The Real Costs of Electric Car Ownership - CNET

[KLB]

There is NO market for the last scenario which you describe, without government involvement. Without government involvement, the costs for the EV and solar panels would be astronomical... making it unmarketable.

Simply not true. There would be a market for EVs without government involvement. Tesla sold a lot of cars to people who think they are saving the planet, and a lot more to people that like to drive fast. When it comes to performance vehicles, it is really hard to beat the EVs. They tend to be less expensive than the ICE competition.

 

[jamil]

Right. Because supply/demand sets price. Nobody is disputing that bit, and it's exactly my point. Supply/demand sets price and the makers' goal is to make as much money as possible, period.

Cost of production doesn't directly, especially for non-commodity goods. If it did, there would be no incentive toward efficiency and nobody would go out of business, everyone could just run on a cost + scheme forever. It *does* affect the price you have to have to stay in business, mind you. Let's use Tesla again. Raising wages to keep workers since those pesky union guys got higher wages from the Big 3 so non-union guys get a raise as well to keep a labor force.... but lowering prices on their vehicles because demand is faltering as more viable alternatives hit the market and interest rates, etc put a dent in demand overall.



Yup. But also added complexity and CAFE standards pushing for thinner lubricants, lighter components, etc. make that draw a little more tilted away from long term reliability. I would welcome being wrong, but I think we'll find we peaked in long term reliability pre-COVID. Even Toyota is accepting components from suppliers they would have refused prior.

I'm pretty well set on just replacing whatever component needs replaced on my PW as long as I need a truck. I don't want an EV, I don't want built-in spyware, I don't want to beta-test the Hurricane, etc.

On the hurricane. So far so good. I have the i4 in my wrangler. But way too soon to tell.

 

[firecadet613]

Simply not true. There would be a market for EVs without government involvement. Tesla sold a lot of cars to people who think they are saving the planet, and a lot more to people that like to drive fast. When it comes to performance vehicles, it is really hard to beat the EVs. They tend to be less expensive than the ICE competition.

Key words - without government involvement.

Without all the help from the government, tax credits, etc, would Tesla have gotten to where they are now?

I love to drive fast, but a Corvette sounds a hell of a lot better than a silent Tesla.

 

[wtburnette]

DAVID BLACKMON: The EV Industry Had A No Good, Terrible, Very Bad Week

There seems little reason to expect the weeks to come to get noticeably better

dailycaller.com

 

[KLB]

Key words - without government involvement.

Without all the help from the government, tax credits, etc, would Tesla have gotten to where they are now?

I love to drive fast, but a Corvette sounds a hell of a lot better than a silent Tesla.

I don't care how they sound. I actually prefer to be able to punch it and not let everyone within 2 miles know I did.

No gears, instant throttle response, lots of torque. My EV6 GT is a absolute joy to drive, and it can be used for things other than just driving fast. It is hard to find an ICE car in the price range that can compete with it.

 

[firecadet613]

I don't care how they sound. I actually prefer to be able to punch it and not let everyone within 2 miles know I did.

No gears, instant throttle response, lots of torque. My EV6 GT is a absolute joy to drive, and it can be used for things other than just driving fast. It is hard to find an ICE car in the price range that can compete with it.

To each their own. After a couple of twin turbo F150s, the nice Hemi rumble of my current truck sounds good to my ears.

That EV6 looks to be about the same size as my Equinox (maybe smaller), a quick search shows a comparable EV6 is about $20,000 more than my loaded Equinox. That can buy a lot of gas!

 

[Ingomike]

One thing that seems missing from the thinking of many, the acknowledgment that electric prices will not remain what they are and as EV’s burden the system increasing demand prices will rise sharply.

Remember when diesel was half the price of gasoline…

 

[KLB]

To each their own. After a couple of twin turbo F150s, the nice Hemi rumble of my current truck sounds good to my ears.

That EV6 looks to be about the same size as my Equinox (maybe smaller), a quick search shows a comparable EV6 is about $20,000 more than my loaded Equinox. That can buy a lot of gas!

It's a stupid comparison. Nobody cross shops an EV6 GT with an Equinox. I'm sure your Equinox can run a sub 12sec 1/4 mile, and 0-60 in 3-3.5 secs.

Chevy doesn't make anything that would compare in its class. Only the Camaro ZL1 and the Corvette are in the same neighborhood performance wise. Both start about 6K more. Neither can seat 5 nor carry anything of substance.

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

One thing that seems missing from the thinking of many, the acknowledgment that electric prices will not remain what they are and as EV’s burden the system increasing demand prices will rise sharply.

Remember when diesel was half the price of gasoline…

As long as people keep swallowing the lies about climate change or whatever looming crisis is on the horizon, every fuel source will be targeted for regulation and elimination. If one believes getting an EV will put an end to it, they simply haven’t been paying attention.

 

[firecadet613]

It's a stupid comparison. Nobody cross shops an EV6 GT with an Equinox. I'm sure your Equinox can run a sub 12sec 1/4 mile, and 0-60 in 3-3.5 secs.

Chevy doesn't make anything that would compare in its class. Only the Camaro ZL1 and the Corvette are in the same neighborhood performance wise. Both start about 6K more. Neither can seat 5 nor carry anything of substance.

You're 100% correct. No one buys a 60k SUV that size, unless you want an EV and all the fun that goes with it.

As I'm sure you've seen the towing tests on the electric pickups, EVs can't haul anything of substance very far...

 

[firecadet613]

One thing that seems missing from the thinking of many, the acknowledgment that electric prices will not remain what they are and as EV’s burden the system increasing demand prices will rise sharply.

Remember when diesel was half the price of gasoline…

My mid sized REMC is just raised rates 10%....first rate increase in 10 years...

 

[jamil]

Key words - without government involvement.

Without all the help from the government, tax credits, etc, would Tesla have gotten to where they are now?

I love to drive fast, but a Corvette sounds a hell of a lot better than a silent Tesla.

Well, maybe Tesla should do what Ford did and pump fake V8-ness through the sound system.

 

[KLB]

You're 100% correct. No one buys a 60k SUV that size, unless you want an EV and all the fun that goes with it.

Exactly. I have a car with better performance than I ever dreamed I would. Plus it can be used to carry stuff in the back or seat 5 people.

As I'm sure you've seen the towing tests on the electric pickups, EVs can't haul anything of substance very far...

Towing? I have a Dodge 2500 Turbodiesel for towing. I would never even consider putting a hitch on any of our other vehicles.

EVs are not for everyone. They should not be mandated. That does not mean that because you don't want one that nobody does.

 

[KLB]

Well, maybe Tesla should do what Ford did and pump fake V8-ness through the sound system.

They do. The EV6 will make all kinds of stupid noises. It's never been turned on. I prefer music.

 

[firecadet613]

Exactly. I have a car with better performance than I ever dreamed I would. Plus it can be used to carry stuff in the back or seat 5 people.

Towing? I have a Dodge 2500 Turbodiesel for towing. I would never even consider putting a hitch on any of our other vehicles.

EVs are not for everyone. They should not be mandated. That does not mean that because you don't want one that nobody does.

Very true. For that kind of cash, I'd buy a Vette (I'd have one but that entails building a garage as I'm not parking anything outside).

I'll be curious to hear about your long term experience...I know quite a few that have Tesla's and they think they are all that. I'm not a fan in part due to their cult like following and frankly, they are not that nice on the inside. My Ram is much nicer...

 

[BehindBlueI's]

One thing that seems missing from the thinking of many, the acknowledgment that electric prices will not remain what they are and as EV’s burden the system increasing demand prices will rise sharply.

Remember when diesel was half the price of gasoline…

I remember when gasoline was half the price of gasoline...

 

[Ingomike]

I remember when gasoline was half the price of gasoline...

I remember when gasoline was a quarter the price of gasoline...

 

[Ingomike]

Senators raise questions about EV mandates and subsidies going to China

“My problem is with an administration whose crusade is to convert everyone over to an EV regardless of where the battery came from,” Sen. Joe Manchin, D-W.Va., said.

justthenews.com

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

I remember when gasoline was half the price of gasoline...

I remember when the electric companies would actually provide services to encourage customers to consume more electricity.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

Well, maybe Tesla should do what Ford did and pump fake V8-ness through the sound system.

Dodge plans to. And simulate a transmission with shift points.

Honestly, I think it may be a smart play to at least have it as an option for Dodge's market. Obviously some folks are fine with the sterile roller coaster launch of an EV, but others enjoy the total experience and want the sound, the non-linear feel, etc. I still enjoy shifting my own gears even though I know it's not 'better' in any metric other than fun and feelz.

EVs are going to be tough on motor sports, though. I've heard a lot of tracks are banning them due to the fire risk, both because insurance is higher and because the hotter fire can damage the track surface. At least that's the concern, I've no idea if it's a valid concern or not. Another forum I frequent has some racers and the general consensus is EVs are fast AF but only for a few passes then they need a long nap time to cool the battery enough for another full send without nanny mode reducing the draw and damaging it.