Well holy crap...it's real.

[JetGirl]

JOC, how long has the government been asking those questions?

Exactly as long as they should NOT have, to date.

 

[Prometheus]

Well, I consider myself to be a constitutionalist but I disagree with the current government's implementation of the current decennial census.

Historically (Around the world, not in the US) censuses were used to tax or strip citizens of their property or force young adults into military service. This is one of the primary oppressive tools of a dictatorship.

The founding fathers attempted to set up our citizens with the ability to protect themselves by appointing an appropriate amount of representation per population.

HOWEVER, when the court of appeals ruled in 2001 to backup the Morales V. Daley case (which claimed that the current version of the census violates the 4th amendment) and the SCOTUS refused to revisit it basically the government made it formally illegal to denya potentially unemployed, sex offending degenerate temporary employeeyour personal information.

Just because the census was designed to be a tool of freedom for the citizen back int the 1700's doesn't mean it can't be/hasn't been twisted into (at worst) a tool of oppression.

+1

Interestingly enough, Joe Williams wins my once a year negative rep award for his multiple boneheaded responses and ignorance of the Constitution.

Don't take things so personally Joe. Just because you got to carry spiffy messenger bag for a few weeks doesn't mean were always talking about you when we talk about the idiots conducting unconstitutional portions of the census.

I was feeling pretty good about not having to deal with them... I was guessing the Gadsden Flag flying out front had spooked them.

 

[Joe Williams]

Exactly as long as they should NOT have, to date.

Some of them have been asked since the first Census, run by the people that fought for and founded this nation.

 

[Joe Williams]

+1

Interestingly enough, Joe Williams wins my once a year negative rep award for his multiple boneheaded responses and ignorance of the Constitution.

snip.

And right back at you. For your disrespect for the Constitution as written. Folks who only support the parts they like cannot be trusted to be loyal to ANY of it, IMHO.

 

[E5RANGER375]

And right back at you. For your disrespect for the Constitution as written. Folks who only support the parts they like cannot be trusted to be loyal to ANY of it, IMHO.

the constitution gives congress the power to CONDUCT a census, by the peramiters given. Show me where in the constitution or even the constitutional mandate that allows them to collect where people are employed or how much money they make, during a census? show me and i will bow down to you.

the point is that they will do whatever they can get away with. and they will always be able to find citizens they can pay, and brainwash into doing whatever they ask, and give them text book & rehersed responses to issue to the masses when we start asking anoying questions and start expossing them for what they are.

 

[JetGirl]

Joe, it's nobody's business what the relationships are between the people under a roof, what their races are, or whether that dwelling was rented or owned - just to name a few.
If you want to spill your guts to somebody about your last trip to the bathroom or what your favorite flavor of Jello is, that's YOUR bidnezz...but intrusive questions are NOT mandated. Enumeration means determining the number of something by counting. And that's all it means.

 

[IndySSD]

JOC, how long has the government been asking those questions?

I know that in 2000 they only had 8 questions, not sure about the total evolution of the census form but I know they gather more information than just what's on the form....

Take a look at this excerpt list of information gathered on individuals based on the 1990 form from the census.gov website.

In addition, the file contains 100-percent counts and
unweighted sample counts for total persons and total housing units. Other
population and housing items are listed below. Please see the List of
Tables chapter for a complete listing.
Population items include:
Age
Ancestry
Citizenship
Class of worker
Educational attainment
Employment status
Family type
Farm and nonfarm population
Foreign-born status
Group quarters
Hispanic origin
Household type and relationship
Income in 1989
Industry
Language spoken at home
Marital status
Means of transportation to work
Mobility limitation status
Occupation
Place of birth
Place of work
Poverty status in 1989
Private vehicle occupancy
Race
Residence in 1985
School enrollment
Self-care limitation status
Sex
Travel time to work
Urban and rural population
Veteran/military status
Work disability status
Work status in 1989
Workers in family in 1989
Housing items include:
Age of householder
Bedrooms
Condominium status
Farm and nonfarm housing
Heating fuel
Hispanic origin of householder
Housing units
Kitchen facilities
Meals included in rent
Mortgage status
Occupancy status
Plumbing facilities
Race of householder
Rent
Rooms
Selected monthly owner costs
Sewage disposal
Telephone availability
Tenure
Units in structure
Urban and rural housing
Utilities in rent
Value of housing unit
Vehicles available
Water source
Year householder moved into unit
Year structure built

 

[Joe Williams]

the constitution gives congress the power to CONDUCT a census, by the peramiters given. snip.

Quote for me, if you would, the parameters you imagine to be there. Directly from the Constitution, if you please. All I can find is "in such Manner as they shall by Law direct"

 

[Joe Williams]

Take a look at this excerpt list of information gathered on individuals based on the 1990 form from the census.gov website.

You sure those questions you quoted are from the Census form, and not from another study Congress tasked the Census Bureau to conduct?

 

[IndySSD]

You sure those questions you quoted are from the Census form, and not from another study Congress tasked the Census Bureau to conduct?

Joe, I'm getting tired of the "Burden of Proof" you're trying to lay on my shoulders.

How bout you provide some constitutional excerpts that show the govt. needs to keep track of all these things listed?

Oh and yeah, I'm sure it came from the census website. Stop trying to force people to prove that they are collecting unnecessary information and start showing us the constitutional writ declaring all of this as necessary information for Congress to carry out the census as it was designed in Section 2 clause 3

to determine state representation in congress.

Now if you REALLY WANT TO DIG into how FDUP the census is, tell me why we INCLUDE illegal immigrants.


From Wikipedia:

The Constitution mandates that a Census be conducted every ten years to determine the populations of the States, and this clause provided for a temporary apportionment of seats until the first Census could be conducted. The population of a state originally included (for congressional apportionment purposes) all "free persons", three-fifths of "other persons" (i.e., slaves) and excluded untaxed Native Americans. Presently, the Census counts illegal immigrants, and Census figures are used to determine congressional seats. The three-fifths arrangement was a compromise between the slave-holding states like South Carolina and Virginia, which wanted slaves to count as equal to free persons (including both the majority white population and thousands of free blacks living in both Northern and Southern states) in order to increase their voting strength in Congress and non-slave holding states like Massachusetts and New York which did not want slaves to count for congressional apportionment at all. This compromise had the effect of increasing the political power of slave-holding states by increasing their share of seats in the House of Representatives (see Three-fifths compromise), and consequently their share in the Electoral College (where a state's influence over the election of the President is tied to the size of its congressional delegation). Following the Civil War, the Thirteenth and Fourteenth Amendments changed this arrangement by (respectively) abolishing slavery, and superseding the three-fifths clause by requiring that a state's population for apportionment purposes was to be determined by "counting the whole number of Persons" in the state, "excluding Indians not taxed." Since there are at present no such untaxed Native Americans (Indians),[36] all persons inhabiting a state — whether citizens or not — count towards the population of that state in determining the state's congressional apportionment.

Oh and yeah, I'm sure the list I posted is from the Census.gov website.

http://www.factfinder.census.gov/metadoc/1990stf3td.pdf

 

[Joe Williams]

Joe, I'm getting tired of the "Burden of Proof" you're trying to lay on my shoulders.

How bout you provide some constitutional excerpts that show the govt. needs to keep track of all these things listed?

Oh and yeah, I'm sure it came from the census website. snip

Coming from the Census website doesn't mean it was the actual Census. The Census Bureau is tasked by Congress to conduct numerous other studies, and the one you linked, claiming it to be the Census, doesn't appear to actually be what you said it is. Sorry if asking you to back your claims is burdensome.

And I have already provided Congress' Constitutional authority. The enumeration shall be conducted in such a manner as Congress shall decide by law. If they decide, by law, that knowing the length of your pinky toe is somehow necessary, they have such authority unless a court says otherwise.

Speaking of courts, I'm wondering how those lawsuits you folks have filed are going? Ya'll keep yiping about the government exceeding it's Constitutional authority, so you have a DUTY, as American citizens to fight such wrongdoing. The courts are the appropriate weapon for doing so. After all, I know you've already contacted your Congressional reps, and failed to get this perceived wrongdoing corrected, so that leaves only the courts. I'm quite certain that such fine, upstanding citizens who feel so strongly about this matter are not failing to do their duties. Right?

BTW, as for illegal immigrants, you will need to look to the courts (again,) and their interpretation of how the Fourteenth Amendment applies to them.

 

[JetGirl]

The enumeration shall be conducted in such a manner as Congress shall decide by law. If they decide, by law, that knowing the length of your pinky toe is somehow necessary, they have such authority unless a court says otherwise.

This is what I think trips people up in the logic department.
The "manner" conducted does NOT = the "content" collected.
It gives leeway as to HOW to conduct a count...not as to what info (unrelated to numbers of bodies) to collect.

 

[Walter Zoomie]

Don't take things so personally Joe. Just because you got to carry spiffy messenger bag for a few weeks doesn't mean were always talking about you when we talk about the idiots conducting unconstitutional portions of the census.

Big Joe was a census taker?? No wonder. Bwahahahahahahahahahaha!

 

[Bendrx]

I think the point is, if you give me permission to count the total number of items in your home, and I come along count them, log each one by name, it's volume, it's weight, value, location and age, you WOULD then have reason to be upset. Now this list could be used in case of a robbery, would be easy to hand to the insurance company. But, it could also be used to know who to rob and of what items they want. Knowledge is power, and it's simply making it easier for the gov to create and control more power.

 

[Joe Williams]

Big Joe was a census taker?? No wonder. Bwahahahahahahahahahaha!

Census worker
Army veteran
Air Force veteran.

I've chosen to serve this nation in multiple ways. No doubt, a great source of amusement to you.

 

[E5RANGER375]

lee harvey oswald was a veteran too. so was tim mcvey. just because someones a vet doesnt mean they wont fall for anything.

no one assaulted your military service. and dont try to claim you served as a census worker for anything more than a paycheck. nothing to be ashamed about, but dont try to BS us.

 

[Joe Williams]

lee harvey oswald was a veteran too. so was tim mcvey. just because someones a vet doesnt mean they wont fall for anything.

no one assaulted your military service. and dont try to claim you served as a census worker for anything more than a paycheck. nothing to be ashamed about, but dont try to BS us.

Collected my paycheck every two weeks in the mlitary, as well. Didn't you? Would you have served on a truly volunteer basis?

 

[IndySSD]

Coming from the Census website doesn't mean it was the actual Census. The Census Bureau is tasked by Congress to conduct numerous other studies, and the one you linked, claiming it to be the Census, doesn't appear to actually be what you said it is. Sorry if asking you to back your claims is burdensome.

And I have already provided Congress' Constitutional authority. The enumeration shall be conducted in such a manner as Congress shall decide by law. If they decide, by law, that knowing the length of your pinky toe is somehow necessary, they have such authority unless a court says otherwise.

Speaking of courts, I'm wondering how those lawsuits you folks have filed are going? Ya'll keep yiping about the government exceeding it's Constitutional authority, so you have a DUTY, as American citizens to fight such wrongdoing. The courts are the appropriate weapon for doing so. After all, I know you've already contacted your Congressional reps, and failed to get this perceived wrongdoing corrected, so that leaves only the courts. I'm quite certain that such fine, upstanding citizens who feel so strongly about this matter are not failing to do their duties. Right?

BTW, as for illegal immigrants, you will need to look to the courts (again,) and their interpretation of how the Fourteenth Amendment applies to them.

You are without a doubt politically minded, you snip and spin every post to fit your agenda.

And yes, I actually have written several letters to lawmakers, both national and local and have posted about at least one of them here on this website.

I'm done, we'll have to agree to disagree.

Take your holier than thou attitude elsewhere.

 

[malern28us]

lee harvey oswald was a veteran too. so was tim mcvey. just because someones a vet doesnt mean they wont fall for anything.

no one assaulted your military service. and dont try to claim you served as a census worker for anything more than a paycheck. nothing to be ashamed about, but dont try to BS us.

Dont forget Charles Whitman!! I learned so much from watching Full Metal Jacket!

 

[E5RANGER375]

Collected my paycheck every two weeks in the mlitary, as well. Didn't you? Would you have served on a truly volunteer basis?

sure back then i would have volunteered for free, i didnt have a family except for the Army.
the pay was just for beer and strippers back then anyways (and tattoos). they even put it right in the federal credit union for me. some strippers will take plastic

when i talked about pay, i was reffering to your census work. once again, no one was attacking your military service.
nothing to be ashamed about for getting paid for services rendered. everyone needs money, its the world we have been forced into.