To Mask or Not to Mask?

[BugI02]

So what you're suggesting then...everyone should always wear a mask, even when/if the CV-19 thing is conquered? (Because if it's not that virus, it could be the next plague that they're talking about bubbling up in China now, or something from somewhere else, or just the regular old flu).

Janus speaks from the side of reasonableness or alarmism, past or future, as needed to maintain righteousness in his own mind

 

[foszoe]

Maybe this is a decent example.

If you are walking in your yard, why would you wear a mask? I wouldn't.
If you go to a hospital and had to walk down a hallway known to filled with dying COVID patients and were offered a mask would you wear it?

To me that is a similar choice as carrying a weapon. Maybe you don't in your back yard, but if you had to walk through an area known to be inhabited by a violent criminal element, you probably would at least think twice.

The difference in the stark examples is meant to illustrate that it is not all black (all clear) and white (death is certain). However, each of us has to choose how much grey (risk) we are comfortable with.

If someone else arrives at a different risk tolerance, fine. If a private entity chooses to enforce a mask policy fine. the interesting part, for me, is if one person chooses to go to, say, Costco and shop BECAUSE Costco requires masks, then they have a reasonable expectation that everyone else is wearing a mask and that makes them feel safe. That should mean a reasonable person who takes off their mask should expect something to be said to them. So I would side with the mask wearer.

If shopping at a place that has a recommendation or no comment regarding masks, then a reasonable person should not expect everyone to be wearing masks.

If the government enforces a mask policy, well I may not like it, but I believe they are within their mandate to do so. Health departments get lots of leeway.

OK.

 

[BugI02]

I was just thinking that thought when read this.


We have whole INGO subsections devoted to survival, risk aversion, self defense... but suddenly putting on a cloth mask to avoid a disease is stupid.

We've let ourselves trick ourselves into thinking that putting on a mask is some sort act of subservience.


It seems to me we've let that perception and fear of tyranny trump logical risk aversion.
Maybe liberals aren't the only ones to operate on feelings.

The problem is not with your decisions relating to risk aversion, but those decisions are yours

The problem comes about when an effort is made to coerce anyone else, who chooses differently, to comply with your decisions to make you feel better/safer

Accept that others may not choose as you do, and in fact may feel you have chosen unwisely. They are just as free to do so

The only person's actions that you can fully control are your own

 

[JettaKnight]

The problem is not with your decisions relating to risk aversion, but those decisions are yours

The problem comes about when an effort is made to coerce anyone else, who chooses differently, to comply with your decisions to make you feel better/safer

Accept that others may not choose as you do, and in fact may feel you have chosen unwisely. They are just as free to do so

The only person's actions that you can fully control are your own

Nah, the problem is we've decided coercion is the evil govt. saying, "Hey, here's all these experts and mountains of data saying wearing a mask in public is essential, please, do it. no seriously, you should do it. It's really not that hard." (for most Hoosiers it's not mandatory)


Hell no! I won't be coerced! I'm going to come up with some obscure "study" about oxygen deprivation, and I'm say it ineffective because some idiot wears it on his chin, or make a claim that it's an Illuminati plot...


At be honest and say, "No, I just don't like wearing a mask, so I won't; I don't see the point", instead of pretending your some sort of modern day Paul Revere, or acting like wearing masks is modern form of medieval blood-letting, but you know the truth that it's dangerous and wrong.

 

[churchmouse]

I carry that by choice. When I choose and how I choose. Big difference.

"Huge Difference. Huge"
Not even close.

 

[bwframe]

Monroe County Health official: Local face mask requirements likely

Monroe County is printing these and making them available for free to local businesses.

 

[bwframe]

Anyone know if Morgan County is going this same direction?

I'm happy to take my money to Martinsville, if it's still a free county.

 

[churchmouse]

Anyone know if Morgan County is going this same direction?

I'm happy to take my money to Martinsville, if it's still a free county.

We were in Moorseville this morning stopped at a few places. No mask requirements.

Screw Hognuts.
Screw Marion Co.

Convince me how bad this is. Please.

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

Maybe this is a decent example.

If you are walking in your yard, why would you wear a mask? I wouldn't.
If you go to a hospital and had to walk down a hallway known to filled with dying COVID patients and were offered a mask would you wear it?

To me that is a similar choice as carrying a weapon. Maybe you don't in your back yard, but if you had to walk through an area known to be inhabited by a violent criminal element, you probably would at least think twice.

The difference in the stark examples is meant to illustrate that it is not all black (all clear) and white (death is certain). However, each of us has to choose how much grey (risk) we are comfortable with.

If someone else arrives at a different risk tolerance, fine. If a private entity chooses to enforce a mask policy fine. the interesting part, for me, is if one person chooses to go to, say, Costco and shop BECAUSE Costco requires masks, then they have a reasonable expectation that everyone else is wearing a mask and that makes them feel safe. That should mean a reasonable person who takes off their mask should expect something to be said to them. So I would side with the mask wearer.

If shopping at a place that has a recommendation or no comment regarding masks, then a reasonable person should not expect everyone to be wearing masks.

If the government enforces a mask policy, well I may not like it, but I believe they are within their mandate to do so. Health departments get lots of leeway.

We're talking past each other, I think.

But that's ok. I really don't know how to make my point any clearer without repeating everything again. I think I've used up all the energy I care for on this topic anyway. Have a good one.

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

Monroe County Health official: Local face mask requirements likely

Monroe County is printing these and making them available for free to local businesses.

That's OK. As long as Casa Brava and El Compadre's is open and willing to take my money, I don't care if I step foot in Bloomington again for a long time, personally.

 

[jkaetz]

Nah, the problem is we've decided coercion is the evil govt. saying, "Hey, here's all these experts and mountains of data saying wearing a mask in public is essential, please, do it. no seriously, you should do it. It's really not that hard." (for most Hoosiers it's not mandatory)


Hell no! I won't be coerced! I'm going to come up with some obscure "study" about oxygen deprivation, and I'm say it ineffective because some idiot wears it on his chin, or make a claim that it's an Illuminati plot...


At be honest and say, "No, I just don't like wearing a mask, so I won't; I don't see the point", instead of pretending your some sort of modern day Paul Revere, or acting like wearing masks is modern form of medieval blood-letting, but you know the truth that it's dangerous and wrong.

I don't think anyone is in the "I don't want to." camp but rather the "I'm not sick." camp. The refusal is to believe that a mask must be worn to protect against the unknown or that wearing a mask will make COVID or any other illness go away. As someone suggested above, if we're wearing masks because "we might be sick and not know it" then we should always wear masks forever. I doubt anyone would think that is reasonable. Someone is sick, stay home. Someone is sick and absolutely must go out, wear a mask. Someone who hasn't been sick for months and little contact with people outside their circle of healthy people, not needed.

Speaking of which, have any of the mask edicts had an end date or end goal (not the generic "until COVID is gone") associated with them? That should tell something right there.

 

[jamil]

I am reminded that the virus can enter the body through the membranes of the eyes into the sinuse cavities, so if you cover your eyes we're all in trouble.

I'm not sure why this point is made WRT wearing masks. Yes, your eyes are one vector of infection. And wearing masks can exacerbate that if it causes you touch infected stuff and touch your face, eyes, whatnot, more than you would without it. But as has been pointed out several times, the call to wear masks isn't to protect yourself from other people, it's to protect other people from you in case you're infected and are asymptomatic.

So of course wearing a mask won't protect you if the virus enters through your eyes. And it probably won't protect you from virus entering through your nose or mouth, because the size of the virus when it is aerosolized, compared to the microscopic openings in the mask, the protection the mask gives is like throwing pebbles through a chain link fence. But, some studies have shown that wearing a mask does prevent virus carrying droplets from going very far from your face. So they can theoretically help keep you from spreading it to someone else if you have the virus.

 

[jamil]

"can do to prevent it AND help our fellow man."

sounds a lot like what you said

Not the same thing. "All we can do" is a lot more than I'd like to do, or that I think I have a moral responsibility to do. We've seen a lot of "all we can do". We shut down 1/3 of our ***damn economy while making large retail corporations richer and small businesses much poorer. I don't want to do ALL we can do. I want to do what we can reasonably do. Maybe if the statement is modified to say, "all we should do" I could go along with that. I think we should take reasonable precautions and no more than that.

And maybe that's what he meant. But the words were just imprecise.

 

[JettaKnight]

I don't think anyone is in the "I don't want to." camp but rather the "I'm not sick." camp. The refusal is to believe that a mask must be worn to protect against the unknown or that wearing a mask will make COVID or any other illness go away. As someone suggested above, if we're wearing masks because "we might be sick and not know it" then we should always wear masks forever. I doubt anyone would think that is reasonable. Someone is sick, stay home. Someone is sick and absolutely must go out, wear a mask. Someone who hasn't been sick for months and little contact with people outside their circle of healthy people, not needed.

Speaking of which, have any of the mask edicts had an end date or end goal (not the generic "until COVID is gone") associated with them? That should tell something right there.

My guess is that a lot of people who've contracted it, would say they're not sick, and haven't been around anyone who is - right up to the day they start puking their guts up.

 

[foszoe]

I would argue against shutting down the economy as helping our fellow man. I read it as a statement of finding a balance not of two absolutes.

Not the same thing. "All we can do" is a lot more than I'd like to do, or that I think I have a moral responsibility to do. We've seen a lot of "all we can do". We shut down 1/3 of our ***damn economy while making large retail corporations richer and small businesses much poorer. I don't want to do ALL we can do. I want to do what we can reasonably do. Maybe if the statement is modified to say, "all we should do" I could go along with that. I think we should take reasonable precautions and no more than that.

And maybe that's what he meant. But the words were just imprecise.

 

[Mr. Habib]

Monroe County Health official: Local face mask requirements likely

Monroe County is printing these and making them available for free to local businesses.

Saw those at Kroger's in Bloomington on Saturday. I walked past them with my family, all mask free. Maybe 1/2 the patrons were wearing masks. I saw three employees in the deli. One with no mask.
One with a homemade mask pulled down under his nose. One with a paper, surgical type mask, also pulled under her nose. This being in Bloomington, I was mildly shocked. Perhaps the sheep are
beginning to awaken.

 

[foszoe]

Most of the workers in Kroger's probably identify more with most of us. Patron's in Bloomington though, well if they ain't reporting people for not wearing masks, that would be a real shocker!

Saw those at Kroger's in Bloomington on Saturday. I walked past them with my family, all mask free. Maybe 1/2 the patrons were wearing masks. I saw three employees in the deli. One with no mask.
One with a homemade mask pulled down under his nose. One with a paper, surgical type mask, also pulled under her nose. This being in Bloomington, I was mildly shocked. Perhaps the sheep are
beginning to awaken.

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

Wow. Some of these mask zealots are serious about it...

https://www.theblaze.com/news/man-r...qmnJ58Ar1aULY2ZAf1_95aiODPm4EXUl3h7OlpmE623ak

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

Not to be out done...

https://www.theblaze.com/news/secur...utm_source=facebook&utm_campaign=fb-glennbeck

 

[DoggyDaddy]

Not to be out done...

https://www.theblaze.com/news/secur...utm_source=facebook&utm_campaign=fb-glennbeck

See? I took it pretty easy on the Wendy's customers today. I didn't kill any of them!