Episcopus - I agree with you. I have known people who have been disarmed and the officer asked for them to "hand" him their weapon. If memory serves, one guy had an officer remove the magazine and hand both back to him asking him not to "load it" util the officer had left. He never bothered to clear the round in the chamber. Anway, if the officer wanted me to physically hand him/her the weapon, when he/she recieved it, the weapon would be empty. If they choose to take it off of my person, that can be done safely outside of the vehicle. Actually, when I drive my 45 is either in a holster mounted to the front of my truck seat, or to the side of our car's seat. If an officer approaches the vehicle, I usually slide something over it to keep his/her mind at ease. If they were to ask about a weapon, I would simply indicate where it was and ask that it remain there. Beyond that it would be up to them how we proceeded, but I still wouldn't "hand" them the weapon loaded.
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This scares the hell out of me (LEO attitudes toward CCW)
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I was taught that one NEVER hands someone a loaded firearm. All involved should check to see that it is empty (unloaded) before handing off and when recieving.
Funny thing is looking at how arrogant they are. They think it is for their safety well i have taken the course required for LEO's and in the same couse I fire 2-3 times the amount of ammunition than they did and shot better than any of them probabaly would have unless they had extensive background in shooting. THEREFORE I AM MORE QUALIFIFED THAN THEY ARE WITH A HANDGUN most of the times. I probabaly outshoot 90 something percent of them and probabaly fire way many more rounds and I pay for private training.
It is ususally the young ones that think they are cool since they get to walk around with a gun and be an LEO. I do not know any young cops or deputies but I know middle aged ones and they are the kind of cops you would rather see or meet in a traffic stop or for any other reason.
It is ususally the young ones that think they are cool since they get to walk around with a gun and be an LEO. I do not know any young cops or deputies but I know middle aged ones and they are the kind of cops you would rather see or meet in a traffic stop or for any other reason.
Wow a lot of haters!Sorry for stating my opinion guys, since I apparently offended everyone. Shoot I'll make sure my opinions and statements in the future are exactly the same as everyone else's. I don't think it's shameful to have an opinion on something. I don't think it is shameful to serve in your community and enforce things even that you may not fully agree with (gun ordinances, seat belt laws, speed limits). But that is for another discussion. If I choose to allow an officer to disarm me for "his safety", than that is my choice, what do you care. You choose to not allow an officer to disarm you, great, that is your choice! You and I have to live with each of our choices and the consequences if there are consequences. Maybe I shouldn't allow, maybe you should. Whatever. I don't hate you for your opinion, don't hate me.
But whatever.
It's early and I know that I'm wasting my breath, But I'll try.
You need to Chill, Not everyone Hates You BUT Not everyone wants OR needs to be treated like a Felon. Not everyone is a Felon and you will need to learn to Differentiate between the two.
That said, we are all human and all capable of felonious actions (including you and me) or thoughts, and you must be constantly vigilant and rely on training and gut instinct to guide you through your career. You will make mistakes, lose your cool, but you also have the chance to make a Difference for someone. We all have our 15 minutes of Fame, you just have to wait your turn, it will come if you are ready or not. Save the Testosterone Stories for the Donut Shop or the Gym.
What they do not understand is Police work is not a JOB it is a lifestyle if done correctly. Some can follow the path and some lose their way. It's up to you to decide which path that you choose. I'd take a bullet for you because you are a brother cop but I'd also take that same bullet for them because it is the right thing to do. It's a difficult life and one that many cannot handle the stress associated with the job. Be Safe and remember, I am always on your side, just try to choose the right path. I hope that you understand these sentiments and if not today, well maybe tomorrow :rolleyesedit:
Glock Lover,
I in no way hate you. I do think we are having a discussion and sometimes they can get heated. I try not to hold grudges, especially online where grudges are pointless. I have debated people on other gun boards and at it has even got to the point of name calling (of course I didn't start it
) but on another thread on some other topic I (we actually) acted like that never even happened. We left it where it was and I plan to do the same here.
The reason for the argument? *gasp!* I had an unpopular opinion, just like you. I won't mention what it was, but let me just say, I would probably be in your shoes if I did. It doesn't make me believe it any less.
What they were trying to do is exactly what I and several others are trying to do here is just to show the other side. You are looking at it through your police glasses and I, my civilian glasses. We both want what is best for us. I don't wish to see you or any other LEO harmed, but I also don't wish to see people's rights violated in the name of saftey.
At the end of the day freedom isn't safe. In fact, IMO, it is the opposite of safe. You have to give up some of one for the other. It is a matter of how much that is up for debate.
I in no way hate you. I do think we are having a discussion and sometimes they can get heated. I try not to hold grudges, especially online where grudges are pointless. I have debated people on other gun boards and at it has even got to the point of name calling (of course I didn't start it
) but on another thread on some other topic I (we actually) acted like that never even happened. We left it where it was and I plan to do the same here.The reason for the argument? *gasp!* I had an unpopular opinion, just like you. I won't mention what it was, but let me just say, I would probably be in your shoes if I did. It doesn't make me believe it any less.
What they were trying to do is exactly what I and several others are trying to do here is just to show the other side. You are looking at it through your police glasses and I, my civilian glasses. We both want what is best for us. I don't wish to see you or any other LEO harmed, but I also don't wish to see people's rights violated in the name of saftey.
At the end of the day freedom isn't safe. In fact, IMO, it is the opposite of safe. You have to give up some of one for the other. It is a matter of how much that is up for debate.
Disposable Heart
Grandmaster
I have learned that voicing one's opinion on the internet will only be met with people that are untrained in Rhetorical theory and debate. They will scream and yell, pull their hair out "HOW DARE YOU HAVE A DIFFERENT OPINION AS MY OWN" and so on. Ridiculous and sollipsistic. The idea that you idea is the only one is pretty strange, but a common thing I have been seeing. Even on my former favorite, the High Road, everyone has degenerated into the traditional yell, plug your ears way of talking over differences. I idea of the internet is to post one' ideas and LISTEN to others. To pick it apart is only reserved for the Senate floor, not a forum whose goal is to spread ideas, not program others to take them.
I find the idea that people are ridiculed or seen in a strange light due to differing ideals against the first amendment. People have a right to disagree, however, there is a civility level associated with that. I enjoy small boards because in many cases you get to meet the other's face to face. However, lately, no one knows another so no one will back down (eric, remember that from Reservior Dogs?. But lately, only a select few are allowed to voice their opinion unscathed by the immoliation of the "peanut gallery" (I just learned that term today!).
Unpopular opinions have made some of the greatest things and concepts on this planet. Democracy, equal rights, etc... However, the people that should know the constitution by heart and most likely do (they can give you second amendment law like no one else) are forgetting the first Amendment: the right to free exhange of ideas and speech. They may attempt to uphold the constitution, however, they do not act in the spirit of it. The forefathers were trained rhetorticians. They didnt call one another names or stoop to low tricks when debating the constitution. They talked it out and let themselves decide, but only after all ideas were presented, LISTENED TO and thought over. No one plugged their ears and yelled over one another. I would hope one day that people in the i-net forums who "act" in the spirit of the constitution would finally do so.
I find the idea that people are ridiculed or seen in a strange light due to differing ideals against the first amendment. People have a right to disagree, however, there is a civility level associated with that. I enjoy small boards because in many cases you get to meet the other's face to face. However, lately, no one knows another so no one will back down (eric, remember that from Reservior Dogs?. But lately, only a select few are allowed to voice their opinion unscathed by the immoliation of the "peanut gallery" (I just learned that term today!).
Unpopular opinions have made some of the greatest things and concepts on this planet. Democracy, equal rights, etc... However, the people that should know the constitution by heart and most likely do (they can give you second amendment law like no one else) are forgetting the first Amendment: the right to free exhange of ideas and speech. They may attempt to uphold the constitution, however, they do not act in the spirit of it. The forefathers were trained rhetorticians. They didnt call one another names or stoop to low tricks when debating the constitution. They talked it out and let themselves decide, but only after all ideas were presented, LISTENED TO and thought over. No one plugged their ears and yelled over one another. I would hope one day that people in the i-net forums who "act" in the spirit of the constitution would finally do so.
Disposable Heart
Grandmaster
Okay! Thats IT! I challenge YOU to a duel. Sunday morning. Your Springfield versus my Taurus. Gotta find an e-glove to slap you with!Actually, they did. In fact they even dueled over it.
SavageEagle
Grandmaster
- Apr 27, 2008
- 19,568
- 38
Why should we? Technically, whether we get it back or not, if we aren't under arrest, that is illegal search and seizure. If you have a license, the Sup. of the State Police declares you a proper person and a simple traffic stop for an infraction isn't grounds for search and seizure. I see no reason why a "proper person" should be REQUIRED to hand it over. just my .02
It probably would make the Front Page and the Evening NewsSo, if I understand right, some of you believe that you should not have to hand over your gun to a LEO on a traffic stop?
What a good thread that would make.opcorn2:
SavageEagle
Grandmaster
- Apr 27, 2008
- 19,568
- 38
ok, proper person aside, as its been stated before, someone legally carrying would be the one to state they have a firearm. Someone who is illegally carrying on the other hand wouldn't devulge such information.
So again, I still see no point in having to hand it over unless I was being searched for something and/or arrested.
So again, I still see no point in having to hand it over unless I was being searched for something and/or arrested.
SavageEagle
Grandmaster
- Apr 27, 2008
- 19,568
- 38
118... couldn't resist...
stopped
Stopped by Fishers officer once. Around midnite, for speeding. Asks me for lic and reg, then asks if I have a weapon on me tonite. I say ,no, I have three weapons with me. Asks me where, and I tell him in the tool bag on the seat next to me. He asks me to slowly hand him the bag which I did. Then asks if I have a permit. Of course I say and give him that as well. He goes to his car, returns, and gives me all back and tells me he unloaded all 3 guns and would appreciate it if I wouldn't reload until he left. Said thanks for being honest, he doesn't get that much. Told me I was clocked at 47 in a 30 and since i was honest with him to have a nice nite and watch my speed. About 2 weeks later I was stopped while driving another vehicle. This time my plate for some reason did not match my truck,(thanks BMV). I had pulled into my apartment complex, again it was Fishers, again around midnite. The officer followed me into the complex and I had already gotten out of the truck. He told me what he stopped me for and asked to see my reg. I said ok but told him when I open my glovebox he was going to see a box of 45 ammo and i didn't want him to be surprised, also that I was carrying my 45 at that time. He said that was cool he had seen my NRA sticker on the back window and figured I was carrying anyway. He said all he was interested in was checking why my plate didn't match. That was the end of that. Only time I ever got a speeding ticket was in Indy and the officer never asked anything, just gave me a ticket and said have a nice day. Wasn't a real nice day as that cost me $138!!! :rolleyesedit:
Stopped by Fishers officer once. Around midnite, for speeding. Asks me for lic and reg, then asks if I have a weapon on me tonite. I say ,no, I have three weapons with me. Asks me where, and I tell him in the tool bag on the seat next to me. He asks me to slowly hand him the bag which I did. Then asks if I have a permit. Of course I say and give him that as well. He goes to his car, returns, and gives me all back and tells me he unloaded all 3 guns and would appreciate it if I wouldn't reload until he left. Said thanks for being honest, he doesn't get that much. Told me I was clocked at 47 in a 30 and since i was honest with him to have a nice nite and watch my speed. About 2 weeks later I was stopped while driving another vehicle. This time my plate for some reason did not match my truck,(thanks BMV). I had pulled into my apartment complex, again it was Fishers, again around midnite. The officer followed me into the complex and I had already gotten out of the truck. He told me what he stopped me for and asked to see my reg. I said ok but told him when I open my glovebox he was going to see a box of 45 ammo and i didn't want him to be surprised, also that I was carrying my 45 at that time. He said that was cool he had seen my NRA sticker on the back window and figured I was carrying anyway. He said all he was interested in was checking why my plate didn't match. That was the end of that. Only time I ever got a speeding ticket was in Indy and the officer never asked anything, just gave me a ticket and said have a nice day. Wasn't a real nice day as that cost me $138!!! :rolleyesedit:
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