The Official Hot Rod Thread - Part 4: Burnouts for Distance

[femurphy77]

We built a mold for the fan shroud on the second generation Acura NSX. The Honda engineers nitpicked every detail of that part. We must have made 20 engineering changes to the mold. And the changes were crazy. Changing the angle of ribs from 3 degrees to 5 degrees. Sent it back and changed them to 2 degrees. Changing radii from a half mm to 1.5mm. You'd think this simple fan shroud was going to Mars. Honda engineers are usually really good at getting things right on the first try but on this job, they were all over the place.

Then I ran across this article and it all made sense...


2016 Acura NSX Burns To The Ground During ‘Ring Testing: Update



You can even see a nicely charred fan shroud in some of the pics...

I guess I could see why they were trying to eek out every last bit of airflow.

The ones on YouTube usually involve some rich wannabe continually flipping the throttle until the turbo(s) are glowing red hot and then ignite something within the engine compartment. An untimely death at the hands of a moron is never a good thing.

 

[gregkl]

We built a mold for the fan shroud on the second generation Acura NSX. The Honda engineers nitpicked every detail of that part. We must have made 20 engineering changes to the mold. And the changes were crazy. Changing the angle of ribs from 3 degrees to 5 degrees. Sent it back and changed them to 2 degrees. Changing radii from a half mm to 1.5mm. You'd think this simple fan shroud was going to Mars. Honda engineers are usually really good at getting things right on the first try but on this job, they were all over the place.

Then I ran across this article and it all made sense...


2016 Acura NSX Burns To The Ground During ‘Ring Testing: Update



You can even see a nicely charred fan shroud in some of the pics...



I guess I could see why they were trying to eek out every last bit of airflow.

I know this all too well. Most people have zero idea of what goes into engineering a part for the OEM. We also do fan shrouds.

And a lot of lighting components. It cracks me up when I see people take perfectly good OEM headlight or taillight assemblies off their vehicles and replace them with crap aftermarket stuff.

This is the epitome of burning dollar bills. You take a highly engineered assembly using very specific resins built to very tight tolerances, that you paid for when you bought the vehicle, then spend money on subpar parts to replace them.

 

[ChristianPatriot]

I know this all too well. Most people have zero idea of what goes into engineering a part for the OEM. We also do fan shrouds.

And a lot of lighting components. It cracks me up when I see people take perfectly good OEM headlight or taillight assemblies off their vehicles and replace them with crap aftermarket stuff.

This is the epitome of burning dollar bills. You take a highly engineered assembly using very specific resins built to very tight tolerances, that you paid for when you bought the vehicle, then spend money on subpar parts to replace them.

But they look cool though

 

[gregkl]

But they look cool though

I'm too old. I like the looks of the OEM most of the time over aftermarket. Though I had a Miata once and I removed the lens and painted the bezel inside. I thought that made them look better.

But they were still the OEM headlights.

 

[thunderchicken]

I know this all too well. Most people have zero idea of what goes into engineering a part for the OEM. We also do fan shrouds.

And a lot of lighting components. It cracks me up when I see people take perfectly good OEM headlight or taillight assemblies off their vehicles and replace them with crap aftermarket stuff.

This is the epitome of burning dollar bills. You take a highly engineered assembly using very specific resins built to very tight tolerances, that you paid for when you bought the vehicle, then spend money on subpar parts to replace them.

While I get what you are saying and tend to agree, especially with cheap lighting assemblies. However, it could be argued that many OEM products such as headlight assemblies aren't as good as some aftermarket options due to gov't regulations. Just like anything "mil- spec" it's a minimum standard. As an example our headlights must project a certain percentage of light upward to illuminate street signs/highway signs.

 

[femurphy77]

While I get what you are saying and tend to agree, especially with cheap lighting assemblies. However, it could be argued that many OEM products such as headlight assemblies aren't as good as some aftermarket options due to gov't regulations. Just like anything "mil- spec" it's a minimum standard. As an example our headlights must project a certain percentage of light upward to illuminate street signs/highway signs.

Wish I could find a decent one piece headlight option for our 89 GT. OE and OE replacements didn't fit the aftermarket "bumper" so I researched aftermarket and bought some HIGHLY rated aftermarket one piece lights for it. LOVE the look but I'm guessing an old Bic lighter has better light output and dispersal. The adjusting knobs are just that, knobs. Zero affect on the light beam. Oh well as long as they look good and we get home before dark it's all good.

 

[thunderchicken]

Wish I could find a decent one piece headlight option for our 89 GT. OE and OE replacements didn't fit the aftermarket "bumper" so I researched aftermarket and bought some HIGHLY rated aftermarket one piece lights for it. LOVE the look but I'm guessing an old Bic lighter has better light output and dispersal. The adjusting knobs are just that, knobs. Zero affect on the light beam. Oh well as long as they look good and we get home before dark it's all good.

What was the problem finding headlights to fit into the "bumper"? Did the factory fiberglass header panel fit into the bumper assembly?
From my recollection those knobs are only supposed to angle the assembly up/dn or L/R but they won't change the beam itself

 

[femurphy77]

What was the problem finding headlights to fit into the "bumper"? Did the factory fiberglass header panel fit into the bumper assembly?
From my recollection those knobs are only supposed to angle the assembly up/dn or L/R but they won't change the beam itself

The mounting holes weren't right in the bumper. Trying to "adjust" them only made it worse, it was a bad mold issue with the manufacturer. You are correct that the knobs only adjust up/down, left/right but there was zero movement. Again, a manufacturing issue not surprising given the "Made in China" stamps on the damn things. I guess all the positive reviews was a result of their appearance and yes, they look great but if you actually want to use them for their intended purpose, they're useless.

 

[avboiler11]

Bone stock…Not too shabby considering the LF4 specs 464/445 at the crank.

Not bone stock any more….

K&N filters, downpipes, fuel cam, flex fuel kit, new plugs, E blend tune and E48.

First HPDE is April 10th…

 

[ChristianPatriot]

Not bone stock any more….

K&N filters, downpipes, fuel cam, flex fuel kit, new plugs, E blend tune and E48.

First HPDE is April 10th…

Not bad for a 6-banger

 

[jeffsqartan]

This 98 Mountaineer can bite me... We still don't have the engine or transmission out. I honestly think I'm gonna have to just crank on it from 6-whenever to get it done one night. Have been having some friends come over and help with it. Neither of them have really pulled an engine before, so it's a learning curve for them both and I'm learning as a "Project Manager." They've been here like three times and we only get 2, maybe 3 hours into it before they leave. I honestly think the start-stop has been an issue. I can't get into a groove. Normally, I'd start at 5 or 6 and crank on it until 1 or 2 am and it was done.

New rear bars are in on the convertible. Gonna see if I can make the back seat from the Notch fit in the vert temporarily. Finding an actual back seat for these things is hard as all get out. Almost nothing on Marketplace and very few options on Ebay. Gonna cost me $300+ shipping from two different sellers. Probably gonna have to get un-matching seats, too.

I really wish I had realized what I was selling a couple years ago. Had no idea this stuff was so rare/valuable.

 

[femurphy77]

This 98 Mountaineer can bite me... We still don't have the engine or transmission out. I honestly think I'm gonna have to just crank on it from 6-whenever to get it done one night. Have been having some friends come over and help with it. Neither of them have really pulled an engine before, so it's a learning curve for them both and I'm learning as a "Project Manager." They've been here like three times and we only get 2, maybe 3 hours into it before they leave. I honestly think the start-stop has been an issue. I can't get into a groove. Normally, I'd start at 5 or 6 and crank on it until 1 or 2 am and it was done.

New rear bars are in on the convertible. Gonna see if I can make the back seat from the Notch fit in the vert temporarily. Finding an actual back seat for these things is hard as all get out. Almost nothing on Marketplace and very few options on Ebay. Gonna cost me $300+ shipping from two different sellers. Probably gonna have to get un-matching seats, too.

I really wish I had realized what I was selling a couple years ago. Had no idea this stuff was so rare/valuable.

WTF????? 2-3 hours should be plenty of time to pull an engine with help. Even with help that is essentially useless as there's always "something" they're qualified for: "crawl under there and get that socket I dropped" or "clean up that anti freeze I spilled" or my favorite "hand me another beer"!

And thanks for the heads up on the back seat! I'm thinking about pulling mine out and if I do I'll keep it now!

 

[gregkl]

I honestly think the start-stop has been an issue. I can't get into a groove. Normally, I'd start at 5 or 6 and crank on it until 1 or 2 am and it was done.

I was just thinking about this today on a macro level. Seems like life goes that way. At work you get into a groove and then comes a holiday. Then a vacation. Then sickness. Then a pandemic. Today I was planning on trying to make some progress on my ever increasing workload and the power at the office went out.

Sheesh. I went to the range and shot some test loads.

 

[femurphy77]

I was just thinking about this today on a macro level. Seems like life goes that way. At work you get into a groove and then comes a holiday. Then a vacation. Then sickness. Then a pandemic. Today I was planning on trying to make some progress on my ever increasing workload and the power at the office went out.

Sheesh. I went to the range and shot some test loads.

Shamefully admitting that for the first time in a LONG time I actually felt productive at work today.

 

[jeffsqartan]

WTF????? 2-3 hours should be plenty of time to pull an engine with help. Even with help that is essentially useless as there's always "something" they're qualified for: "crawl under there and get that socket I dropped" or "clean up that anti freeze I spilled" or my favorite "hand me another beer"!

And thanks for the heads up on the back seat! I'm thinking about pulling mine out and if I do I'll keep it now!

Yeah man this is probably the most frustrating engine pull ever. A bunch of stuff was just hard to get to. The downpipe bolts were completely rusted through to where you couldn't get a nut on them, so we had to cut the pipe. I don't have great tools for that, so we probably spent nearly 2 hours cutting through it with a death wheel and sawzall. The engine mounts would have been off earlier but without taking the exhaust off I needed a 3/8 knuckle that I didn't own, so had to go buy one of those.
The transmission bolts are hilariously tight to the body, so I made the decision we were gonna pull the trans first. Once we drop the crossmember and let the trans down a little, we should have way better access to those bolts. I want the trans anyway, so why bother leaving it in, ya know?
I'm sure my, hold on where's the purple, highly organized garage is helping things.

It's really weird, too - every time my buddy comes over, I suddenly have ZERO preparedness. It's like I forget what I'm doing, where literally everything is, and how I'm supposed to do things. I have no idea what is going on, but it's leading me to frustration city.

I just want my car to make happy choo-choo noises!

 

[thunderchicken]

Yeah man this is probably the most frustrating engine pull ever. A bunch of stuff was just hard to get to. The downpipe bolts were completely rusted through to where you couldn't get a nut on them, so we had to cut the pipe. I don't have great tools for that, so we probably spent nearly 2 hours cutting through it with a death wheel and sawzall. The engine mounts would have been off earlier but without taking the exhaust off I needed a 3/8 knuckle that I didn't own, so had to go buy one of those.
The transmission bolts are hilariously tight to the body, so I made the decision we were gonna pull the trans first. Once we drop the crossmember and let the trans down a little, we should have way better access to those bolts. I want the trans anyway, so why bother leaving it in, ya know?
I'm sure my, hold on where's the purple, highly organized garage is helping things.

It's really weird, too - every time my buddy comes over, I suddenly have ZERO preparedness. It's like I forget what I'm doing, where literally everything is, and how I'm supposed to do things. I have no idea what is going on, but it's leading me to frustration city.

I just want my car to make happy choo-choo noises!

You are scrapping the Mountaineer after you get the engine and trans out...right? Cut away at anything you don't need that too rusted to take apart cleanly. There ain't nothin to it but to do it

Sounds to me like you need to just order a pizza, crank up the tunes and get after it until you actually reach the point where you need help.
Or you could straighten up your garage and lay out most of the tools you anticipate needing and have a friend be the gopher while you get things tore apart down below. If he has any idea what he is doing maybe he can work on removing some stuff on the top side while you work below?
If it's a motivational issue, I can relate to that. I've lost mine on many occasions

 

[jeffsqartan]

You are scrapping the Mountaineer after you get the engine and trans out...right? Cut away at anything you don't need that too rusted to take apart cleanly. There ain't nothin to it but to do it

Sounds to me like you need to just order a pizza, crank up the tunes and get after it until you actually reach the point where you need help.
Or you could straighten up your garage and lay out most of the tools you anticipate needing and have a friend be the gopher while you get things tore apart down below. If he has any idea what he is doing maybe he can work on removing some stuff on the top side while you work below?
If it's a motivational issue, I can relate to that. I've lost mine on many occasions

Pizza, tunes, and just constant work is where I'm at. Yoinking the trans and engine alone at this point. Which I'm fine with. They wanted some experience on this process and it's just not going well. Not their fault in the slightest.

We have been cutting and removing stuff with no regard to its resale. Like the exhaust. It's just a ton of rust underneath, so every time you look up and smack a wrench on something it rains tetanus down on you. Wearing safety glasses still somehow doesn't solve the issue.

I gotta drain the fluid from the trans, disconnect the lines and wires to it, then drop the crossmember and it should drop down enough for me to get to the engine bolts. Converter nuts are already off. Should be ezpz on the trans jack after that.

Reached out to the head guy at CCRT/MALC and said that I could drop it off at the range to be used for a fighting in/around vehicles course if they wanted. Was gonna scrap to get my money back but I think that is a better use.

 

[Bigtanker]

Ok. This is most cool. How the drive axle on this thing work is amazing. At the 14 min mark then again about 20.

Some of the calipers SPIN with the axle. I'd love to have this explained better.

 

[Bigtanker]

From what they say in the video, (I think).

The inboard set of calipers SPIN when no brakes (turning the steering wheel) are applied. When you turn, that side locks up and a fluid coupler (?) Unlocks that side and allows it to turn.

The axle is a Ford 9" with a spool.

 

[churchmouse]

You are scrapping the Mountaineer after you get the engine and trans out...right? Cut away at anything you don't need that too rusted to take apart cleanly. There ain't nothin to it but to do it

Sounds to me like you need to just order a pizza, crank up the tunes and get after it until you actually reach the point where you need help.
Or you could straighten up your garage and lay out most of the tools you anticipate needing and have a friend be the gopher while you get things tore apart down below. If he has any idea what he is doing maybe he can work on removing some stuff on the top side while you work below?
If it's a motivational issue, I can relate to that. I've lost mine on many occasions

After doing this stuff for decades I have lost any and all desiRe to do what our resident mad scientist is doing so I get it in the motivation issues. Tearing into a crapped out mountaineer is absolutely the last thing I want to do.
One tool you seriously need to help speed this along. A smoke wrench. Watch the monkeys in the scrap yard rip an engine out in 15 minutes. Complete with trans attached.
Stop trying to do a clean job. just rip it out. Throw the rest away.