The Official Hot Rod Thread - Part 4: Burnouts for Distance

[churchmouse]

I can't speak for what a low end of the spectrum Super Pro car would cost to build as I just don't have experience with bracket cars (yet). However I can say that a basic traction control system from Davis Technologies is 10k alone. Ryan Martin so far is pretty much the most dominant man in NP. But there's not shortage of fast cars in that deal either. I'm expecting to see Scott Taylor being more of a challenge this year with his new car purpose built for NPK. The hemi has been king for boosted power for a very long time. I can't say that it's the new configuration (as in hellcat style) more so than modern dressed ignition and fuel injection. Many hemi heads now are solid billet offerings. The other very common set up is the 481x but in either case the dominant player for anything running boost is Pro Line by Allen Johnson. Next would be BME for hemi stuff. Then of course Pat Musi for big cubic inch nitrous. I would say yes probably in the 80k range especially for a boosted set up.

Edit- the SMX is Steve Morris's version of the 481x that Pro Line puts out. One of the biggest differences is the way the coolant passages are designed to keep it cool. I'm sure there's some variation in ports and maybe even valve angle etc. Either way it's an all billet design.

The SMX has a pretty well thought out way of getting the coolant through the block. I like the overall engineering.
Admittedly I am catching up on all of this because it grabbed my attention hard this year. So digging into these new designs is good reading for me.
$10K can build a super pro drive train if you use your head and shop around. The bracket electronic package with cross over and such is salty enough but last I checked a couple of grand gets you in the game.
When I say low end I refer to the minimum ET to run that class. SPro and Pro overlap or they used to. We ran Pro as our car was the fastest Pro car in the lanes so we always left second and ran down the other lane. Way more fun and if you get your light and run your number it’s hard as hell to beat.

 

[thunderchicken]

The SMX has a pretty well thought out way of getting the coolant through the block. I like the overall engineering.
Admittedly I am catching up on all of this because it grabbed my attention hard this year. So digging into these new designs is good reading for me.
$10K can build a super pro drive train if you use your head and shop around. The bracket electronic package with cross over and such is salty enough but last I checked a couple of grand gets you in the game.
When I say low end I refer to the minimum ET to run that class. SPro and Pro overlap or they used to. We ran Pro as our car was the fastest Pro car in the lanes so we always left second and ran down the other lane. Way more fun and if you get your light and run your number it’s hard as hell to beat.

The heads up deal we raced with for many years has suffered from dwindling car counts the last few years. The last couple years they decided to change the rules to try to draw more cars.
The rules are...
.400 Pro Tree
Stock steel roof and quarters
Factory VIN tag
No Billet heads
Meet NHRA safety requirements
Well, they got what they wanted and have drawn some fast cars. 2019 was the first year for these rules. The first year wasn't too bad. Since then a handful of NPK guys have joined in when schedules allowed.
So, we are going to just do a little bracket racing for now. Planning to run Super Pro but not sure how well that's going to work out. We have never done any bracket racing ever. So to start with we are just going to leave the spray off the car and swap out the converter to run it NA. No idea if it's better to dead hook the tire or drop tire size and a numerically lower gear to get more wheel speed. Not sure which way would be more consistent. I keep getting told we can't be competitive unless we run a box and an adjustable long throw trans brake switch and either air or electric shifter. I'm not totally opposed to a box if that's what it takes but don't want to deal with the rest

Edit- trying to run a consistent number could be a challenge for us. We are used to trying to help rotate the Earth every time we we put it in the beams. Haven't made a pass with the right converter in it yet, but am kinda speculating 5.30s-5.40s at the 1/8th.

 

[churchmouse]

The heads up deal we raced with for many years has suffered from dwindling car counts the last few years. The last couple years they decided to change the rules to try to draw more cars.
The rules are...
.400 Pro Tree
Stock steel roof and quarters
Factory VIN tag
No Billet heads
Meet NHRA safety requirements
Well, they got what they wanted and have drawn some fast cars. 2019 was the first year for these rules. The first year wasn't too bad. Since then a handful of NPK guys have joined in when schedules allowed.
So, we are going to just do a little bracket racing for now. Planning to run Super Pro but not sure how well that's going to work out. We have never done any bracket racing ever. So to start with we are just going to leave the spray off the car and swap out the converter to run it NA. No idea if it's better to dead hook the tire or drop tire size and a numerically lower gear to get more wheel speed. Not sure which way would be more consistent. I keep getting told we can't be competitive unless we run a box and an adjustable long throw trans brake switch and either air or electric shifter. I'm not totally opposed to a box if that's what it takes but don't want to deal with the rest

Edit- trying to run a consistent number could be a challenge for us. We are used to trying to help rotate the Earth every time we we put it in the beams. Haven't made a pass with the right converter in it yet, but am kinda speculating 5.30s-5.40s at the 1/8th.

I can see making that jump will take some time to get your car dialed.
Most SPro racers run a cross over box. I find
Them confusing but I never devoted much time to using one. Not sure about the big end shifter as we used a noid and never an issue. Seems they are looking for every angle possible and I get that.
Dead hooking was how my 3 bar car worked best not sure how your chassis will respond. Do
Tire tech has moved forward since we stopped running.
Keep us apprised as you make that move. It will be interesting to ride along.

Brackets were set up to race yourself. Not the other lane.
-Cutting as close as possible to a good light.
-Be consistent and run your number.
-You still have to get there but not out run yourself.

A good race is hard to tell who won from the pilot seat.

 

[thunderchicken]

I can see making that jump will take some time to get your car dialed.
Most SPro racers run a cross over box. I find
Them confusing but I never devoted much time to using one. Not sure about the big end shifter as we used a noid and never an issue. Seems they are looking for every angle possible and I get that.
Dead hooking was how my 3 bar car worked best not sure how your chassis will respond. Do
Tire tech has moved forward since we stopped running.
Keep us apprised as you make that move. It will be interesting to ride along.

Brackets were set up to race yourself. Not the other lane.
-Cutting as close as possible to a good light.
-Be consistent and run your number.
-You still have to get there but not out run yourself.

A good race is hard to tell who won from the pilot seat.

Yeah I know it sounds bad, but I expect to probably have to do the buy back thing for a few races until we see how things start to shake out.
I made a few NA passes at the end of August but we still had the nitrous converter in the car. We only had a 5600 chip in the shift light and as I passed the 330' cone, I never even saw the shift light come on so I figured dang at some point I gotta shift and just went ahead and shifted into high gear. When it is on spray the shift light would normally have a 7600 chip and would come on probably about 100-150' out. Even with the nitrous converter in it, it still went 5.80- 5.84 at the 1/8th at 128-130mph. Let out of it as I passed the 1/8th and coasted/lightly braking tripped the 1/4 beams at 9.58 @ 110mph. It was still pulling but certainly wasn't pulling real hard. On spray it makes somewhere around 1850-1900ish HP. Without spray it makes a little over 1200 HP and weighs a tad over 3,000lbs. Based on that, that's where I speculate it to run 5.30s-5.40s. Obviously won't really know until we get the converter in it and make some laps.

Will definitely share how things go as we venture into this new game

 

[churchmouse]

Yeah I know it sounds bad, but I expect to probably have to do the buy back thing for a few races until we see how things start to shake out.
I made a few NA passes at the end of August but we still had the nitrous converter in the car. We only had a 5600 chip in the shift light and as I passed the 330' cone, I never even saw the shift light come on so I figured dang at some point I gotta shift and just went ahead and shifted into high gear. When it is on spray the shift light would normally have a 7600 chip and would come on probably about 100-150' out. Even with the nitrous converter in it, it still went 5.80- 5.84 at the 1/8th at 128-130mph. Let out of it as I passed the 1/8th and coasted/lightly braking tripped the 1/4 beams at 9.58 @ 110mph. It was still pulling but certainly wasn't pulling real hard. On spray it makes somewhere around 1850-1900ish HP. Without spray it makes a little over 1200 HP and weighs a tad over 3,000lbs. Based on that, that's where I speculate it to run 5.30s-5.40s. Obviously won't really know until we get the converter in it and make some laps.

Will definitely share how things go as we venture into this new game

Yes.
Question???
I think I understand the differences in the converters but School me.
All my converters had the nitrous ballon plate on them.

 

[thunderchicken]

Yes.
Question???
I think I understand the differences in the converters but School me.
All my converters had the nitrous ballon plate on them.

I'm not a transmission man but I will share what I understand and have been told by Coan.
Since the nitrous changes the power band and where it makes peek power it requires a larger converter. The pump side (balloon plate) needs more surface area and a different fin angle to create more pressure. That's achieved with a larger diameter converter (ours is either 10 or 11 inches). Since we're going to run it NA, we need to go to a smaller 9" converter with a less aggressive fin angle on the pump side so the pump has less pressure. Since we are going to run it NA, the nitrous converter makes it lazy getting into the peak power band. At least that's how I understand it anyway.
Otherwise here's what I know about automatic transmissions. The flywheel spins the converter which causes the transmission to do magic s*** and it all comes out through the tail shaft.

 

[churchmouse]

I'm not a transmission man but I will share what I understand and have been told by Coan.
Since the nitrous changes the power band and where it makes peek power it requires a larger converter. The pump side (balloon plate) needs more surface area and a different fin angle to create more pressure. That's achieved with a larger diameter converter (ours is either 10 or 11 inches). Since we're going to run it NA, we need to go to a smaller 9" converter with a less aggressive fin angle on the pump side so the pump has less pressure. Since we are going to run it NA, the nitrous converter makes it lazy getting into the peak power band. At least that's how I understand it anyway.
Otherwise here's what I know about automatic transmissions. The flywheel spins the converter which causes the transmission to do magic s*** and it all comes out through the tail shaft.

In my mind I was on track with what you said and yes......Magic

 

[thunderchicken]

In my mind I was on track with what you said and yes......Magic

Borders on Voodoo

 

[churchmouse]

Borders on Voodoo

When you engage the brake in the second bulb and mat the loud peddle up against the launch limiter…..the lights start down and right on time you release the dragon. That’s when you know Voodoo is real.

 

[thunderchicken]

When you engage the brake in the second bulb and mat the loud peddle up against the launch limiter…..the lights start down and right on time you release the dragon. That’s when you know Voodoo is real.

Yeah man. When the rear squats and the front end come back and you butt is pushed back i to the seat.....you know what I'm talking about

 

[churchmouse]

Yeah man. When the rear squats and the front end come back and you butt is pushed back i to the seat.....you know what I'm talking about

I do miss it so.

 

[JCSR]

 

[Brad69]

My wife now wants to attend a drag racing school!

One will be in Indy in June so I guess $2095 for two days in a super gas car is worth it.

She will be able to get her NHRA and IHRA licenses.

 

[churchmouse]

My wife now wants to attend a drag racing school!

One will be in Indy in June so I guess $2095 for two days in a super gas car is worth it.

She will be able to get her NHRA and IHRA licenses.

Now that is so cool. You may be about to embark on a journey.

 

[Brad69]

She wants to do the factory upgrades on her Super stock.

That will take it from 807 hp/ 707 lbs to 885hp and 800 lbs under factory warranty.

I already priced some Hoosier DOT slicks and front runners.

Dodge brought back the Direct Connection stuff complete with the old logo. Has to be installed by dealer and the prices are decent.

 

[thunderchicken]

My wife now wants to attend a drag racing school!

One will be in Indy in June so I guess $2095 for two days in a super gas car is worth it.

She will be able to get her NHRA and IHRA licenses.

Even after all these years of being involved in racing, I wouldn't mind going to a two day Frank Hawley school. I have no doubt it would be worth it. So are you both taking the class or just her?
Just know, being set back in the seat and launching with the front hoops up is addictive. It could lead to spending money to make upgrades to he Challenger.

 

[thunderchicken]

She wants to do the factory upgrades on her Super stock.

That will take it from 807 hp/ 707 lbs to 885hp and 800 lbs under factory warranty.

I already priced some Hoosier DOT slicks and front runners.

Dodge brought back the Direct Connection stuff complete with the old logo. Has to be installed by dealer and the prices are decent.

Nice

For what it's worth if you are looking at DOT tires, it's almost impossible to beat the M/T Pro radials. Many people absolutely swear by them. But either would be better than true street tires

 

[JCSR]

Nice

For what it's worth if you are looking at DOT tires, it's almost impossible to beat the M/T Pro radials. Many people absolutely swear by them. But either would be better than true street tires

Yes. Radials work great with autos but bias ply is the way to go with a manual.

 

[ChristianPatriot]

She wants to do the factory upgrades on her Super stock.

That will take it from 807 hp/ 707 lbs to 885hp and 800 lbs under factory warranty.

I already priced some Hoosier DOT slicks and front runners.

Dodge brought back the Direct Connection stuff complete with the old logo. Has to be installed by dealer and the prices are decent.

Do those have the rear-end troubles that plagued the Demon’s?

 

[thunderchicken]

Yes. Radials work great with autos but bias ply is the way to go with a manual.

I just know the M/T Pro's are about as close to a true slick as you can get in a DOT radial.
With a bias ply you have to factor in tire growth and how much it will crush & wad up on launch vs a radial really doesn't grow and holds it's shape much more. Works pretty well on a lot of street cars.
Can't give a firsthand account of auto vs manual on either