Trump 2024 ???

[jamil]

I was sweating my butt off, installing a new fence line today…I wouldn’t have said “no” to some help.

DD thinking, whew! Escaped that one.

 

[KG1]

Full Clown world is the end of enlightenment principles. Nothing short of an America-first candidate can even slow the progression towards clown world. So my first preference is not-clown-world. Even if that means another 4 years of Trump. There is nothing Trump did during his 1st term that's holds a candle to Biden's clown world policies. I'm including 1/6. I kinda think you consume too much left wing media. What Trump tried to do with Pence is bad. We were never in any danger of that playing out, even if Pence went along with it. No one else would have.


There's a lot of overlap here with my own thinking but I think I have a more moderate view than you might. I don't understand some of the things on the list.

Oversight of government: You mean like trying to hold government agencies accountable for punishing people they disagree with? You don't like that?

Commercial markets: I think the America-first faction of the Republican party does not have the same laissez-faire view of commercial markets as the chamber-o-commerce Republicans.

Immigration: As an understatement, clearly this is an example of where the right thing to do is somewhere between the extremes. No borders is one extreme, allowing all to come in unchecked. On the other extreme is locking the country down for any entry. So which extreme is closest to the policy enacted by either the last administration and the current? I think an honest answer would be the current administration. There's almost no border now. At no point during the previous administration was the opposite extreme suggested or practiced.

Abortion: I think it's a state's issue to solve. I've posted extensively on INGO that the morality of it hinges on whether you believe a right to life exists before birth. The left doesn't believe so. The right does. Federalism is probably the only way to solve that. But knowing the Right, they've won that battle. They won't take the win and leave it up to states. They'll go for a national ban.

Policing: this one seems simple. Cities where progressivism has no checks or balances are literally **** holes. Defund the police is retarded. We clearly need law enforcement, not more counselors clown world brain-washers. We clearly need prosecutors that prosecute crime. We don't need several police mechanisms like qualified immunity at least in its current form. We don't need civil forfeiture. We need more accountability. We also need some intellectual honesty on the left in terms of actual racism vs perceived racism among police. For example, Chauvin used excessive force on George Floyd. There is no evidence presented at trial that it had anything to do with race.

Personal privacy: Again, this is something I think the America-first wing of the RNC has a better grasp than Democrats or chamber-o-commerce Republicans.

Personal Autonomy: Wut? I think most America-first type conservatives would say, as consenting adults you get to pretty much do what you want unless it harms someone innocent. There are still a few duds that want to lock you up forever for MJ, while they sip their bourbon.

Culture war: it is what it is. It's a fight for clown world or status quo. Which do you want? I'm afraid that's a binary choice in its current form.


I'm disappointed you didn't put clown world.


This is a trigger phrase. It is the phrase Paul Helmke used in his campaign for Mayor of Fort Wayne back in the day. I still remember it. Haunting words indeed. It means nothing.

But anyway, you're not gonna get any of that. You're gonna get either clown world or some form of America-first (because I think at this point chamber-o-commerce stamped Republicans are too out of favor with the party, and "R" printed on anything is poison to almost everyone left of center. The Fat ass pussbag, for example, is not winning any primaries.


You won't. I'm not a fan of Trump, but I think your image of him doesn't really reflect the truest reality. But he's definitely not gonna be favorable to any Clown World policies.

I'm still on the first paragraph but so far, it's good.

 

[Ingomike]

Currently, my number one issue is Trump. After Jan 6 I see Trump as a traitor...full stop. If he’s on the ticket I pull the lever for who ever stands in his way…even if that means giving you “clown world”. I’m really sorry voting against Trump has these effects, I’d rather have an option that wasn’t Trump or Clown World.

Do you even know what traitor means? Doesn’t seem like it. Does the way you interpret it include lying to FISA court?

 

[Ingomike]

I disagree strongly with the right on:
Effective oversight of the government and of commercial markets, immigration, abortion, policing and prisons, personal privacy, personal autonomy, the culture war, the endless real wars, and taxing and spending.

What do you perceive the right voters want to do to commercial markets? Most I know want markets free of government interference.

You apparently are good with open borders. The right wants secure borders, well vetted immigrants, with the abilities to contribute to the country.

Most on the right believe killing human life is wrong, but most support limited abortion.

Wow! You do not believe criminals should be policed and locked up for their crimes.

The right seems to be the only ones trying to protect personal autonomy by holding back big .gov and big tech.

The right started a culture war? Another wow.

Agreed, the uniparty loves them some wars and spending, only one side has anyone that even gives lip service to debt.

Kinda out there on your understanding of America first and the supporters goals, more like the caricature the media creates not reality…

 

[Ingomike]

I disagree strongly with the left on:
Guns, identity politics, personal privacy, personal responsibility, the culture war, the endless real wars, and taxing and spending.

Agreed…

 

[jamil]

I'm still on the first paragraph but so far, it's good.

Damn that was long. I wrote all that?

 

[KG1]

Damn that was long. I wrote all that?

When are you going to come out with a movie adaptation of the book?

 

[jamil]

Do you even know what traitor means? Doesn’t seem like it. Does the way you interpret it include lying to FISA court?

If he thinks 1/6 was a coup d’etat then yeah, seizing control of the government from the elected President would be treason.

I would argue the misused word is not “treason”, but instead challenge the idea that it was actually a coup d’etat at all.

 

[jamil]

The right seems to be the only ones trying to protect personal autonomy by holding back big .gov and big tech.

I thought the personal autonomy related more to what people want to do with their own bodies. Legalizing recreational drugs, sex change, who they want to marry, even abortion, all fit into that category. I have a more libertarian viewpoint on that. As long as it isn’t harming innocent people you do you, but don’t expect or force my approval.

 

[LeftyGunner]

What do you perceive the right voters want to do to commercial markets? Most I know want markets free of government interference.

The ”Free Market“ is more of an ideal than an attainable human institution. Markets work best when everyone understands how they are intended to function, and participate in them sincerely and fully-informed.

My view of 100% ”hand-off” market is probably similar your view of a 100% “open” border…it is more than just a bad idea, it is an unworkable one.

That provides a decent segue for your next point:

You apparently are good with open borders. The right wants secure borders, well vetted immigrants, with the abilities to contribute to the country.

No, not fully open borders…but probably much more open than your comfort level allows for.

Immigrants make America great. If you really want to Make America Great Again we need more immigrants.

Most on the right believe killing human life is wrong, but most support limited abortion.

I won’t try to speak for anyone else on this point.

Murder is wrong. Abortion isn’t murder. That is my view on abortion in full.

Wow! You do not believe criminals should be policed and locked up for their crimes.

Not even close, Mike, and I doubt your sincerity when making this point, but I’ll address it.

I think our Criminal Justice System is overused and unnecessarily violent.

It is my opinion that profit motivations are antithetical to the impartiality of courts and to humane prisoner treatment.

The right seems to be the only ones trying to protect personal autonomy by holding back big .gov and big tech.

I disagree.

The right is perfectly fine using the force of government authority to violate personal autonomy when it suits them…the achingly obvious example is abortion, but a more subtle and timely one is banning books. That’s a right-wing thing,

The right started a culture war? Another wow.

The right is every bit as guilty as the left in engaging in culture war nonsense.

It doesn’t resonate with me at all.

Agreed, the uniparty loves them some wars and spending, only one side has anyone that even gives lip service to debt.

Kinda out there on your understanding of America first and the supporters goals, more like the caricature the media creates not reality…

Its a matter of experience and perspective. I see things differently from you because I have lived a much different life than you.

 

[Ziggidy]

If he’s on the ticket I pull the lever for who ever stands in his way…even if that means giving you “clown world”.

You would allow your burden to destroy America?

 

[BugI02]

Currently, my number one issue is Trump. After Jan 6 I see Trump as a traitor...full stop. If he’s on the ticket I pull the lever for who ever stands in his way…even if that means giving you “clown world”. I’m really sorry voting against Trump has these effects, I’d rather have an option that wasn’t Trump or Clown World.

You do. His name is RFKjr

Something tells me that won't satisfy you, though

 

[BugI02]

Damn that was long. I wrote all that?

chatJPT?

Were you even online when those posts were crafted?

 

[BugI02]

When are you going to come out with a movie adaptation of the book? [the video]

Fixy

 

[jamil]

No, not fully open borders…but probably much more open than your comfort level allows for.

Immigrants make America great. If you really want to Make America Great Again we need more immigrants.

I don’t think you’ll find many America-first people who think we should shut down immigration. We say shut down *illegal* immigration. I want a sane immigration policy though. It should be streamlined. There should be a vetting process. Part of that should be a background check, what they have to offer, etcetera. Also, we shouldn’t rely on h1b visas to staff jobs. We should recruit Americans to be trained for those jobs. But that has nothing to do with permanent immigration. So if they have those skills and want to become Americans, and they’re ot criminals, c’mon over. Welcome.

 

[PRasko]

RFK is not your friend. No politician is. But RFK will be another biden when it comes to gun ownership.

 

[KG1]

 

[jamil]

banning books. That’s a right-wing thing,

No one’s banning books. That’s a straw monster created by ClownWorld™. Sane states are creating laws that make books age appropriate in schools, and tells schools they can’t indoctrinate students with ClownWorld™ nonsense.

 

[LeftyGunner]

You do. His name is RFKjr

Something tells me that won't satisfy you, though

I don’t know enough about RFK jr to have even a basic conversation about him. Is he trying to primary Biden? I have been his name thrown around here, and I have seen a couple of interview snippets on the internet but, honestly I don’t have an opinion about him at all.

I’ll check him out on YouTube and try to get to more informed ground before we shout at each other some more.

 

[jamil]

In case we need to be reminded of the ClownWorld™ nonsense that's prohibited by these laws, no more books in elementary libraries depicting boys performing oral sex on boys, instructions for how to eat *****, prevents teachers from gaslighting students to start thinking they're trans, teaching CRT concepts like people of color can't be racist, or that white people can't not be racist. That kind of thing.