To mask or not to mask....That is the question. Part II

[JettaKnight]

Can a business deny a person entry based on color, religion, sex, familial status, national origin, age, and genetic information? No they cannot. There is not the absolute you believe in absolutely...

Those are literally forbade by law.

Instituting a rule that aligns with state mandates, Federal rules, CDC guidelines, and generally accepted practice within the medical community in the thick of a widespread pandemic is so, very, very far away that it makes your argument laughable or sad - I can't say which.

If you think it is discriminatory, then your redress is through the courts. But, you're not exactly the 21st century Rosa Parks because you don't wear a mask.

 

[JettaKnight]

Ah thanks for the visual that can not be unseen.

Bring back neg rep!

 

[ditcherman]

They want you masked. The reason they don`t confront you is because they`ve been berated and threatened and at times even physically attacked for attempting to enforce the guidelines. If they didn`t want you masked, they wouldn`t have the sign out front regardless of what local government said. What`s happening when you go in ignoring the signage is you`re putting more stress on the employees and staff, and adding to the tension in whatever place you`ve entered.

Haha nope. Not at all. These are my people. They have not been berated. They are not under stress, except what the scandemic has caused.
Not in the least.
Literally half of these places I don’t pay when I leave, they put it on my tab, and they all know my name and I know theirs.
If they were the least amount stressed I would hear the story, let alone being berated or abused. Someone has made this up out of thin air, that this is anything more than an incidental occurrence, and you have latched on to it.
I’ll give you some stress added on the other patrons, possibly, and that’s exactly my purpose. Make people think.

We haven’t even got to ‘signs don’t carry the weight of law’ yet.

 

[Ingomike]

Those are literally forbade by law.

Instituting a rule that aligns with state mandates, Federal rules, CDC guidelines, and generally accepted practice within the medical community in the thick of a widespread pandemic is so, very, very far away that it makes your argument laughable or sad - I can't say which.

If you think it is discriminatory, then your redress is through the courts. But, you're not exactly the 21st century Rosa Parks because you don't wear a mask.

Who can ask for medical info to prove who must wear a mask or not is protected.

 

[wcd]

Who can ask for medical info to prove who must wear a mask or not is protected.

Here no one it’s a breach of Hipaa laws.

 

[JettaKnight]

Haha nope. Not at all. These are my people. They have not been berated. They are not under stress, except what the scandemic has caused.
Not in the least.
Literally half of these places I don’t pay when I leave, they put it on my tab, and they all know my name and I know theirs.
If they were the least amount stressed I would hear the story, let alone being berated or abused. Someone has made this up out of thin air, that this is anything more than an incidental occurrence, and you have latched on to it.
I’ll give you some stress added on the other patrons, possibly, and that’s exactly my purpose. Make people think.

We haven’t even got to ‘signs don’t carry the weight of law’ yet.

I gotta agree. Half of the signs are "because of corporate". And the low paid guy or gal working doesn't want the bother of hassling anyone. There's 1 in 5 chance the shopper's going to fly off the handle - not worth the stress just to enforce a policy.

Or, the signs went up a year ago and no one can be bothered to take them down.

And where are you shopping that you have a tab? Mayberry?

 

[wcd]

I gotta agree. Half of the signs are "because of corporate". And the low paid guy or gal working doesn't want the bother of hassling anyone. There's 1 in 5 chance the shopper's going to fly off the handle - not worth the stress just to enforce a policy.

Or, the signs went up a year ago and no one can be bothered to take them down.

And where are you shopping that you have a tab? Mayberry?

Not to get off track but, well this is INGO so proceeding. But I wonder how many Criminal empowerment zones signs went up because of Corporate?

Understanding Panera Bread is very anti, but some how the one In Brentwood lost it’s sign.
Based on the owners position on the matter.

 

[BugI02]

Who can ask for medical info to prove who must wear a mask or not is protected.

They're not asking for medical justification, because they cannot (legally), so they simply require everyone to mask - no information about your health is REQUIRED from you. If you want an exception to that policy, you are asserting a medical condition and could easily be asked to provide documentation, otherwise no mask exemption

Not saying I agree with it

In fact, in Indiana you can ignore a store owner's wish that you not be armed on his premises and have only to leave if you are discovered and asked to do so, signs do not have the force of law

Mask mandate also lacks the force of law because the governor was not allowed to criminalize non-compliance by making it a misdemeanor or imposing a fine. Seems analogous to firearms carry - ignore the signs, leave if asked to, no other penalties can be levied

 

[ditcherman]

I gotta agree. Half of the signs are "because of corporate". And the low paid guy or gal working doesn't want the bother of hassling anyone. There's 1 in 5 chance the shopper's going to fly off the handle - not worth the stress just to enforce a policy.

Or, the signs went up a year ago and no one can be bothered to take them down.

And where are you shopping that you have a tab? Mayberry?

Pretty much, I guess. Spoiled rotten by old fashioned honesty.
All tractor and machinery dealerships (5). Hardware, feed, and Napa. A tire store or two and a few mechanic shops. Seems normal to me, don’t see any other way to operate. Up until maybe 5 years ago lots of bars and lunch spots had tabs, but we didn’t do much of that since the 70’s.

 

[ditcherman]

Not to get off track but, well this is INGO so proceeding. But I wonder how many Criminal empowerment zones signs went up because of Corporate?

Understanding Panera Bread is very anti, but some how the one In Brentwood lost it’s sign.
Based on the owners position on the matter.

I don’t see this as off track at all. But don’t trust me, I’m an anarchist.

 

[Ingomike]

They're not asking for medical justification, because they cannot (legally), so they simply require everyone to mask - no information about your health is REQUIRED from you. If you want an exception to that policy, you are asserting a medical condition and could easily be asked to provide documentation, otherwise no mask exemption

If you tell them they must accept it, that is all they can do. They cannot require disclosure of medical information. Just like retailers wanted to require documentation of service animals, nope, private info, the retailer is allowed to ask if it is a service animal, and what tasks it performs, and that is only if handicap is not obvious.

 

[sparky32]

In Kroger today Greenwood, Center Grove area its changed big time in the last 4 weeks maybe 20% masked maybe? Has anyone else seen a massive drop in the face diaper? I felt like I was the only maskless soul for months now I have company!!!

 

[churchmouse]

Lowes is private property that happens to be a business. They 100% have the right to mandate anything they like to allow you entrance.

Yes they do and yes we have the ability to flip them off and roll. Hell they don’t have much in stock now anyway. The ACE hardware we use could give 2 craps about a mask and they actually have some stuff on the shelves.

 

[MCgrease08]

The only thing these corporate stores understand is money and it's the only leverage we have to actually impact policy. They've decided that it's easier to set a blanket policy that covers all stores nationwide rather than having different rules for various locations. That's why the chain stores like Walmart, Kroger, Meijer etc., have left signs up.

Personally, I don't think simply not patronizing stores with signs is realistic, because there aren't local mom and pop grocers to go to instead. Plus, if you simply don't walk in, they don't know they've lost a sale.

I haven't worn a mask into a retail store in well over a month. I simply ignore the signs and I have not once been asked to mask up, let alone leave the store. I guess they'd rather have the business than ask me to leave.

That said, if they did ask, I'm happy to abandon a full shopping cart in the middle of the aisle and leave. At least that way, they know they lost money because of the policy. If they say nothing, others see that they won't kick people out for being unmasked and maybe they're emboldened to free their face too.

 

[ditcherman]

The only thing these corporate stores understand is money and it's the only leverage we have to actually impact policy. They've decided that it's easier to set a blanket policy that covers all stores nationwide rather than having different rules for various locations. That's why the chain stores like Walmart, Kroger, Meijer etc., have left signs up.

Personally, I don't think simply not patronizing stores with signs is realistic, because there aren't local mom and pop grocers to go to instead. Plus, if you simply don't walk in, they don't know they've lost a sale.

I haven't worn a mask into a retail store in well over a month. I simply ignore the signs and I have not once been asked to mask up, let alone leave the store. I guess they'd rather have the business than ask me to leave.

That said, if they did ask, I'm happy to abandon a full shopping cart in the middle of the aisle and leave. At least that way, they know they lost money because of the policy. If they say nothing, others see that they won't kick people out for being unmasked and maybe they're emboldened to free their face too.

You, sir, are a dirty anarchist.

 

[ghuns]

A little shocked to see the NYTs taking apart a statement from the CDC on outdoor 'Rona transmission...

A Misleading C.D.C. Number

When the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention released new guidelines last month for mask wearing, it announced that “less than 10 percent” of Covid-19 transmission was occurring outdoors. Media organizations repeated the statistic, and it quickly became a standard description of the frequency of outdoor transmission.

But the number is almost certainly misleading.

It appears to be based partly on a misclassification of some Covid transmission that actually took place in enclosed spaces (as I explain below). An even bigger issue is the extreme caution of C.D.C. officials, who picked a benchmark — 10 percent — so high that nobody could reasonably dispute it.

That benchmark “seems to be a huge exaggeration,” as Dr. Muge Cevik, a virologist at the University of St. Andrews, said. In truth, the share of transmission that has occurred outdoors seems to be below 1 percent and may be below 0.1 percent, multiple epidemiologists told me. The rare outdoor transmission that has happened almost all seems to have involved crowded places or close conversation.

Saying that less than 10 percent of Covid transmission occurs outdoors is akin to saying that sharks attack fewer than 20,000 swimmers a year. (The actual worldwide number is around 150.) It’s both true and deceiving.

This isn’t just a gotcha math issue. It is an example of how the C.D.C. is struggling to communicate effectively, and leaving many people confused about what’s truly risky. C.D.C. officials have placed such a high priority on caution that many Americans are bewildered by the agency’s long list of recommendations. Zeynep Tufekci of the University of North Carolina, writing in The Atlantic, called those recommendations “simultaneously too timid and too complicated.”

They continue to treat outdoor transmission as a major risk. The C.D.C. says that unvaccinated people should wear masks in most outdoor settings and vaccinated people should wear them at “large public venues”; summer camps should require children to wear masks virtually “at all times.”

 

[drillsgt]

A little shocked to see the NYTs taking apart a statement from the CDC on outdoor 'Rona transmission...

A Misleading C.D.C. Number

If we keep leaving this up to weak academic bureaucrats they'll never make a decision and you'll be wearing a mask forever.

 

[d.kaufman]

academic bureaucrats they'll never make a decision and you'll be wearing a mask forever.

Fauchi already talking about masks every flu season since they magically made the flu disappear this year

 

[drillsgt]

Fauchi already talking about masks every flu season since they magically made the flu disappear this year

Ha, he can just mandate that flu season is 1/1-12/31.

 

[jamil]

No they absolutely do not have the right to mandate "anything" they want. Just try and keep even an emotional support animal out. I did not invite the public to my home as a public accommodation like Lowes etc.

Can a business mandate people to sacrifice their ugly child before entering the establishment? Clearly there is a legal limit. Legislation and the courts have established the concept of public accommodations. And that's just the way it is. People can argue about the way it SHOULD be. But the way it is, you're right that businesses that operate as a public accommodation can't do just anything they want. But if what they're requiring is not illegal, and it's enforced without discrimination against the established protected classes, they can. One could argue that it discriminates against people who can't wear masks for health reasons. But anyway, it sounds like you're making a "should" argument more than an "is" argument, becuase they can obviously do it. They have.