This scares the hell out of me (LEO attitudes toward CCW)

[Glock Lover]

Love it when a plan comes together



All the name calling, whatever will I do?

 

[epsylum]

Love it when a plan comes together



All the name calling, whatever will I do?

I just noticed on another thread that you indicated that you are a LEO. That kind of explains things (not really as I know plenty of LEOs that disagree with you).

 

[Glock Lover]

I just noticed on another thread that you indicated that you are a LEO. That kind of explains things (not really as I know plenty of LEOs that disagree with you).

Cops just can't help trumping..oops I mean stirring stuff up!

 

[flagtag]

Not once in my life have I ever heard that holding up traffic because you're going the speed limit is an infraction, but oh well!

My Aunt and Uncle were pulled over once because he was driving the limit and everyone was passing. He didn't get a ticket, but was warned that he could for going too slow. How does THAT make sense?
So, you're "Dambed if you do, and dambed if you don't". Go figure! :rolleyesedit:

 

[Annie Oakley]

This is such a can of worms. There are a fair number of LEO's who are scared of the job. They react to some things in a more frantic way than others. DC Cop is in an area where CCW is not allowed and really doesn't have any experience in the real world like we do here in "fly over country". LEO's who are afraid should find another line of work. You just can't do the job if you are scared all the time.

Having said that and having been LEO and my husband being LEO most of the people on the job use instinct when making a traffic stop. It is one of the more dangerous aspects of the job. If an officer asks about firearms I will tell him. If he doesn't I may not. If he needs my gun for 10 minutes and specifically requests it he will have it. I won't like it but will do it. The majority of officers here in "rural" America are going to be more laid back about it than in other parts of the country. I doubt that any of us will be thrown over the hood of a car or shot by an officer on a speeding stop or for a headlight being out. I also doubt that anyone on this forum is going to shoot an officer for a traffic stop or anything else.

Bottom line is some people should not be in LE. Some people shouldn't be store clerks. But, they are. We have to deal with it as best we can and at the same time not give away our rights. I don't have an answer for exactly how that can be done but it starts with doing whatever you can to decrease your odds of being stopped and not considering everyone in uniform as the enemy.

 

[GetA2J]

I wish the opinions expressed below were shared by fewer people. I have a (limited) amount of pity for those who choose to believe that they don't need their rights because "they have nothing to hide" and glibly surrender to an illicit, warrentless search, or dismiss grossly bad behavior on the part of the police were "just doing their job."

They just don't get it.

However, my pity for them ends when I realize they vote and they're just as big a problem as those who actively seek to continue stealing our individual liberties and freedoms.

Well put Joey!
At the other forum I noticed that te argument seemed to revolve around the central theme that I have MY rights and you have YOUR rights and we simply cannot see eye to eye...
IMHO the issue stems more critical aound the thought that MY firearm is MUCH SAFER for ALL involve while it REMAINS in my holster. Once it is removed from my holster there is NO cover over the trigger guard, there IS a fallable human handeling the LOADED firearm, not to mention that while I can reach my firearm with ease the officer must lean WAY into my vehicle OR have me exit the vehicle to reach my firearm!!!!
ANY one of these scenarios puts ME in danger by being "covered" by the muzzle at some point during the "confiscation". Then there is a "human" fiddling with a LOADED frearm with which he is NOT familiar. The badge does NOT give anyone inherent knowledge of all firearms ever made.

 

[rhino]

IMHO the issue stems more critical aound the thought that MY firearm is MUCH SAFER for ALL involve while it REMAINS in my holster. Once it is removed from my holster there is NO cover over the trigger guard, there IS a fallable human handeling the LOADED firearm, not to mention that while I can reach my firearm with ease the officer must lean WAY into my vehicle OR have me exit the vehicle to reach my firearm!!!!

Well said.

Why this infallible logic is so difficult for some people to comprehend is beyond knowing. Unfortunately, I think it boils down to irrational fear of inanimate objects.

Another element that so few of the "I must disarm you for my safety" police officers is, once they get A gun from someone, how does that make them "safer"? How many of them even stop to consider that many people routinely carry multiple guns?

The whole "I have to disarm you" thing just can't be justified logically. It's all about emotion and dominance, and neither of those have any place in (ostensibly) professional interactions between police and citizens.

 

[Annie Oakley]

Impeding or obstructing traffic due to low speed is a misdemeanor not an ifraction. You can't not be cited for going the posted speed limit per the IC Traffic laws. If you need the actual code I can get it but will have to go through my book. Just FYI.

 

[epsylum]

Well said.

Why this infallible logic is so difficult for some people to comprehend is beyond knowing. Unfortunately, I think it boils down to irrational fear of inanimate objects.

Another element that so few of the "I must disarm you for my safety" police officers is, once they get A gun from someone, how does that make them "safer"? How many of them even stop to consider that many people routinely carry multiple guns?

The whole "I have to disarm you" thing just can't be justified logically. It's all about emotion and dominance, and neither of those have any place in (ostensibly) professional interactions between police and citizens.

Yes, a person could shoot the officer. Hell, he could attempt to snatch his gun or might punch the officer in the throat also. Then lets just start handcuffing people during traffic stops too. I mean it is for the officer's safety right? That is the exact same logic being used by those who think disarming a CCW holder is going to make them safer.

I think this might have been mentioned already, but please look up the violent crime rates of those who have a LTCH. I believe there was even a study in Indy not too long ago that is used nationwide that has that data in there even. IIRC it was extremely low. So just the fact that the person has a LTCH is a REASON to trust them, not disarm them because you fear for your safety. How many of those people shooting officers during traffic stops had a LTCH? I am willing to be few to none. It is the ones that don't have one that you should be worrying about and truthfully, if they are carrying illegally, they probably won't tell you that they are carrying in the first place.

Just a reminder: The OP of the thread in question stated that the people had valid CCW permits in their state and the officers knew it, but continued to treat them like first class criminals.

 

[epsylum]

Impeding or obstructing traffic due to low speed is a misdemeanor not an ifraction. You can't not be cited for going the posted speed limit per the IC Traffic laws. If you need the actual code I can get it but will have to go through my book. Just FYI.

Wait. Isn't an infraction < misdemeanor?

 

[flagtag]

Impeding or obstructing traffic due to low speed is a misdemeanor not an ifraction. You can't not be cited for going the posted speed limit per the IC Traffic laws. If you need the actual code I can get it but will have to go through my book. Just FYI.

True, but a lot of people believe what the "law" says, just because "they should know!"

 

[Bill of Rights]

Love it when a plan comes together



All the name calling, whatever will I do?

If you're referring to my use of the term "elitist", all I can say is that if the shoe fits, you wear it. That was the attitude you displayed, but it seems now like all you were looking for is to get people to reply. Well, congratulations, you did it. I hope you're happy with your actions. Sadly, by identifying yourself as a LEO and then posting as you did, you reflect as badly on your profession as a drug abusing or otherwise unprofessional medic does on mine. If you want an intelligent discourse, we could have one, but posting elitism and digging at people just to get a rise is hardly the way to make that happen.

I truly hope that all you were doing was "stirring things up", rather than posting your actual practices, if indeed you are a LEO.

Blessings,
B

 

[BloodEclipse]

Once it is removed from my holster there is NO cover over the trigger guard, there IS a fallable human handeling the LOADED firearm, not to mention that while I can reach my firearm with ease the officer must lean WAY into my vehicle OR have me exit the vehicle to reach my firearm!!!!
ANY one of these scenarios puts ME in danger by being "covered" by the muzzle at some point during the "confiscation". Then there is a "human" fiddling with a LOADED frearm with which he is NOT familiar. The badge does NOT give anyone inherent knowledge of all firearms ever made.

I keep thinking of all the trained LEOs who give gun safety and CCW classes who keep having negligent discharges. Not only does the badge not give anyone inherent knowledge of all firearms ever made as GetA2J says, but it doesn't mean they even have safe gun handling practices to begin with. I don't feel safe being disarmed by anyone I don't know.

 

[snake-doctor]

We need to go back to riding horses.....

 

[epsylum]

We need to go back to riding horses.....

They gave speeding tickets to horses and horse drawn carriages too.

 

[Scutter01]

They gave speeding tickets to horses and horse drawn carriages too.

How did they clock them?

 

[epsylum]

How did they clock them?

Not sure, but Ulysses Grant got one when he was the president. He used to race his horses through DC and got ticketed for it. I am guessing they just based it on if the horse was at a full gallop or not.

 

[Glock Lover]

If you're referring to my use of the term "elitist", all I can say is that if the shoe fits, you wear it. That was the attitude you displayed, but it seems now like all you were looking for is to get people to reply. Well, congratulations, you did it. I hope you're happy with your actions. Sadly, by identifying yourself as a LEO and then posting as you did, you reflect as badly on your profession as a drug abusing or otherwise unprofessional medic does on mine. If you want an intelligent discourse, we could have one, but posting elitism and digging at people just to get a rise is hardly the way to make that happen.

I truly hope that all you were doing was "stirring things up", rather than posting your actual practices, if indeed you are a LEO.

Blessings,
B

I didn't say I retracted anything I said. I simply am saying I enjoy debating on here. Nothing wrong with stirring things up with a "differing" opinion, which mine is. As long as everyone is big boys and girls enough to keep it a debate, and realize this is a forum where we come to debate and talk and get advice etc etc. You don't have to have a heart attack if someone doesn't agree with you on everything on this here forum. You don't have to call them a Commie because of that opinion. Have fun....breath...its ok, woooo saaaaa! Ex. I can believe a law is wrong and still follow that law because I think that is the proper thing to do. It's called a difference of opinion and we can all have them, and talk about them on here. And even get heated about them. Makes America great. It's ok to not agree, we can all be friends and get along, and still do our jobs and our duties proudly, and ethically. I promise I won't throw you on the hood. Pinkie Promise.

 

[Episcopus]

How did they clock them?

Maybe a watch with a second hand measuring the time to cover a certain distance? When did watches get second-hands?

 

[Annie Oakley]

Wait. Isn't an infraction < misdemeanor?

Yes, it is.