The election shenanigans thread

[JettaKnight]

You're deflecting.

They aren't complaining about the electronic voting machines, for the most part. They're complaining about mail in ballots with obscenely loose standards to qualifying and counting them, even when the voter has broke the rules.

I do not like generic mail in voting whatsoever.

If you don't have equal faith of both parties in this country, in our elections, bad things will be coming over the horizon. Confidence and faith in our elections need to be a bipartisan issue, and any amount of money is better spent than the alternative that will become inevitable.

Agreed, but it's largely one party, started by one man, that's been making unsubstantiated claims.

For the most part all this brouhaha has been one man who couldn't accept that the country had enough him. (remember a plurality of people voted against him the first time) "No, I didn't lose.. it was ... voter fraud! Yeah, that's ticket - voter fraud!"



Despite the fact that courts all over this fair nation has looked into it (except in the courts where he quietl... Nevermind. I just remembered what this echo chamber is all about.

 

[Tombs]

I do not like generic mail in voting whatsoever.


Agreed, but it's largely one party, started by one man, that's been making unsubstantiated claims.

For the most part all this brouhaha has been one man who couldn't accept that the country had enough him. (remember a plurality of people voted against him the first time) "No, I didn't lose.. it was ... voter fraud! Yeah, that's ticket - voter fraud!"



Despite the fact that courts all over this fair nation has looked into it (except in the courts where he quietl... Nevermind. I just remembered what this echo chamber is all about.

... One man? You really need to recheck your perception of the situation.

It's closer to half the country, than one man. Even a non-trivial amount of democrats are questioning things.

MSN

"lol we recounted until we won by 1 vote"

Also it's not non-partisan to say "but only one party has an issue!" Yeah, one party having an issue with the vote being sketchy is all that's necessary. You have to resolve it if you want this political experiment to remain successful.

 

[jamil]

When it comes to the damage that can be done by using dark money to put fellow travelers in what had been hohum state level offices like AG and SoS, we were unaware and badly outplayed

It gets fixed via the same method it got broke, long march through the institutions, and it doesn't get fixed overnight. Or just skip directly to the fourth box, but I don't think you'll be able to work from home and have pizza delivered

I'm thinking that people are going to have to self-sort. Liberty minded folks to the red states. Bat **** crazy lefties to the blue states. I don't see a reconciliation at this point.

Good news is, progressives don't **** for children. Red states will grow their population. Blue states will just be a bunch of shriveled up botox infused wreches in a few generations. And then people in the red states can move in and take over.

 

[jamil]

Put this in the political joke thread because it is.

Schumer Wants Senate Republicans to Work with Democrats

Chuck Schumer wants Republicans to stop embracing Donald Trump and work with the Senate Democrats on bipartisan initiatives.

www.breitbart.com

Jamil wants Democrat Senators to **** all the way off.

 

[jamil]

Wanna bring back the poll tax or literacy requirements?

I mean. not so much the poll tax, but a good case could be made for something like the latter. Like you should at least be able to fill out a ballot that can be processed. If you can't do that, you're probably too stupid to vote.

As someone who loves voting early - f*** that.


How could that ever be abused?

Yeah, I can just see the Gateway Pundit headline, "Millions of votes thrown in the trash because election officials claim they didn't count them in time."

The wilder claims were unsubstantiated. There's some smells otherwise. Why not address that instead of the nonsense Kraken bull ****.

 

[jamil]

... One man? You really need to recheck your perception of the situation.

It's closer to half the country, than one man. Even a non-trivial amount of democrats are questioning things.

MSN

"lol we recounted until we won by 1 vote"

Also it's not non-partisan to say "but only one party has an issue!" Yeah, one party having an issue with the vote being sketchy is all that's necessary. You have to resolve it if you want this political experiment to remain successful.

I think he's of the mind that people would trust elections if Donald Trump hadn't made those claims. As if the Time Magazine Cabal piece describing what rich people did to assure the outcome they wanted.

 

[Tombs]

I think he's of the mind that people would trust elections if Donald Trump hadn't made those claims.

Then he doesn't understand WHY people feel that way.

I remember the time magazine coming out saying MADAM PRESIDENT, before the election was even over.

 

[jamil]

I do not like generic mail in voting whatsoever.


Agreed, but it's largely one party, started by one man, that's been making unsubstantiated claims.

For the most part all this brouhaha has been one man who couldn't accept that the country had enough him. (remember a plurality of people voted against him the first time) "No, I didn't lose.. it was ... voter fraud! Yeah, that's ticket - voter fraud!"



Despite the fact that courts all over this fair nation has looked into it (except in the courts where he quietl... Nevermind. I just remembered what this echo chamber is all about.

C'mon. It wasn't that the whole country. More people voted for DJT than any other president in history before that point. It's just that Biden got more, and in the key states that mattered. A large reason Biden got more is that big tech and Lincoln Project Republicans, and the media and all the establishment powers that be stuck their thumbs on the scales.

They changed election rules to favor democrats. Hell, the media bias alone gives Democrats a large advantage. Then throw in the rest of the cabal? Does democracy really look like a cabal working to disenfranchise half the country?

With "legal" ballot harvesting in combination with mail-in ballots, Republicans will likely never win at the national level. At least not until they figure out how to exploit mail in ballots to work for Republicans to counter what Democrats have done. That's not actually democracy either. Elections shouldn't depend on who is better at exploiting the weaknesses in the process.

Ron DeSantis showed a way. Clean up the voter rolls. Make ballot harvesting illegal. Basically take away all the exploits. Florida has mail-in ballots. Their results were submitted in a timely manner. But I'm not sure there's anything that can be done at a national level. Get as many America first Republican governors elected as possible. Get them to fix their election process like Florida did to remove the exploits.

 

[Timjoebillybob]

I don't think that it's more apparent than problems with paper ballots. I'm not denying that there are problems with the voting tech. You seem to deny it. And that's mostly the cause of my post.

But there are problems with the tech. Maybe the tech you've used all along is just fine. Whatever AZ was using wasn't. Circumstances leave a lot of room for skeptical people to be skeptical.

But, the solution suggesting paper ballots comes with problems as well, which is why I come to the same conclusion. I don't think it's clear that it would solve the problem. I don't think counting paper ballots is particularly challenging. Well, if we don't mind hanging chads. Why would it be that expensive? I mean messicans can count. Right? Seriously, the point is, I don't think the dollar cost makes that nonviable. I just don't think it's gonna solve it. If anything it would tend to shove the cheating more under the table. At least we can take a whiff of something that smells an awful lot like cheating.

I believe for a lot of the problems in Maricopa Co they were using paper. Well partially anyway. I think the machines they were using you enter your choices, it prints out a paper ballot with your selections, which you then check and if correct, put it in the tabulator.

 

[Ingomike]

Get as many America first Republican governors, SOS, and AG’s elected as possible. Get them to fix their election process like Florida did to remove the exploits.

FIFY

 

[Ingomike]

I believe for a lot of the problems in Maricopa Co they were using paper. Well partially anyway. I think the machines they were using you enter your choices, it prints out a paper ballot with your selections, which you then check and if correct, put it in the tabulator.

Saw allegations that the paper provided in republican areas was out of dimensions to fit the machines. It is not one thing, it is dozens in every election and they all go one way. That is not coincidence…

 

[Timjoebillybob]

Saw allegations that the paper provided in republican areas was out of dimensions to fit the machines. It is not one thing, it is dozens in every election and they all go one way. That is not coincidence…

I didn't see that one. It could be.

 

[jamil]

I believe for a lot of the problems in Maricopa Co they were using paper. Well partially anyway. I think the machines they were using you enter your choices, it prints out a paper ballot with your selections, which you then check and if correct, put it in the tabulator.

Sure. Many systems are like that. that's how it is where I voted. You make your choices. Print them out. Verify the paper ballot. Have the poll workers sign it. And then I put the ballot through the counter, and got confirmation from the machine that it counted it. No problems. But the people advocating paper ballots weren't talking using paper for that really. I took it that they want paper all the way through. No tech.

In Maricopa county the counting machines were the problem. The paper ballots can still be counted manually because the ballots are human readable as well as machine readable. Or, they could repair the machines or bring in new ones and run all the ballots through again.

But that's the problem. After the voter leaves, the integrity of the poll workers is put to the test. Are they activists? Don't know. Will they put the republican ballots through the counter? Don't know. Human error and malicious poll workers is why we want to use leverage tech to do things like counting. But then the people who make the tech and use it have to be trusted too.

I think the best system would be one that is as transparent as possible where people who might be activists can't corrupt it. And that system is made of unobtainium. So maybe open source software and open schematics of hardware could get us closer.

 

[Cameramonkey]

I'm for not allowing anyone to vote unless they are a property owner as intended by the original founders.
Democrats would lose massively every election everywhere.

Edit:
I'd be happy if just those who actually pay taxes in got to vote and them only.
Don't pay in you don't get to vote.

This. You dont get to vote unless you actually have skin in the game.

Imagine this. I decide to take you and your 4 buddies out for dinner. My treat. I'm thinking Outback. Suddenly you and your friends tell me "Sorry, we took a vote. Outback isnt what we want. We want St Elmos. And since it's 4 to 1, we win. You MUST feed us St Elmo's steaks. " That's what today's elections are getting us.

"A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the majority discovers it can vote itself largess out of the public treasury. After that, the majority always votes for the candidate promising the most benefits with the result the democracy collapses because of the loose fiscal policy ensuing, always to be followed by a dictatorship, then a monarchy."

And yes, I understand this is a Constitutional Republic, not a Democracy. But the dems keep pulling the lever for free money.

 

[Cameramonkey]

Sure. Many systems are like that. that's how it is where I voted. You make your choices. Print them out. Verify the paper ballot. Have the poll workers sign it. And then I put the ballot through the counter, and got confirmation from the machine that it counted it. No problems. But the people advocating paper ballots weren't talking using paper for that really. I took it that they want paper all the way through. No tech.

I've never EVER heard that argument. Scantron for the win.

I'm slightly uncomfortable with our new machines.* Yes they appear to be both human and machine readable. But unlike a scantron where the machine readable code is blatantly obvious, these use barcodes. How can I tell that my barcode above "Curasco" doesnt tell the computer "mears"? With the Scantron style bubbles its obvious because *I* shaded that bubble. There is no doubt what my vote is.

I'm only reassured that the wrong barcode is discoverable in a serious audit.

*poll worker inserts blank sheet into their machine that prints the header telling the vote machine what ballot to present on the screen and then they hand you your blank sheet. You insert the sheet into the machine, press the appropriate vote buttons, and after confirmation it prints your votes on the previously (mostly) blank sheet. You see your votes as well as the corresponding barcodes. You insert the freshly printed ballot into the tabulator which counts your votes.

 

[jamil]

Saw allegations that the paper provided in republican areas was out of dimensions to fit the machines. It is not one thing, it is dozens in every election and they all go one way. That is not coincidence…

It's like with Boebert's district. There are only around 330K voters that cast ballots. They're still "counting" and may not have them counted until later this week. I get it. If it were a landslide for one or the other it would be decided quickly. It's close. All the ballots from in-person voting have been counted. Most of the mail in ballots have been counted.

There are still outstanding ballots uncounted. The absentee ballots from military oversees personnel have not yet arrived. Not sure how many of those there are for the CO 3rd district. But there are a couple thousand mail-in ballots outstanding that have to be "cured". And that's what I find so frustrating. Some of the responsibility needs to go on the voter for **** sake!

Their ballots must be received by close of polls on election night. With in person voting, all the verification they do is done at the polls before they vote. Right up to the close of polls. So if you avail yourself of mail in, but you wait until election day to put it in the box, why should they give you so much time to fix it after the election if you got stuff wrong? That just creates new ways to cheat. The deadline should be it. If you do mail-in, do it early enough to get all your fixes in before the deadline.

 

[jamil]

This. You dont get to vote unless you actually have skin in the game.

Imagine this. I decide to take you and your 4 buddies out for dinner. My treat. I'm thinking Outback. Suddenly you and your friends tell me "Sorry, we took a vote. Outback isnt what we want. We want St Elmos. And since it's 4 to 1, we win. You MUST feed us St Elmo's steaks. " That's what today's elections are getting us.

"A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the majority discovers it can vote itself largess out of the public treasury. After that, the majority always votes for the candidate promising the most benefits with the result the democracy collapses because of the loose fiscal policy ensuing, always to be followed by a dictatorship, then a monarchy."

And yes, I understand this is a Constitutional Republic, not a Democracy. But the dems keep pulling the lever for free money.

Nah. Let's go fully in that direction then. You don't think a person who is on welfare doesn't have skin in the game for who is the leader? If it's about skin in the game, maybe only rich people should vote because they make the lion's share of wealth, and consume the most government. I think the only valid case for restricting voting to classes of people might be some kind of knowledge test. If all you know is that some lady with blue hair knocked on your door and asked you to sign a ballot after she filled it out, telling you that if you signed it, you'd get more money from the government, maybe you shouldn't get to vote.

 

[jamil]

I've never EVER heard that argument. Scantron for the win.

I'm slightly uncomfortable with our new machines.* Yes they appear to be both human and machine readable. But unlike a scantron where the machine readable code is blatantly obvious, these use barcodes. How can I tell that my barcode above "Curasco" doesnt tell the computer "mears"? With the Scantron style bubbles its obvious because *I* shaded that bubble. There is no doubt what my vote is.

I'm only reassured that the wrong barcode is discoverable in a serious audit.

*poll worker inserts blank sheet into their machine that prints the header telling the vote machine what ballot to present on the screen and then they hand you your blank sheet. You insert the sheet into the machine, press the appropriate vote buttons, and after confirmation it prints your votes on the previously (mostly) blank sheet. You see your votes as well as the corresponding barcodes. You insert the freshly printed ballot into the tabulator which counts your votes.

I'd feel better if the code were open source. Scantrons are okay, but man, old people can't do it. Not that they can operate the touch screens either though. Except my elderly mother-in-law can operate an ipad. She could probably operate a voting machine. She just couldn't get to the polls because she's pretty old and frail. So she did an absentee ballot.

 

[smokingman]

‘Makes No Mathematical Sense’: Vote Tally Discrepancies in AZ Gov Vs. AZ Treasurer Races Suggest FRAUD, Say Pundits

GOP Candidate Kimberly Yee won AZ Treasurer race with 1.37million votes - how did AZ Gov candidate Kari Lake only get 1.25Mil?

www.newswars.com

 

[Tombs]

Nah. Let's go fully in that direction then. You don't think a person who is on welfare doesn't have skin in the game for who is the leader? If it's about skin in the game, maybe only rich people should vote because they make the lion's share of wealth, and consume the most government. I think the only valid case for restricting voting to classes of people might be some kind of knowledge test. If all you know is that some lady with blue hair knocked on your door and asked you to sign a ballot after she filled it out, telling you that if you signed it, you'd get more money from the government, maybe you shouldn't get to vote.

Welfare is the ultimate example of someone who shouldn't be voting. If you can vote to take more of someone else's money without contributing anything, then there's no reason not to take it all. It's anonymous so there's no consequences for your actions.

And when the system collapses because of it, the finger will just be pointed at the rich.

That's a pretty unique situation. Welfare exists as charity, if society no longer wishes to provide that charity, that is morally their choice. Those receiving charity shouldn't be able to hold everyone else hostage.