The Real Costs of Electric Car Ownership - CNET

[wtburnette]

I drove 56 miles each way to work into Chicago for 15 years. Driving into Chicago you never know when you are going to get stuck in traffic for a long time. Having enough gas for that gets ingrained after a while. Plus in the Winter I always keep my car fueled because you never know what will happen.

Not to mention, there isn't much within 2 miles of my house.

Makes sense. If I weren't using Kroger points and/or they weren't so close, I'd probably do differently.

 

[Ingomike]

This is already being fought in the courts. Farmers have been on the front lines of the fight.

I thought they lost the battle…

 

[Jaybird1980]

Since you attack Tesla(fanboy here), I’ll call out your FUD. Quick searches prove all your issues incorrect, but spreading Fear, Uncertainty, & Doubt is typical and understandable during change.
1) 100% Tesla lithium from Australia and Argentina(per impact report). Chile mines the most by far, China is currently 4th respectively. https://www.tesla.com/ns_videos/2020-tesla-impact-report.pdf

2) Honestly, never thought EVs weighed significantly more since they have thousands of less parts. I mean, the battery weighs a ton, but a quick search shows me comparable to the lightest luxury’s Audi and BMW (attached). Is it really “extremely heavy”?

3) There’s really nothing to repair or maintain, so is it really a “massive loss”? Tires and wiper fluid are all that I’ve seen over 4 years and 4 EVs. Currently, a damaged EV would need serviced by a skilled technician, I’m not trusting the mechanic who’s never seen one. “Bricking” your vehicle would destroy customer relationships, can’t see that happening sorry.

Your #1 point. Cool now do the graphite since there's a substantial amount more of that than there is lithium.

#3 point. Plain false. As has been shown earlier in this thread, and that person was gifted several very expensive repairs.

 

[indyblue]

Not me, since I'm using Kroger points, I wait until I'm under 50 miles left to go, preferably lower than that since the Kroger by me is less than 2 miles away.

Not sure how old your vehicle is, but most newer (<10 years old) need enough fuel in the tank to keep the fuel pump bucket full to cool the pump. If you routinely run near empty, it could burn up your pump or cause pre-mature failure, they're designed to be immersed.

 

[wtburnette]

Not sure how old your vehicle is, but most newer (<10 years old) need enough fuel in the tank to keep the fuel pump bucket full to cool the pump. If you routinely run near empty, it could burn up your pump or cause pre-mature failure, they're designed to be immersed.

Interesting, wasn't aware of that, thanks.

 

[Doug]

Not sure how old your vehicle is, but most newer (<10 years old) need enough fuel in the tank to keep the fuel pump bucket full to cool the pump. If you routinely run near empty, it could burn up your pump or cause pre-mature failure, they're designed to be immersed.

This happened to me with a 1990 Cutlass. Pump went out at 50,000 after consistently driving until the low fuel warning.
I routinely plan to refuel at 1/2 tank. That way, if I don't like the looks of the guys hanging around the station, I can wait a day.

 

[KLB]

I thought they lost the battle…

Looks like it still rages

13 John Deere Repair Lawsuits Consolidated in Illinois Court; Florida Suit Also Filed

Thirteen of 14 lawsuits filed against John Deere on the right-to-repair issue have been transferred to a federal court in northern Illinois.

www.dtnpf.com

As of 6/14/22 almost all of the existing cases were merged together.

 

[Percolater]

Losing the right to repair is a massive loss, once manufacturers have a monopoly on repairs they can charge you whatever they want. Four years is not a lot of time for a car, the average car spends around 12 years on the road, my truck is 16 years old and I've only ever had to change tires and do very basic maintenance that anyone with some free time and access to YouTube can do. I would consider Rich Benoit a skilled technician as he's fully rebuilt Tesla's by himself, but you'd still be locked out of supercharging and other features if you took your vehicle to him for a repair. You would think that bricking someone's car would destroy customer relationships, but you'd also think being locked out of your own car because of a 500 server error would do the same, but people keep buying them.

I will say a lot of my issues are not specifically with EVs but the unnecessary addition of computers to cars in general. like INGOMike said, proprietary software is an issue with all new vehicles.

Here's a link to Rich Benoit's YouTube channel if you're interested: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCfV0_wbjG8KJADuZT2ct4SA

Thanks for sharing! Rich’s videos help me better understand your concerns, and I have to admit how much that would suck! He makes good videos too, I will be following.

 

[Percolater]

Your #1 point. Cool now do the graphite since there's a substantial amount more of that than there is lithium.

#3 point. Plain false. As has been shown earlier in this thread, and that person was gifted several very expensive repairs.

Graphite is purchased from a processing plant in Louisiana, which sources from a mine in Mozambique. You’re right, 10 kilotons of graphite is a substantial amount more.

 

[Jaybird1980]

Graphite is purchased from a processing plant in Louisiana, which sources from a mine in Mozambique. You’re right, 10 kilotons of graphite is a substantial amount more.

That is a very recent change as in months, and they are still using China graphite as they did in all the ones prior.

"The Austin, Texas, electric vehicle maker plans to buy up to 80% of what the plant produces — 8,000 tons of graphite per year — starting in 2025, according to the agreement. Syrah must prove the material meets Tesla’s standards"

"The deal is part of Tesla’s plan to ramp up its capacity to make its own batteries so it can reduce its dependence on China, which dominates global graphite"

I'm really more interested in this statement you made.

There’s really nothing to repair or maintain, so is it really a “massive loss”? Tires and wiper fluid are all that I’ve seen over 4 years and 4 EVs

What do you mean there's nothing to repair or maintain. You do know that it still has the systems of a ICE vehicle plus a few more right, the only thing changing is the driveline.

 

[Ingomike]

That is a very recent change as in months, and they are still using China graphite as they did in all the ones prior.

I'm really more interested in this statement you made.

There’s really nothing to repair or maintain, so is it really a “massive loss”? Tires and wiper fluid are all that I’ve seen over 4 years and 4 EVs

What do you mean there's nothing to repair or maintain. You do know that it still has the systems of a ICE vehicle plus a few more right, the only thing changing is the driveline.

Don’t you rubes know EV’s are magic cars, most EV owners are happy to tell you so. They run pollution free on free energy and are more powerful than a unicorn fart...

 

[Jaybird1980]

I'm not an EV hater by any means, but to state they don't have anything to maintain or repair is bonkers.

I'm a lover of anything automotive really, and I've seen some cool stuff done with EV's

 

[Ingomike]

I loved that South Park episode on EV’s and their owners, they called the EV car pious, what a fitting name. I have laughed for years over just how true that is…

 

[Percolater]

Don’t jinx me Jay, if I randomly need repairs now you are to blame I shouldn’t have included “repair” in my statement, and understand Rum’s issue better now after clarification, but stand by the maintenance part.
My maintenance on my ICE vehicles: Oil/ Air/ fuel/ tranny filters, brake pads/ shoes/ rotors, spark plugs/ ignition system, hoses, coolant, belts, gaskets, exhaust, lubricants, battery terminal corrosion, differentials, gear selectors, car wash.
What might I be missing on an EV that needs maintenance?

That is a very recent change as in months, and they are still using China graphite as they did in all the ones prior.

"The Austin, Texas, electric vehicle maker plans to buy up to 80% of what the plant produces — 8,000 tons of graphite per year — starting in 2025, according to the agreement. Syrah must prove the material meets Tesla’s standards"

"The deal is part of Tesla’s plan to ramp up its capacity to make its own batteries so it can reduce its dependence on China, which dominates global graphite"

I'm really more interested in this statement you made.

There’s really nothing to repair or maintain, so is it really a “massive loss”? Tires and wiper fluid are all that I’ve seen over 4 years and 4 EVs

What do you mean there's nothing to repair or maintain. You do know that it still has the systems of a ICE vehicle plus a few more right, the only thing changing is the driveline.

 

[Jaybird1980]

Don’t jinx me Jay, if I randomly need repairs now you are to blame I shouldn’t have included “repair” in my statement, and understand Rum’s issue better now after clarification, but stand by the maintenance part.
My maintenance on my ICE vehicles: Oil/ Air/ fuel/ tranny filters, brake pads/ shoes/ rotors, spark plugs/ ignition system, hoses, coolant, belts, gaskets, exhaust, lubricants, battery terminal corrosion, differentials, gear selectors, car wash.
What might I be missing on an EV that needs maintenance?

The issue is you broke down the ICE into multiple small thing, plugs ignition, hoses, belts. You can do the same thing if you break down one individual piece on an EV, say the drive motor for instance. You have bearings, lubrication, seals, contacts, terminals, boards etc. On a Tesla you can have up to 4 drive motors and they are crazy expensive, a few years ago when I had to price one out it was $6k for a rebuilt and almost $12k for a new and a wait for either.

You still have brakes, gearbox, coolings system (multiple), pumps, suspension, gearbox lubricant, oil filters, gaskets, battery corrosion (lots more places to corrode in general), heating system (multiple) a bazillion sensors and modules.

It has just as many systems as a traditional ice car, a few have been swapped for other things is all. There is no free lunch in this world, if you have a mechanical piece of equipment it will need maintenance and repair.

What model do you have?

 

[Percolater]

The issue is you broke down the ICE into multiple small thing, plugs ignition, hoses, belts. You can do the same thing if you break down one individual piece on an EV, say the drive motor for instance. You have bearings, lubrication, seals, contacts, terminals, boards etc. On a Tesla you can have up to 4 drive motors and they are crazy expensive, a few years ago when I had to price one out it was $6k for a rebuilt and almost $12k for a new and a wait for either.

You still have brakes, gearbox, coolings system (multiple), pumps, suspension, gearbox lubricant, oil filters, gaskets, battery corrosion (lots more places to corrode in general), heating system (multiple) a bazillion sensors and modules.

It has just as many systems as a traditional ice car, a few have been swapped for other things is all. There is no free lunch in this world, if you have a mechanical piece of equipment it will need maintenance and repair.

What model do you have?

Currently, M3 SR+ rear wheel, and MY LR dual motor.
I think of maintenance as the little things I can do to keep all the systems running well, like what I listed. Opening a self contained drive motor or messing with sensors is out of most peoples realm of maintenance (including me). What happened to your drive motor that required a replacement?

 

[Jaybird1980]

Currently, M3 SR+ rear wheel, and MY LR dual motor.
I think of maintenance as the little things I can do to keep all the systems running well, like what I listed. Opening a self contained drive motor or messing with sensors is out of most peoples realm of maintenance (including me). What happened to your drive motor that required a replacement?

Most people aren't opening ICE either, or exhaust, differentials, ignition system, coolant, hoses, belts, tranny filters, gaskets sensors either

Not sure exactly what was wrong with the drive motor, I just helped diagnose that, didn't do the work as the guy just traded it and got a new one.

 

[Flingarrows]

I wouldn't say that I'm "lefty/greenie" and I'd like to have an electric car. At my age it's just not a priority, but I'd totally geek out with one. So there are a lot more reasons to want an electric car than left-wing enviro reasons. But as technology improves, there won't be many more reasons to cling to petroleum powered vehicles other than because it's what you know/have. Conservatives like to keep things the same. The world will keep moving and drag them along kicking and screaming.

I think ICE should remain available as long as there's a demand and is viable. But also, I think even if left to the markets, the future will phase them out. Along the way, eventually gas stations will fade out of prominence. Businesses which have primarily some other purpose (stores/restaurants/entertainment) will have charging stations.

It may not even be that battery/electric is the technology that displaces ICE in the market. I think it depends on which tech gets better faster. Not much left to improve on petroleum fueled ICE, so it won't be able to keep up. I think that will take awhile though. So those old enough to drive now would live long enough to keep their ICE vehicles if things are left to the market to sort out. So if you're hell bent on keeping your "normal car" you should be able to do it.

I get it, I just do not want to be forced into the market by artificially inflated fuel prices to push me there.

I just drove 5 hours with kayaks to my daughter and son in laws house. Im not interested in a $60k toy that cannot make a reasonable trip without a recharge, never mind the winter drag on the batteries.

I am not “anti electric”, I am “anti force me into a technology before it’s time”, and before the electric grid can handle it


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[Flingarrows]

I think ICE should remain available as long as there's a demand and is viable. But also, I think even if left to the markets, the future will phase them out.



So those old enough to drive now would live long enough to keep their ICE vehicles if things are left to the market to sort out.

Yes, let’s leave it to the markets, rather than tanking the petroleum industry resources to advance you “not ready for prime time technology”


Perfect, I agree 100%, let’s leave it to the markets, instead of the current administration policy of try to force people to it to fit their agenda


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[wtburnette]

Yes, let’s leave it to the markets, rather than tanking the petroleum industry resources to advance you “not ready for prime time technology”


Perfect, I agree 100%, let’s leave it to the markets, instead of the current administration policy of try to force people to it to fit their agenda


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Especially when anyone smarter than a chipmunk realizes the stated reasons behind the agenda are phoney.