To Mask or Not to Mask?

[Hatin Since 87]

If you assume that none of those other business problems would happen by letting the virus run rampant.

Isn’t everything here “assuming”? You’re “assuming” if everyone wears a mask it’ll magically kill it. I’ve seen another “assume” I don’t care about children dying if I don’t wear a mask. This entire thread is based on assumption.

 

[DoggyDaddy]

If you assume that none of those other business problems would happen by letting the virus run rampant.

I'll go so far as to say it's an assertion, not an assumption.

[video=youtube;87-WlhWwLBo]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=87-WlhWwLBo[/video]

 

[foszoe]

That last sentence. What makes you think that is their thinking?

Reading forum posts

 

[BugI02]

Isn’t everything here “assuming”? You’re “assuming” if everyone wears a mask it’ll magically kill it. I’ve seen another “assume” I don’t care about children dying if I don’t wear a mask. This entire thread is based on assumption.

I don't think that's until 15 Aug this year

 

[Hatin Since 87]

I don't think that's until 15 Aug this year

Lol ok what am I missing?

 

[Snapdragon]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assumption_of_Mary

 

[BugI02]

Lol ok what am I missing?

Assumption Day is celebrated on or around August 15 in many countries, particularly in parts of Europe and South America. It is also called the Assumption of the Blessed Virgin Mary, the Dormition of the Most Holy Mother of God (in the eastern countries), or the Feast of the Assumption.

*.*

 

[Hatin Since 87]

Lol, y’all are too smart for me. I honestly had no idea. I’m a baptist, dated a catholic years ago. She was.... um... “fun”.

Thanks for the info! Learn something every day on ingo

 

[KMaC]

Retailer Asso wants statewide mask requirement. https://fox59.com/news/coronavirus/some-retailers-call-for-statewide-mask-mandates/
Did Governor's Office ask them to petition for a mask mandate cause he doesn't want to take the heat?
Real concern for your well being or just trying to level the playing field?
Is this like the smoking ban where Marion Co bans smoking and bar owners want surrounding counties to follow suit because their customers are going out of county?
So many questions.
Asso rep says the statewide mandate would provide clear direction (eliminate any choice) because differing county requirements is just too confusing fo us rube hoosher hicks.

 

[jamil]

Reading forum posts

“Ignore” is the problem word here that I’m objecting to. I did not take it that there is a general attitude of advocating that we ignore it. Saying that we should not have shut things down and issued stay at home orders does not reach the level of wanting to ignore it. That’s a hyperbolic representation. If you guys want to have an honest conversation, then think about what you’re accusing.

 

[jamil]

Then why do we have a thread on businesses destroyed by the shutdowns? It appears to be an assumption that they would function at reasonable profitability in the face of NO shutdowns, which I would say is not necessarily a well thought out assumption

This is an example of what I was talking about in that long post. You’re saying they’re saying that it’s zero, while asserting yourself that it’s all. A reasonable belief about how much impact not shutting everything down would have had would be that it would have had some impact. Perhaps even a lot of impact. But you’re asserting in a sort of guarded way, by saying “you don’t know if it wouldn’t have had the same impact,” that it would have had the same. I don’t think people are saying it would have had zero impact. And I don’t think they’re advocating that we should have done nothing. The all or nothing accusations makes me think you’re frustrated because you can’t get them to see your reason. And you can’t. And you can’t see theirs either. This is how these kinds of conversations eventually infuse a lack of thought into understanding the other. Frustration on both sides make you resolve that they’re saying things they aren’t saying.

I’ve been involved in these coronavirus threads since it started. I’ve argued various points with the same people. I’ve agreed with some of the points they make as well. With some exceptions of a very few people suggesting that it’s all a hoax or whatever, no one has said that we should all just just ignore it. In fact, Doc came the closest to representing the majority position here, which is essentially, live your life. If you’re vulnerable stay isolated. If you have it. Stay isolated. That’s not representative of my own thoughts. But it pretty succinctly represents theirs from the various points they’ve raised. That’s not ignoring it. It’s another policy suggestion. If you disagree with that, stop arguing against ignoring it. Argue with that. And also don’t take it that they don’t care as much as you do.

Let me ask you this: if you were able to get them to understand every point you’re making exactly the way you understand it, and they still disagree with you, is that okay, and would that make you think they don’t care?

 

[jamil]

https://youtu.be/GbfiqxDgOZ0

Turns out I was right about Fauci and masks. I’ve said since his statement about masks back in March that he lied to the public to get them to stop buying up the masks. He admits it to congress. That mother****er is just too willing to manipulate circumstances. A ****ing schemer. He believed then that people wearing masks would retard the spread but lied to us and said they wouldn’t.

That said, when you’re out and about and find yourself in close proximity to people, maybe consider wearing a mask. I’ll probably start wearing one more often. I think I want a new one. Something that makes a political statement. Maybe an image of the commie fist modified to be a middle finger back at them.

 

[SheepDog4Life]

https://youtu.be/GbfiqxDgOZ0

Turns out I was right about Fauci and masks. I’ve said since his statement about masks back in March that he lied to the public to get them to stop buying up the masks. He admits it to congress. That mother****er is just too willing to manipulate circumstances. A ****ing schemer. He believed then that people wearing masks would retard the spread but lied to us and said they wouldn’t.

That said, when you’re out and about and find yourself in close proximity to people, maybe consider wearing a mask. I’ll probably start wearing one more often. I think I want a new one. Something that makes a political statement. Maybe an image of the commie fist modified to be a middle finger back at them.

This plus 100!

It's the common problem these days... when people and institutions that should be in the position of public trust lie, mislead and/or omit important facts in order mislead the public, they show themselves to be lying liars who lie.

Some story from an old dead white guy about a boy, a wolf and credibility immediately comes to this boomer's mind...

 

[dusty88]

This is an example of what I was talking about in that long post. You’re saying they’re saying that it’s zero, while asserting yourself that it’s all. A reasonable belief about how much impact not shutting everything down would have had would be that it would have had some impact. Perhaps even a lot of impact. But you’re asserting in a sort of guarded way, by saying “you don’t know if it wouldn’t have had the same impact,” that it would have had the same. I don’t think people are saying it would have had zero impact. And I don’t think they’re advocating that we should have done nothing. The all or nothing accusations makes me think you’re frustrated because you can’t get them to see your reason. And you can’t. And you can’t see theirs either. This is how these kinds of conversations eventually infuse a lack of thought into understanding the other. Frustration on both sides make you resolve that they’re saying things they aren’t saying.

I’ve been involved in these coronavirus threads since it started. I’ve argued various points with the same people. I’ve agreed with some of the points they make as well. With some exceptions of a very few people suggesting that it’s all a hoax or whatever, no one has said that we should all just just ignore it. In fact, Doc came the closest to representing the majority position here, which is essentially, live your life. If you’re vulnerable stay isolated. If you have it. Stay isolated. That’s not representative of my own thoughts. But it pretty succinctly represents theirs from the various points they’ve raised. That’s not ignoring it. It’s another policy suggestion. If you disagree with that, stop arguing against ignoring it. Argue with that. And also don’t take it that they don’t care as much as you do.

Let me ask you this: if you were able to get them to understand every point you’re making exactly the way you understand it, and they still disagree with you, is that okay, and would that make you think they don’t care?

Thank you. I see your point that when arguments continue it begins to look like both sides are arguing a strawman (the extreme view rather than the differences).
To be clear, my position on economic effects is that we would have significant ones from a pandemic regardless of what the government did and we'll never be able to fully separate the effects of the two.


Also to clarify : I don't think the problem is most people "not caring". What I see are the same people who had the position in March that this was "like the flu" continue to take every position that supports that original position. That's cognitive dissonance. I know I've participated in cognitive dissonance before in other issues. I try to check myself when I see signs of it, but I'm sure I still do it on some level.

When it comes to "we should isolate the vulnerable" I have seen few with that position who modify it when faced with realities. FWIW, my husband was one who has modified from that position and it's not like he's easily swayed by me. (we disagree on plenty of things ).
He saw that idea falls flat when you have high community transmission, and anyone who is paying attention should be able to see that by now. When you have high transmission the virus easily creeps into all healthcare settings which is exactly where the vulnerable have to go frequently. The protection of healthcare settings and group homes becomes further impossible because those same areas run behind on test results. How does someone answer that problem and still hold the position that "people who are worried should just stay home"?

Also, in spite of conversations here the past few days, I've gained no empathy into the viewpoint of refusal to wear masks. If it helps even a small %, it helps keep the economy open. So it's counterproductive to refuse. If it's the "we have to resist government force" at least pick something useful. Maybe my perspective here is colored by the way I live life. I've participated in high risk sports but have always felt I can do so while taking precautions. And as a woman, maybe those are more comfortable than it is for men? When full-face skydiving helmets first became a thing (prior to that it was just leather hats, or no helmets at all) I was the first to get one in this area and got some sideways looks for it. Same with snow skiing: I was the first in my group to put on a helmet. Anyway, I'm trying to understand this mentality and still haven't seen a good enough explanation that justifies not making an attempt to contribute to reducing disease transmission.

This article in the Atlantic discusses cognitive dissonance in regards to the pandemic. https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/07/role-cognitive-dissonance-pandemic/614074/

If I recall correctly, many people here blamed the Democrat governors for their more extreme stances with shutdowns earlier in the pandemic. What do those people think now that Abbott in Texas closed bars and put out a statewide mask mandate? Unfortunately I can't remember everyone's positions with enough certainty but if there is a volunteer who had that political view I would really like to hear what their new perspective is.

 

[churchmouse]

Then why do we have a thread on businesses destroyed by the shutdowns? It appears to be an assumption that they would function at reasonable profitability in the face of NO shutdowns, which I would say is not necessarily a well thought out assumption

Man this is getting a bit twisted.

I know that personally my business is absolutely dead in the water thank you very much. We had projects set up out to this month and they all canceled when the idiots shut down the world for what...????

We are dead. NADA. I am pissed. My help is pissed. And for what. Show me the bodies. Show me the terribly effected children. Show me the non-manipulated statistics. Show Fauci the door with a big boot in his tiny little ass.

 

[dusty88]

Man this is getting a bit twisted.

I know that personally my business is absolutely dead in the water thank you very much. We had projects set up out to this month and they all canceled when the idiots shut down the world for what...????

We are dead. NADA. I am pissed. My help is pissed. And for what. Show me the bodies. Show me the terribly effected children. Show me the non-manipulated statistics. Show Fauci the door with a big boot in his tiny little ass.

I don't know the specifics of your situation and you have every right to be angry.

I did not mean to imply businesses are not suffering.

My point was (rather) that a pandemic itself is going to be a big contributor to economic problems without shutdowns. It's not all the fault of the government mitigation actions.

 

[ghuns]

...I think I want a new one. Something that makes a political statement...

A political statement?

You could always go this route...

It's likely within a few percentage points of effectiveness as the homemade cloth ones anyways, Kemosabe.

Oh, better yet, and far more political...

Put a little HEPA filter on the inside and will probably outperform the cloth masks the local Karens are sewing.

 

[two70]

My point was (rather) that a pandemic itself is going to be a big contributor to economic problems without shutdowns. It's not all the fault of the government mitigation actions.

No, it's certainly not all the fault of the government response, I'd argue that the media encouraged panic for political gain had as great or greater role in the economic problems than the actual government response in most cases, especially here in Indiana. Economic disruptions caused by the actual pandemic are a distant third in my opinion.


On another note this song seems apropos...
[video=youtube;gtAK1xCZ_8I]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gtAK1xCZ_8I[/video]

 

[jamil]

A political statement?

You could always go this route...

It's likely within a few percentage points of effectiveness as the homemade cloth ones anyways, Kemosabe.

Oh, better yet, and far more political...

Put a little HEPA filter on the inside and will probably outperform the cloth masks the local Karens are sewing.

Not sure why. But that first one is very appealing. I want to wear that mask in public.

 

[ghuns]

Not sure why. But that first one is very appealing. I want to wear that mask in public.

I do too. And in my younger days, I would have done it.

But middle aged, financially secure, gun carrying, me has decided it's best NOT to provoke confrontation.