The Official Hot Rod Thread - Part 4: Burnouts for Distance

[jeffsqartan]

After some more thought I have a question. Does it still have the stock drive shaft and companion flange that bolts to the pinion? If so when you removed it previously did you mark it so it bolted back on in the same place?

Here's why I ask. Most of those flanges allow the driveshaft to bolt on in 8 different positions and potentially could cause a vibration if not indexed to the same position. Second, I worked on a pick up some time back that had a drivetrain vibration that got worse as speed increased. Ended up finding the companion flange was cracked in the yoke for the U joint. It allowed the needle bearings in the U joint to be damaged. Had to replace the U joint & flange then had it rebalanced. So you're going to have it out, might as well give it a look

Vibration happens even when sitting still, so driveshaft is out of play there
Also, shaft has been rebalanced in the last couple years. I think I did it last year cause I noticed one of the joints was a little on the stiff side. Had them check it out just to be sure.

 

[churchmouse]

That guy probably feels like the guy who bought Tom Brady's "last" touchdown football.

I'm sorry but I can't help but laugh at people with stupid money doing stupid things.

And on a suspended license.

 

[churchmouse]

Vibration happens even when sitting still, so driveshaft is out of play there
Also, shaft has been rebalanced in the last couple years. I think I did it last year cause I noticed one of the joints was a little on the stiff side. Had them check it out just to be sure.

If it is setting still it’s engine related. Balancer to flywheel.
I took it was under power.

 

[Jaybird1980]

Can you interchange the bearing/bushing, assuming that all the diameters and depths are right of course? I never have liked open bearings in non-greasable locations. Of course, I'm assuming that all pilot bearings are open since the only one I have experience with was open.

In SBC the bushing and bearings are interchangeable. I would think the same would be true for Ford.

I know the last time I got one it was kind of a chore to find a bronze bushing that a magnet wouldn't stick to. Finally found an actual sintered bronze one at O'Reilly's.

 

[jeffsqartan]

If it is setting still it’s engine related. Balancer to flywheel.
I took it was under power.

Nope. Sitting still with the car in gear or in neutral. Clutch in or out. Doesn't matter. Rev it up to 3500 and it vibrates wildly.
Unless the transmission is out of the car, in which case it doesn't vibrate at all. - Please note, even though the transmission is removed, the clutch, flywheel, and bellhousing are still installed.

 

[churchmouse]

Nope. Sitting still with the car in gear or in neutral. Clutch in or out. Doesn't matter. Rev it up to 3500 and it vibrates wildly.
Unless the transmission is out of the car, in which case it doesn't vibrate at all. - Please note, even though the transmission is removed, the clutch, flywheel, and bellhousing are still installed.

Yes but you have lost the 3rd point in the mounts. Not ridgedly tied to the chassis so that might be a clue.
It has to be in the engine. I can’t figure the bushing in this scenario.
But check it because we are all diagnostic maniacs over the internet.
Unless the Ford mounts to the bell house like a Tri-5 Chevy.

 

[jeffsqartan]

Yes but you have lost the 3rd point in the mounts. Not ridgedly tied to the chassis so that might be a clue.
It has to be in the engine. I can’t figure the bushing in this scenario.
But check it because we are all diagnostic maniacs over the internet.
Unless the Ford mounts to the bell house like a Tri-5 Chevy.

It does appear that the T-5 mounts to my 302 the same as a Tri-5 Chevy.
6 bolts in the bellhousing to the engine, 4 bolts in the transmission to the bellhousing.
When I did my test last year, we only removed the four bolts and pulled the transmission out. I found a picture of one online bolted up without the transmission in place. This is how I tested it.

 

[thunderchicken]

Vibration happens even when sitting still, so driveshaft is out of play there
Also, shaft has been rebalanced in the last couple years. I think I did it last year cause I noticed one of the joints was a little on the stiff side. Had them check it out just to be sure.

Throw out bearing or a clutch finger?? Maybe.
I'm starting to think it could be an internal engine issue.
But as Churchmouse said without the trans in the third mounting point isn't being used.
Rubber or urethane engine & trans mounts?
Not sure urethane absorbs vibration quite as well as rubber.
You don't have the exhaust mounted solid to the chassis in any way do you? Or maybe headers that rub on the front K member or steering shaft?

I too was kind of thinking it was worse when driving.

 

[jeffsqartan]

Throw out bearing or a clutch finger?? Maybe.
I'm starting to think it could be an internal engine issue.
But as Churchmouse said without the trans in the third mounting point isn't being used.
Rubber or urethane engine & trans mounts?
Not sure urethane absorbs vibration quite as well as rubber.
You don't have the exhaust mounted solid to the chassis in any way do you? Or maybe headers that rub on the front K member or steering shaft?

I too was kind of thinking it was worse when driving.

I really gotta get one of you guys to take a ride in this thing so you can feel what I'm talking about. It would make way more, and at the same time way less, sense.

I wanna say I used those red urethane mounts when I replaced them. But it had some super worn out factory bushings when I did it and it didn't change the vibration. I also changed out the mount from the trans to the crossmember - used a factory mount.

I can't think of anywhere that the exhaust is solid mounted to the chassis. Before I pull the transmission this next time, I'll pull the exhaust off and see if it still does it. It's got shorty headers and I've never seen anything touching up front.

Also, it's had three throwout bearings in it, with the most recent one put in last year.
And I can rule out clutch fingers because the vibration was present before and after a brand new clutch change.

I have replaced every possible moving part except for internal engine components.
The pilot bearing is still a possibility, because even though we replaced it, the input shaft was screwed up and my redneck "fix" may have destroyed the brand new pilot bearing I put in.
So when I swapped to a brand new input shaft last year, it wouldn't have mattered because the pilot bearing was already toast.

Which of course means I may have toasted another friggen input shaft.... We'll find.

Someone is coming to get the Mountaineer tonight so I can put the car in the garage. Of course I'll be in Terre Haute for two days, so I can't get back to working on it until Thursday night. But I plan on it being a longgg night. No wife or kid at home to stop me.

 

[Jaybird1980]

I really gotta get one of you guys to take a ride in this thing so you can feel what I'm talking about. It would make way more, and at the same time way less, sense.

I wanna say I used those red urethane mounts when I replaced them. But it had some super worn out factory bushings when I did it and it didn't change the vibration. I also changed out the mount from the trans to the crossmember - used a factory mount.

I can't think of anywhere that the exhaust is solid mounted to the chassis. Before I pull the transmission this next time, I'll pull the exhaust off and see if it still does it. It's got shorty headers and I've never seen anything touching up front.

Also, it's had three throwout bearings in it, with the most recent one put in last year.
And I can rule out clutch fingers because the vibration was present before and after a brand new clutch change.

I have replaced every possible moving part except for internal engine components.
The pilot bearing is still a possibility, because even though we replaced it, the input shaft was screwed up and my redneck "fix" may have destroyed the brand new pilot bearing I put in.
So when I swapped to a brand new input shaft last year, it wouldn't have mattered because the pilot bearing was already toast.

Which of course means I may have toasted another friggen input shaft.... We'll find.

Someone is coming to get the Mountaineer tonight so I can put the car in the garage. Of course I'll be in Terre Haute for two days, so I can't get back to working on it until Thursday night. But I plan on it being a longgg night. No wife or kid at home to stop me.

Don't forget the PBR, you're going to need it Thursday night.

 

[thunderchicken]

I really gotta get one of you guys to take a ride in this thing so you can feel what I'm talking about. It would make way more, and at the same time way less, sense.

I wanna say I used those red urethane mounts when I replaced them. But it had some super worn out factory bushings when I did it and it didn't change the vibration. I also changed out the mount from the trans to the crossmember - used a factory mount.

I can't think of anywhere that the exhaust is solid mounted to the chassis. Before I pull the transmission this next time, I'll pull the exhaust off and see if it still does it. It's got shorty headers and I've never seen anything touching up front.

Also, it's had three throwout bearings in it, with the most recent one put in last year.
And I can rule out clutch fingers because the vibration was present before and after a brand new clutch change.

I have replaced every possible moving part except for internal engine components.
The pilot bearing is still a possibility, because even though we replaced it, the input shaft was screwed up and my redneck "fix" may have destroyed the brand new pilot bearing I put in.
So when I swapped to a brand new input shaft last year, it wouldn't have mattered because the pilot bearing was already toast.

Which of course means I may have toasted another friggen input shaft.... We'll find.

Someone is coming to get the Mountaineer tonight so I can put the car in the garage. Of course I'll be in Terre Haute for two days, so I can't get back to working on it until Thursday night. But I plan on it being a longgg night. No wife or kid at home to stop me.

Well the super worn out original engine mounts could have been contributing to the vibration by being worn out. You replaced them with urethane (red= probably energy suspension) which due to their more solid nature will give a more solid mount feel with many of the vibrations. Just saying they aren't as smooth as rubber but are better for performance.
Pilot bearing/input shaft is still a possibility due to the hillbilly engineering (no offense just what I call such modifications even though I have made many of such) done to the input shaft.
I'm not saying you need to pull the exhaust off, I hate suggesting extra work for nothing. But just give a thorough look from multiple angles to make sure you don't have a header tube touching the k member or a pipe on a subframe connector etc.
Does this one have a turbo set up on it?
May seem like a dumb question but maybe we are missing something simple. If it goes away on acceleration, could it have a slight misfire? Worn plug or arching plug wire? You can check plug wires easily with a spray bottle of water while it's running (slightly lower light helps).


Could just throw motor plates on it and pretend it's supposed to feel that way
^sarcasm^

 

[jeffsqartan]

Don't forget the PBR, you're going to need it Thursday night.

Wife bought a case of those red/white/blue Smirnoffs. Guess I'll throw that in the garage fridge and go to town.

 

[thunderchicken]

Don't forget the PBR, you're going to need it Thursday night.

Party at Jeff's.
Dang, I have to work Thursday night

 

[churchmouse]

It does appear that the T-5 mounts to my 302 the same as a Tri-5 Chevy.
6 bolts in the bellhousing to the engine, 4 bolts in the transmission to the bellhousing.
When I did my test last year, we only removed the four bolts and pulled the transmission out. I found a picture of one online bolted up without the transmission in place. This is how I tested it.

View attachment 198538

Actually no. The Tri-5 rear mounts are to the bell housing. No cross member.
Your rear mount is a cross member (as I see no mounts on the bell housing to the chassis.) So that is what I am referring to. Easy to get confused reading posts.

 

[Jaybird1980]

Wife bought a case of those red/white/blue Smirnoffs. Guess I'll throw that in the garage fridge and go to town.

Damn, that may actually make me want to drink the PBR.

 

[jeffsqartan]

Well the super worn out original engine mounts could have been contributing to the vibration by being worn out. You replaced them with urethane (red= probably energy suspension) which due to their more solid nature will give a more solid mount feel with many of the vibrations. Just saying they aren't as smooth as rubber but are better for performance.
Pilot bearing/input shaft is still a possibility due to the hillbilly engineering (no offense just what I call such modifications even though I have made many of such) done to the input shaft.
I'm not saying you need to pull the exhaust off, I hate suggesting extra work for nothing. But just give a thorough look from multiple angles to make sure you don't have a header tube touching the k member or a pipe on a subframe connector etc.
Does this one have a turbo set up on it?
May seem like a dumb question but maybe we are missing something simple. If it goes away on acceleration, could it have a slight misfire? Worn plug or arching plug wire? You can check plug wires easily with a spray bottle of water while it's running (slightly lower light helps).


Could just throw motor plates on it and pretend it's supposed to feel that way
^sarcasm^

nonono, I replaced the engine mounts with OEM engine mounts.
I replaced the transmission crossmember-to-chassis mounts with red urethane ones.
I replaced the transmission-to-crossmember mount with an OEM style mount.

No offense on the hillbilly engineering. I know what I am at heart lmao.

The exhaust has to come off for me to get the transmission out, and that's coming out so I might as well see what happens if I pull the exhaust off and leave the transmission in.

No turbo, yet. That's where this all originated. It's turning into a cluster, but oh whale haha. I bought that Mountaineer with plans to put a cam in it and utilize the better heads to make better power with a turbo. Then I found out it has hypereutectic pistons. The engine in the Mustang theoretically has forged pistons, but I didn't want to re-use it because I thought something was wrong with the engine because of this vibration I've had for the past few years.
But then I found notes the other night that suggested the vibration went away when the transmission was removed. I thought it was the input shaft, but after swapping in a new shaft that didn't fix it. However, there's a good possibility that I have a bad pilot bearing in there. It's probably trashed my input shaft if so, but if a pilot bearing and input shaft fixes my vibration, then I've got a good engine with forged pistons that I can use for boost.

I think the pilot bearing makes sense. Remember how I said that sometimes I can get lucky when shifting and the transmission won't vibrate? Wouldn't it make sense that, 99% of the time, the input shaft is slightly out of place because of the pilot bearing not keeping it in perfect alignment. This screws with the clutch placement and causes the entire thing to vibrate.
But then 1% of the time when shifting, the input shaft lands in perfect alignment and nothing vibrates. The second I touch the clutch pedal it goes out of alignment again and the vibration comes back.

It's at least worth looking into. I didn't realize how fragile pilot bearings were, so I could have very easily screwed that one up years ago because my input shaft was already boogered up. And now that I have a new shaft in there, the pilot bearing is still messed up and the cycle continues. At least now I know what I'm looking for, so if there's scoring on the input shaft I know to just replace it with another at the same time I replace my pilot bearing.

 

[jeffsqartan]

Actually no. The Tri-5 rear mounts are to the bell housing. No cross member.
Your rear mount is a cross member (as I see no mounts on the bell housing to the chassis.) So that is what I am referring to. Easy to get confused reading posts.

Ohhhhhh that's interesting. I didn't realize that when looking at the Tri-5 stuff.
Yup, this DOES have a crossmember haha.

 

[jeffsqartan]

Damn, that may actually make me want to drink the PBR.

I'm just not a beer guy.... unless it comes from a keg. For whatever reason, cold keg beer is great.
Any other beer you give me will go bad or get shotgunned.

 

[jeffsqartan]

Party at Jeff's.
Dang, I have to work Thursday night

There's a good chance the party carries over to Friday night if you wanna swing by haha

 

[churchmouse]

Well the super worn out original engine mounts could have been contributing to the vibration by being worn out. You replaced them with urethane (red= probably energy suspension) which due to their more solid nature will give a more solid mount feel with many of the vibrations. Just saying they aren't as smooth as rubber but are better for performance.
Pilot bearing/input shaft is still a possibility due to the hillbilly engineering (no offense just what I call such modifications even though I have made many of such) done to the input shaft.
I'm not saying you need to pull the exhaust off, I hate suggesting extra work for nothing. But just give a thorough look from multiple angles to make sure you don't have a header tube touching the k member or a pipe on a subframe connector etc.
Does this one have a turbo set up on it?
May seem like a dumb question but maybe we are missing something simple. If it goes away on acceleration, could it have a slight misfire? Worn plug or arching plug wire? You can check plug wires easily with a spray bottle of water while it's running (slightly lower light helps).


Could just throw motor plates on it and pretend it's supposed to feel that way
^sarcasm^

Uh....hey dude done call me a hill billy...

I am/was and always will be the king of bailing wire. It has gotten me home many times.