Will you take the Covid Vaccine?

[melensdad]

Rest assured I'm not confusing surgical masks with N95.

OK you may know but many others may not. For those who may not know the difference, a simple graphic:

https://www.cdc.gov/niosh/npptl/pdfs/UnderstandDifferenceInfographic-508.pdf

And for those who want to understand why the differences matter and why surgical masks may only be 10% effective:

N95 Respirators and Surgical Masks | Blogs | CDC

CDC - Blogs - NIOSH Science Blog – N95 Respirators and Surgical Masks -

blogs.cdc.gov

 

[rooster]

It is possible to think that everyone should make their own decision, but SHOCKER it would be nice if people used real information to inform their decision, not speculation built on a preconceived position...on either side.

.gov has a bad reputation for not being entirely honest with the American public. So it’s not entirely surprising that when they suddenly need everyone to believe them that a large % are calling BS.

 

[HoughMade]

.gov has a bad reputation for not being entirely honest with the American public. So it’s not entirely surprising that when they suddenly need everyone to believe them that a large % are calling BS.

Granted, the gvt. is often not reliable, but just because the gvt. says something does not make the opposite true.

So look elsewhere for reliable information...other than memes.

Examples

Interim Results of a Phase 1–2a Trial of Ad26.COV2.S Covid-19 Vaccine | NEJM

Original Article from The New England Journal of Medicine — Interim Results of a Phase 1–2a Trial of Ad26.COV2.S Covid-19 Vaccine

www.nejm.org

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/nejmoa2034577

Moderna COVID-19 Vaccine (2024-2025 Formula) | Moderna

Learn about Moderna's COVID vaccine for children ages 6 months to 11 years.

www.modernatx.com

DEFINE_ME

 

[mbills2223]

OK you may know but many others may not. For those who may not know the difference, a simple graphic:

https://www.cdc.gov/niosh/npptl/pdfs/UnderstandDifferenceInfographic-508.pdf

And for those who want to understand why the differences matter and why surgical masks may only be 10% effective:

N95 Respirators and Surgical Masks | Blogs | CDC

CDC - Blogs - NIOSH Science Blog – N95 Respirators and Surgical Masks -

blogs.cdc.gov

By your own link, they may also be as much as 90% effective. The difference was manufacturer of the mask. Also, this is from 2009, does not relate specifically to SARS-CoV-2, and cites studies conducted in the 80s and 90s that were set in an operation room where environmental controls and preventative measures make it extremely unlikely to spread infection anyway.

I'll be honest, I don't know if I can find them again, but I saw an excellent study (among others) that conducted efficacy studies across numerous mask types, materials, and manufacturers. Surgical masks from reputable manufacturers were nearly as effective as N95s. A separate study found no statistically significant difference in efficacy between N95s and surgical masks.

 

[ditcherman]

So you have meta-analysis/analyses showing they don't work...I have meta-analyses showing they do...?

I bet we are approaching 15 thousand posts literally what you are describing like this on here, if you don’t just limit it to masks but to the covid subject in general. Out of what I bet is approaching 30k on the subject total.
Not sure where you joined in the conversation, glad you’re here, but a lot of us have been through this whole conversation and it just doesn’t surprise us, we’ve become callous and disrespectful of believing others. Cynical might be the word.

 

[mbills2223]

Not that I'm saying it shouldn't be annoying. It it's annoying on its own. But how does that make the job harder? Do people actually argue with you about the drugs when you're filling a prescription? Just curious. I mean. People don't really make use of your role until they have a prescription to fill. Even if I had some delusional belief about some med I was prescribed, I hope I'd just not get it filled rather than harass the pharmacist about it. Seems like a dispute about it would occur between the Dr and patient long before.

Yes, on a daily basis people cite misinformation to me regarding a variety of things as a reason for this or that. I can give them all the reasoning, experience, and data in the world, but if they've bought into the Facebook meme that cousin Kelly shared, I can't get through. They aren't necessarily harassing me, but they bring it up when we may ask about something related to meds. More often than not, they seem to just be looking for confirmation of their ridiculous belief from a healthcare provider, and when I don't give that they do tend to get a little whacko. As to your mention of conversation with a doctor, most patients don't say jack in a doctor's office and just smile and nod, then count on the pharmacy to do all of the things they should've done when they were at their appointment.

 

[mbills2223]

I bet we are approaching 15 thousand posts literally what you are describing like this on here, if you don’t just limit it to masks but to the covid subject in general. Out of what I bet is approaching 30k on the subject total.
Not sure where you joined in the conversation, glad you’re here, but a lot of us have been through this whole conversation and it just doesn’t surprise us, we’ve become callous and disrespectful of believing others. Cynical might be the word.

Not you in particular necessarily, but it comes off as contrary and politically motivated.

I suppose you'd say the same of me.

 

[ditcherman]

Granted, the gvt. is often not reliable, but just because the gvt. says something does not make the opposite true.

So look elsewhere for reliable information...other than memes.

Examples

Interim Results of a Phase 1–2a Trial of Ad26.COV2.S Covid-19 Vaccine | NEJM

Original Article from The New England Journal of Medicine — Interim Results of a Phase 1–2a Trial of Ad26.COV2.S Covid-19 Vaccine

www.nejm.org

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/nejmoa2034577

Moderna COVID-19 Vaccine (2024-2025 Formula) | Moderna

Learn about Moderna's COVID vaccine for children ages 6 months to 11 years.

www.modernatx.com

DEFINE_ME

No, you can’t make me! It’s memes only!!
Seriously though, people have gotten weary of the “info” and who to trust, and have just chosen a side. The danger for us is the division that comes with it. Divide and conquer.

 

[Ingomike]

It is possible to think that everyone should make their own decision, but SHOCKER it would be nice if people used real information to inform their decision, not speculation built on a preconceived position...on either side.

Is a preconception that one does not want ANY pharmaceutical drugs in their life a bad "preconceived position"? And until that person believes the negatives of not taking a medication are greater than the risks of the cure, it should be that individuals decision, and theirs alone.

I said "want" not talking about those that shun modern medicine, but rather those that want to live as cleanly as possible without medications.

I have had doctors tell me that at some point patients on several prescriptions are taking medications for the side effects of other medications. Americans have been duped into taking drugs for things they don't need too. They take drugs so they don't have to eat good food, they can then live on processed junk. They take drugs to maintain the couch potato lifestyle. Some people want to live on good food, hard work, and only take medications when absolutely necessary...

Wuwho flu is not a necessary situation by what I have observed...

 

[Ingomike]

Granted, the gvt. is often not reliable, but just because the gvt. says something does not make the opposite true.

So look elsewhere for reliable information...other than memes.

Examples

Interim Results of a Phase 1–2a Trial of Ad26.COV2.S Covid-19 Vaccine | NEJM

Original Article from The New England Journal of Medicine — Interim Results of a Phase 1–2a Trial of Ad26.COV2.S Covid-19 Vaccine

www.nejm.org

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/nejmoa2034577

Moderna COVID-19 Vaccine (2024-2025 Formula) | Moderna

Learn about Moderna's COVID vaccine for children ages 6 months to 11 years.

www.modernatx.com

DEFINE_ME

And the media and pharmaceutical companies have a bad reputation for not being entirely honest with the American public. So it’s not entirely surprising that when they suddenly need everyone to believe them that a large % are calling BS.

 

[ditcherman]

Not you in particular necessarily, but it comes off as contrary and politically motivated.

I suppose you'd say the same of me.

Definitely contrary!!! I’ll take that label all day long. The more millions or krispy cremes you offer me to take it the less I want it.
Personally not politically motivated, I am just as suspicious of anything the .gov says now as when Trump was in office.

Some of your posts I have initially seen as contrarian just to be, but it seems like you want the truth in the end, which I greatly respect. Lots on here like that and you can disagree and still respect. My contrariness kicks in when I don’t have the respect, like to the .gov changing the story, or the rules.

 

[ditcherman]

Is a preconception that one does not want ANY pharmaceutical drugs in their life a bad "preconceived position"? And until that person believes the negatives of not taking a medication are greater than the risks of the cure, it should be that individuals decision, and theirs alone.

I said "want" not talking about those that shun modern medicine, but rather those that want to live as cleanly as possible without medications.

I have had doctors tell me that at some point patients on several prescriptions are taking medications for the side effects of other medications. Americans have been duped into taking drugs for things they don't need too. They take drugs so they don't have to eat good food, they can then live on processed junk. They take drugs to maintain the couch potato lifestyle. Some people want to live on good food, hard work, and only take medications when absolutely necessary...

Wuwho flu is not a necessary situation by what I have observed...

Well said for the most part, no drugs is attainable, for how long I’ll see. Not against taking them, but for me if I take them I’ll not do what’s right.
I really enjoy listening to Dr Nick Wilson of maximized living on this subject.

I said for the most part; are you saying you have only seen unhealthy people or fat slobs or something get the beerbug? Definitely not true in my case.

 

[mbills2223]

Definitely contrary!!! I’ll take that label all day long. The more millions or krispy cremes you offer me to take it the less I want it.
Personally not politically motivated, I am just as suspicious of anything the .gov says now as when Trump was in office.

Some of your posts I have initially seen as contrarian just to be, but it seems like you want the truth in the end, which I greatly respect. Lots on here like that and you can disagree and still respect. My contrariness kicks in when I don’t have the respect, like to the .gov changing the story, or the rules.

Respect.

 

[HoughMade]

Is a preconception that one does not want ANY pharmaceutical drugs in their life a bad "preconceived position"?

Nope, that's perfectly reasonable. However, it's a position, not a claim of fact. Having that position is a personal thing and no one should have an issue with it.

Deciding what or who to believe or pass along as fact based upon whether they agree...that's not reasonable.

 

[rooster]

What, in your view, would informed consent require? What do you base this upon?

my personal definition would be to be upfront about the fact that if you have an adverse reaction you are on your own. I would also like adverse reactions to be better advertised instead of being scrubbed from media. You can look them up on CDC’s website and they exist but the second you bring them up to someone who is pro vaccine they want to say something g to the effect of “ that’s super rare and it won’t happen to you”. Well I’ll be honest I’ve had a bad string of luck with super rare events the last few years and I’m not taking any chances.

Informed consent

permission granted in the knowledge of the possible consequences, typically that which is given by a patient to a doctor for treatment with full knowledge of the possible risks and benefits.
"written informed consent was obtained from each patient"

 

[melensdad]

By your own link, they may also be as much as 90% effective.

YES 90% effective at a LOWER STANDARD and also under very specific conditions which essentially don't exist like having it tightly fitted. I've literally never seen anyone wear one pulled tight and fitted. The graphic and the description both indicate that surgical masks are not designed for tight fitting.

So at least be realistic. The fact that they are measured at a lower standard should be enough proof.

And this disclaimer

"It is important to keep in mind that overall performance of any facepiece for particulate filtering depends, first, on good filter performance. A facepiece or mask that fits well to the face but has a poor filter will not be able to provide a high level of protection.​

...​

A recent laboratory study of five surgical masks with “good” filters found that 80–100% of subjects failed an OSHA-accepted qualitative fit test using Bitrex (a bitter tasting aerosol) and quantitative fit factors ranged from 4–8 (12–25% leakage) using a TSI Portacount.4 In contrast, the least protective type of respirator (negative pressure half mask) must have a fit factor (outside particle concentration divided by inside concentration) of at least 100 (1% leakage).​

 

[DadSmith]

Vaccine passport to work, buy, sell, trade, and travel. New options you can get a permanent stamp or microchip on/in your hand or forehead your choice. To simplify everything and prove you are vaccinated. For the greater good.

 

[Timjoebillybob]

As to your mention of conversation with a doctor, most patients don't say jack in a doctor's office and just smile and nod, then count on the pharmacy to do all of the things they should've done when they were at their appointment.

I will say that if I have a question about meds, I don't ask a MD, I ask a Pharmacist. Same as I wouldn't ask a Pharmacist what this rash was on my ..., I'd ask a MD . Now after the MD told me what it was, I would ask a Pharmacist what OTC would be best to treat said rash.

 

[mbills2223]

I will say that if I have a question about meds, I don't ask a MD, I ask a Pharmacist. Same as I wouldn't ask a Pharmacist what this rash was on my ..., I'd ask a MD . Now after the MD told me what it was, I would ask a Pharmacist what OTC would be best to treat said rash.

I appreciate that. When I refer to things they should've done in their office visit, it doesn't mean asking questions about meds. That's my job as you say. But if they have some objection to the doctors treatment plan, that to me is something they should've discussed in office.

Sadly... I do get shown rashes on a routine basis lol

 

[mbills2223]

YES 90% effective at a LOWER STANDARD and also under very specific conditions which essentially don't exist like having it tightly fitted. I've literally never seen anyone wear one pulled tight and fitted. The graphic and the description both indicate that surgical masks are not designed for tight fitting.

So at least be realistic. The fact that they are measured at a lower standard should be enough proof.

And this disclaimer

"It is important to keep in mind that overall performance of any facepiece for particulate filtering depends, first, on good filter performance. A facepiece or mask that fits well to the face but has a poor filter will not be able to provide a high level of protection.​

...​

A recent laboratory study of five surgical masks with “good” filters found that 80–100% of subjects failed an OSHA-accepted qualitative fit test using Bitrex (a bitter tasting aerosol) and quantitative fit factors ranged from 4–8 (12–25% leakage) using a TSI Portacount.4 In contrast, the least protective type of respirator (negative pressure half mask) must have a fit factor (outside particle concentration divided by inside concentration) of at least 100 (1% leakage).​

I'm sorry...but are you saying that because surgical masks don't filter as well as N95s, they don't work at all?

Of course they are measured at a lower standard. N95s by definition are required to filter at a given performance level.

My Toyota Camry isn't as fast as a Lambo, but it still drives.