a little be more removed for me. I also have a close friend who suffers from what is termed "long haul" Covid where you technically no longer have the disease but you have serious long term complications from the disease.

My daughter, age 26, is on her way to her appointment for her first shot right now. She is considered "high risk" due to a medical condition. I will rest easier after that shot begins to build her immunity over the next couple of weeks.

 

[SheepDog4Life]

A bald face propaganda lie. "There are no known side effects." Even baby aspirin has side effects.

We have no idea the long term effects, it hasn't been studied long enough.

IMO, he said exactly what you did about long term side effects... but you editted his quote to something he did not say in order to argue... and call it propaganda... full quote:

That's a rational concern - There's currently no known side effects. There potentially could be, but that's still an unknown.

 

[Ingomike]

IMO, he said exactly what you did about long term side effects... but you editted his quote to something he did not say in order to argue... and call it propaganda... full quote:

Ok, "There's currently no known side effects". Does the word currently change anything? I'm sure there is a list of know side effects somewhere at least similar to virtually every other medication.

It's the I know better than you attitude presented here and in other posts. He then goes on to explain her "bad logic", and present hers as "bad" for her to make a decision that differed from hers.

Those that believe as she does have their opinion demeaned, censored, and they are called names and worse is on the way.

 

[SheepDog4Life]

I had a conversation at dinner with a woman, "Well, I'm just worried about long term side effects of the vaccine."

That's a rational concern - There's currently no known side effects. There potentially could be, but that's still an unknown.

But from a risk assessment analysis, it's bad logic.

With COVID-19 there are widely known long lasting side effects - loss of smell, respiratory illness, lack of concentration, fatigue, etc. And those are just the ones identified in the last year.



So, you're willing to accept (via roll of the infection die) known potential side effects in order to avoid no know side effects?

Bad logic, but very human... fear of the unknown, not having all of the information someone wants to KNOW the right decision very often causes people not to decide.

It's not unique to this particular decision... anyone who's had to regularly make decisions with incomplete, missing information knows that not deciding, doing nothing, is also a decision. It often has the false halo of being the "safer" route.

Ok, "There's currently no known side effects". Does the word currently change anything? I'm sure there is a list of know side effects somewhere at least similar to virtually every other medication.

It's the I know better than you attitude presented here and in other posts. He then goes on to explain her "bad logic", and present hers as "bad" for her to make a decision that differed from hers.

Those that believe as she does have their opinion demeaned, censored, and they are called names and worse is on the way.

See above... it is "bad logic" in the Spock sense... it simply does not compute, purely logically.

But it is a very, very human way of reasoning about decisions that require either taking action or not, there is normally a strong bias not to act, as doing the "something" might be the wrong decision, while downplaying that doing nothing is also a decision and may be the wrong one. "Did the wrong thing" is often thought of as worse than "I should have..."

 

[Ingomike]

Is someone trying to "compel" you?

Yes, they are, currently passive, but attempting to compel.

It starts with the government that is rolling out the vaccines holding out the carrot of normalcy if we just do the vaccine.

Then it is pushed by the deep state media and social media, where only one side is allowed to speak their thoughts, including expert scientists and doctors that counter their experts.

They then use the scared to promote and compel others to get vaccinated that otherwise would not.

Real world example: friends that do not want the vaccine under any circumstances were pressured by their scared daughter in law, that they could not see the grandkids unless they got vaccinated. They relented, I woul have changed my will. LOL. They were compelled by the fears promulgated by TPTB.

As time goes on they will demand more...

 

[JettaKnight]

Ah, SheepDog, now you're making me click "show ignored content"....

Nope. Still not worth my time.

Mike, perhaps if you framed your arguments in facts you profess to hold dear instead of flummery like "chemicals" and "the powerful" it be worth considering.

I boiled it down to a simple risk assessment: No conspiracies, no scare words, no mocking, no nonsense.

Bad logic, but very human... fear of the unknown, not having all of the information someone wants to KNOW the right decision very often causes people not to decide.

It's not unique to this particular decision... anyone who's had to regularly make decisions with incomplete, missing information knows that not deciding, doing nothing, is also a decision. It often has the false halo of being the "safer" route.

I think you're right about the "do nothing" approach. A bit of that in the normalcy bias.

And pretty much any social scientist, psychologist, or economist will tell you humans are bad at risk assessment.


And a curious thought just hit me: If you believe the virus was made in a chemical weapons lab in China, why would you prefer it over a vaccine developed in America?

 

[Jaybird1980]

Real world example: friends that do not want the vaccine under any circumstances were pressured by their scared daughter in law, that they could not see the grandkids unless they got vaccinated. They relented, I woul have changed my will. LOL. They were compelled by the fears promulgated by TPTB.

As time goes on they will demand more...

This is a choice the daughter in law is allowed to make, you didn't say how the son in law factors in. It is also a decision that the Grandparents made on their own, they had options and they weighed the benefits to them. You seem to be implying that anyone who chooses to get vaccinated is of weak mind and only does so because of propaganda and that just isn't always the case. Does it happen, sure, but to what extent is unknown.

The fact is the government will almost always try to gain power/control in a situation and this is no different.

 

[Ingomike]

Bad logic, but very human... fear of the unknown, not having all of the information someone wants to KNOW the right decision very often causes people not to decide.

It's not unique to this particular decision... anyone who's had to regularly make decisions with incomplete, missing information knows that not deciding, doing nothing, is also a decision. It often has the false halo of being the "safer" route.


See above... it is "bad logic" in the Spock sense... it simply does not compute, purely logically.

But it is a very, very human way of reasoning about decisions that require either taking action or not, there is normally as strong bias not to act, as doing the "something" might be the wrong decision, while downplaying that doing nothing is also a decision and may be the wrong one.

I couldn't care less if anyone wants to inject chemicals in their body. Being consistent on that point I have been over the so called war on drugs (actually a war on civil rights) for nearly 30 years.

We know drugs have side effects, we just do not know the severity.

All this vaccine discussion is driven by fear, those that take it have a fear, for various reasons, that not taking the vaccine will be worse for them than if they do. For some they personally have risks and they hope the vaccine mitigates those risks. For others it may be a family member they believe at risk, their job, a plethora of other issues, and again they hope the vaccine mitigates that risk. The unknown risk of side effects is far away and the immediate need is what consumes their thinking. The bias of thinking that man must act.

There are millions of healthy families out there that don't have risks that compel them to take the vaccine, they are fine as they are, and the unknown risks of the vaccine are a risk they do not want to incur. Yet those in the former category want to force them to get the vaccine so others can feel there is less risk.

Yep, those pushing the vaccine on others are pushing an unknown risk on to those that do not want it to feel like their own current risk is less...

 

[SheepDog4Life]

I think you're right about the "do nothing" approach. A bit of that in the normalcy bias.

And pretty much any social scientist, psychologist, or economist will tell you humans are bad at risk assessment.

There is also a "panic mode" flipside of that coin... "do something, anything, try everything". I've seen more servers crashed due to a "shotgun" approach of pretty much randomly "trying things", lol! The worst is when a "leader" instills this.

 

[Ingomike]

This is a choice the daughter in law is allowed to make, you didn't say how the son in law factors in. It is also a decision that the Grandparents made on their own, they had options and they weighed the benefits to them. You seem to be implying that anyone who chooses to get vaccinated is of weak mind and only does so because of propaganda and that just isn't always the case. Does it happen, sure, but to what extent is unknown.

The fact is the government will almost always try to gain power/control in a situation and this is no different.

Holding your grandkids hostage to force a chemical injection on the grandparents is cool in your world? Wow.

Why wound anyone take a vaccine that was not created just a year ago? Fear created by propaganda. Why is it propaganda? Because even credentialed professionals are not allowed to even discuss or speak anything other than the official script. When death rate was not scary enough they switched in lockstep to cases. That is propaganda

And yes the government is using this to consolidate power...

 

[JettaKnight]

There is also a "panic mode" flipside of that coin... "do something, anything, try everything". I've seen more servers crashed due to a "shotgun" approach of pretty much randomly "trying things", lol! The worst is when a "leader" instills this.

Oh yeah, been there, done that.


There is one valid argument that can be made: Most everyone really, really wants a safe, effective vaccine right now, so there is a big incentive to cover up any known side effects.

Not saying it's happening, just that it's a valid reason to keep an eye on the result data.
However, EU countries are showing they're on guard against that - perhaps too much.

 

[SheepDog4Life]

I couldn't care less if anyone wants to inject chemicals in their body. Being consistent on that point I have been over the so called war on drugs (actually a war on civil rights) for nearly 30 years.

We know drugs have side effects, we just do not know the severity.

All this vaccine discussion is driven by fear, those that take it have a fear, for various reasons, that not taking the vaccine will be worse for them than if they do. For some they personally have risks and they hope the vaccine mitigates those risks. For others it may be a family member they believe at risk, their job, a plethora of other issues, and again they hope the vaccine mitigates that risk. The unknown risk of side effects is far away and the immediate need is what consumes their thinking. The bias of thinking that man must act.

There are millions of healthy families out there that don't have risks that compel them to take the vaccine, they are fine as they are, and the unknown risks of the vaccine are a risk they do not want to incur. Yet those in the former category want to force them to get the vaccine so others can feel there is less risk.

Yep, those pushing the vaccine on others are pushing an unknown risk on to those that do not want it to feel like their own current risk is less...

Mike, some people on both sides make their decision out of "fear". Some fear the virus and simply take the vaccine. Some fear the unknown, and by definition unknowable*, long term possible side effects and elect not to take the vaccine solely based on that fear.

Others do their due diligence and decide, one way or the other, evaluating their risk/benefit for their situation.

*unknowable because you cannot know the 1yr/5yr/10yr side effects until 1/5/10 years from now. So right now, it's unknowable.

 

[Jaybird1980]

Holding your grandkids hostage to force a chemical injection on the grandparents is cool in your world? Wow. I never said it's cool, actually I think it's quite shi**y, but they're still her kids.

Why wound anyone take a vaccine that was not created just a year ago? Fear created by propaganda. Or a serious health concern, and they don't see a better option. Why is it propaganda? Because even credentialed professionals are not allowed to even discuss or speak anything other than the official script. When death rate was not scary enough they switched in lockstep to cases. That is propaganda The healthcare system is not responsible for this.

And yes the government is using this to consolidate power... Once again this is an issue with government and msm, not the entire healthcare system.

I am not against people not taking the vaccines. I am against telling people they shouldn't choose to get the vaccines, and only do so because of propaganda.

 

[SheepDog4Life]

Oh yeah, been there, done that.


There is one valid argument that can be made: Most everyone really, really wants a safe, effective vaccine right now, so there is a big incentive to cover up any known side effects.

Not saying it's happening, just that it's a valid reason to keep an eye on the result data.
However, EU countries are showing they're on guard against that - perhaps too much.

Yes, prior to Jan 21st, I was pretty confident the MSM would widely and loudly report any vaccine failures... but that switch has flipped, lol!

 

[tbhausen]

So much “hot air” here. I’m going to boil it down from my point of view:

In the past, even the recent past, I was not intending to take a vaccine. A couple of things changed my mind. It had nothing to do with compulsion, propaganda, or anything else. We should all be able to factor that nonsense out and make decisions for ourselves, right? I did. Why can’t everyone else?

I decided to take a vaccine not for myself, but primarily for others. I happen to have many older friends, and whether their fears are rational or not is irrelevant. I could never stand the thought of unknowingly infecting someone else, especially if they suffer long-term effects or even die. These vaccines are proven to be highly effective. If my taking one saves others, it was a good decision.

The other reason I decided to take the vaccine is because I’m a realist. I’m 57. I know I have a lot fewer days left on this rock than I’ve already had, even under the best of circumstances. If I was 20 years younger, I’d be more worried about potential, unknown side effects. I know people who have died and people who will never be the same for the rest of their lives because they’ve had this virus. So I guess, in a sense, I’m agreeing with JettaKnight in that the known long-term effects of the disease are a lot worse than the potential unknown long-term effects of the vaccines.

Life is a series of risk/reward decisions. I weighed these factors for myself and made my own decision. No compulsion from government or friends, no guilt tripping, just me and my personal decision.

 

[Ingomike]

Mike, some people on both sides make their decision out of "fear". Some fear the virus and simply take the vaccine. Some fear the unknown, and by definition unknowable*, long term possible side effects and elect not to take the vaccine solely based on that fear.

Others do their due diligence and decide, one way or the other, evaluating their risk/benefit for their situation.

*unknowable because you cannot know the 1yr/5yr/10yr side effects until 1/5/10 years from now. So right now, it's unknowable.

All decisions on the vaccine are are based on fear of the known and unknown. Was due diligence doto make you rich or better looking? No. It was done because the fear of the virus prompted action.

No one is taking a vaccine thinking they will be better looking or will live forever. They are taking it to avoid either what they see they fear or what they can't see they fear. Hope is a positive way of expressing what one fears. I hope it doesn't rain, the unexpressed is I fear it will...

Millions have seen millions of commercials that begin with "have you or a loved one taken xxxxx medication". They are not stupid they know the likelihood of long term side effects for at least some people and they fear those side effects.

It is interesting the attitudes of those that take a handful of perscriptions daily vs. those that take no medication and strive not to.