To Mask or Not to Mask?

[foszoe]

That seems subjective from an empirical type of person.

Have you known someone who didn't know they were sick until someone else told them?

Because there is no evidence of sickness.

From a physical standpoint, if I'm not presenting symptoms, then my exhalation is not virus-laden and therefore poses no risk of harm to others.

From a legal standpoint, I enjoy the presumption of health and therefore the presumption of right to act according to my own agency. Anyone who wishes to compel me to act counter to my own agency bears the burden to prove that I pose some risk to others.

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

That seems subjective from an empirical type of person.

Have you known someone who didn't know they were sick until someone else told them?

So what you're suggesting then...everyone should always wear a mask, even when/if the CV-19 thing is conquered? (Because if it's not that virus, it could be the next plague that they're talking about bubbling up in China now, or something from somewhere else, or just the regular old flu).

 

[foszoe]

That's a lot of suggestion from two lines!

So what you're suggesting then...everyone should always wear a mask, even when/if the CV-19 thing is conquered? (Because if it's not that virus, it could be the next plague that they're talking about bubbling up in China now, or something from somewhere else, or just the regular old flu).

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

That's a lot of suggestion from two lines!

Why would you not? Under this paradigm one would never know if they are sick or not until they either started to exhibit symptoms or someone told them they were sick. If we are to "mask up" because we don't know, then why not "mask up" here after? We don't know what we don't know...if it saves just one life...if you are considerate of your fellow man...and all of that stuff.

 

[foszoe]

From an post a couple of pages back.

Temporal and geographical proximitiy comes into play.

If the virus is in Wuhan, then wearing masks around the world would not really be effective because the likelihood of coming in contact with someone who is contagious is minuscule. Same if it's isolated in Washington State. Having people in Indiana wear masks would be a waste of resources. Once it moves into your neighborhood, it might become a good idea to wear a mask.

Why would you not? Under this paradigm one would never know if they are sick or not until they either started to exhibit symptoms or someone told them they were sick. If we are to "mask up" because we don't know, then why not "mask up" here after? We don't know what we don't know...if it saves just one life...if you are considerate of your fellow man...and all of that stuff.

 

[JettaKnight]

Back when fouci was saying wearing masks won’t help, I’m in Kroger and I see Bubba coming down the isle pushing a cart with gloved hands, wearing a respirator that looked a lot like a gas mask, goggles on his face, and to round out the ensemble a partially open carried Glock in what appeared to be a paddle holster. Dude looked absolutely ridiculous. I mean, it’s whatever. Point is, I’m pretty sure that guy don’t vote for Democrats. Decked out in full protective gear.

Now? If I saw him again, I’m pretty sure I’d recognize him by the paddle holstered Glock. But he’d have zero PPE.

The karens and the bubbas have flipped positions. It’s kinda funny. But it also illustrates the futility of your efforts to maintain the act that the karens were right both times.

If masks stop the spread of disease now then they would stop the spread of disease then. That would be a handy thing to have happened in NY before they had to put bodies in uhaul trucks. The case then could have been that we just needed to give medical workers priority for having masks. But that’s not how it was presented. Fouci lied to Americans to manipulate their behavior. And maybe he did it for the greater good. But make that case instead of parsing words and pretending that you and the karen squad were right both ways.

I was just thinking that thought when read this.


We have whole INGO subsections devoted to survival, risk aversion, self defense... but suddenly putting on a cloth mask to avoid a disease is stupid.

We've let ourselves trick ourselves into thinking that putting on a mask is some sort act of subservience.


It seems to me we've let that perception and fear of tyranny trump logical risk aversion.
Maybe liberals aren't the only ones to operate on feelings.

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

From an post a couple of pages back.

But... you don't know if you're sick. Ever. That's the paradigm we're now operating under. If thems the rules, then thems the rules.

 

[JettaKnight]

Why would you not? Under this paradigm one would never know if they are sick or not until they either started to exhibit symptoms or someone told them they were sick. If we are to "mask up" because we don't know, then why not "mask up" here after? We don't know what we don't know...if it saves just one life...if you are considerate of your fellow man...and all of that stuff.

Nothing wins arguments on INGO like accusing your adversary of being, "if it just saves one life".

https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/strawman

But... you don't know if you're sick. Ever.

But you do know if there's a really nasty influenza virus floating around with asymptotic carriers in the population.

So, yeah, you kind of do know you're not likely to be sick with a very nasty bug.


You're trying to complete ignore statistics, probability, basic epidemiology and logic.
And failing.

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

Nothing wins arguments on INGO like accusing your adversary of being, "if it just saves one life".

https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/strawman

True enough. That seems to be part of the mask up campaign.

 

[JettaKnight]

True enough. That seems to be part of the mask up campaign.

No it's not. That's projection. That's the attitude you want to project on to it so you can easily denigrate. That's the exact definition of a strawman argument.

You are painting your opponent as having a particulate view that's easy to knock down. Your tactic is transparent.

 

[foszoe]

Do you own a gun for self defense?

Do you carry it everywhere?

Why or why not?

But... you don't know if you're sick. Ever. That's the paradigm we're now operating under. If thems the rules, then thems the rules.

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

No it's not. That's projection. That's the attitude you want to project on to it so you can easily denigrate. That's the exact definition of a strawman argument.

You are painting your opponent as having a particulate view that's easy to knock down. Your tactic is transparent.

No it's not. Not when I've heard them say and write pretty much that exact sentiment as they make their case for why I should have to wear it.

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

Do you own a gun for self defense?

Do you carry it everywhere?

Why or why not?

I carry that by choice. When I choose and how I choose. Big difference.

 

[foszoe]

You don't seem yourself.

"should wear it" and "should have to wear it" are two different things.

No it's not. Not when I've heard them say and write pretty much that exact sentiment as they make their case for why I should have to wear it.

 

[foszoe]

No difference at all, unless you live where they are forcing you to wear a mask.

I carry that by choice. When I choose and how I choose. Big difference.

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

You don't seem yourself.

"should wear it" and "should have to wear it" are two different things.

OK.

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

No difference at all, unless you live where they are forcing you to wear a mask.

That's what we're talking about. At least that's what I'm talking about. The moving goal posts are quickly converging (really already have) on the thinking that because of asymptomatic spread or pre-symptomatic spread, wearing a mask is key to saving lives. It's because "we don't know if we're sick". To that end, we have governors and mayors handing out edicts that you will wear a mask whenever you leave the house. I'm saying that since we will never ever know if we're not sick (we never did know we weren't in actuality), logicially, by the bridge we've crossed, we should wear masks forever. If that's the logic we're going to use, it seems reasonable to stick to it--because we never did know and we never will know that we're not sick--until we are.

 

[BugI02]

That seems subjective from an empirical type of person.

Have you known someone who didn't know they were sick until someone else told them?

Several of them on INGO

 

[Hatin Since 87]

I carry that by choice. When I choose and how I choose. Big difference.

I’m all for mandatory carrying of a firearm! I like it

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

I’m all for mandatory carrying of a firearm! I like it

I'm not. Some folks don't have enough sense to operate a light switch much less a bang switch.