It might be worth it, after Trump leaves office, and a more even keeled person is in office, but as it stands now they are making decisions that are completely baffling. I can understand why a president would want to have some "yes men" around them, but when the entire group surrounding the president does nothing but reinforce his decisions, out of fear, the president doesn't get a chance to hear honest or legitimate criticisms.
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The [Current Year] General Political/Salma Hayek discussion thread, part 4!!!
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It might be worth it, after Trump leaves office, and a more even keeled person is in office, but as it stands now they are making decisions that are completely baffling. I can understand why a president would want to have some "yes men" around them, but when the entire group surrounding the president does nothing but reinforce his decisions, out of fear, the president doesn't get a chance to hear honest or legitimate criticisms.
I am inclined to agree with you but, and it's a large but, with the media playing only one side of the road it is very difficult to know what is actually happening. You can count on them to put forward only the worst possible picture. I've come to the conclusion that the vast majority of the people don't really want to hear the truth, only that narrative that reinforces what they already believe. If so, we are truly lost.
You may well be right. If nothing more that we are well on that road. Every conversation I try and have with "Those" folks always ends up with me getting screamed at. There is a baffling refusal to even consider anything beyond what ever rant they are on.
There are 20% hard core leftists and 20% hard core, well for lack of a more accurate term, conservatives. That forty percent can't be moved. There are twenty percent on either side that leans one particular way but doesn't completely buy in. They are capable of being moved but it would take a significant issue. The other twenty percent are able to be swayed and waffle back and forth. These numbers are, of course, open to debate.
I had the opposite happen recently. I had a week long discussion in the evenings with a young couple that are neighbors here. They were left leaning and voting but not rabid about it. We used the Political Funny Pictures thread as a source of discussion topics and then looked up the facts we could find on line. We went through topic after topic discussing merits of both sides and then the media side and how useless it is. They had been using the media as their only source of information. They are now right leaning and I believe will vote that way. The key was they had open minds. I am hoping they will talk to others and spread their new insight.
Of course. But such depth is unnecessary for the point. The point is that the two party system, especially because of the primary process, ensures that during times of social unrest, that the most extreme candidates will be selected. The people who are ultra-political tend to be the most radical, and the most motivated to vote in primaries. The radical Democrat in NY beat the less radical Democrat. Same thing happened in Alabama, where the radical, some would say racist, candidate beat the less radical one.
In the general elections, the sane non-radicals have two really horrible choices from which to choose. Sometimes, that causes them not to vote for either, even though one of those two horrible choices will win. Others end up choosing who they think is the lesser radical, or just along party lines, because they see that at least it's not radical in the other direction.
In 2016, I chose the Republican ****ty candidate over the Democrat ****ty candidate, because the nation has already shifted too far left. We're in too great a danger of ruining what's good about the US. It's time to throw the anchor overboard and stop this *****, even if it means an authoritarian prick runs things for awhile.
And it seems to be working. Trump really hasn't ****ed too many things up. Even did several good things. Best of all, I think it's possible to salvage individual liberty. Because of all the hyperbole from the opposition, some prominent sane people on the left have broken the spell, and they're seeing that enlightenment values are worth saving.
Yes, I see your point now and I agree with almost all of that. But who are the prominent sane people on the left? It seems the left has voted strictly as a block, as if one mind controlled the whole mess.
indiucky
Grandmaster
Unity is a silly thing to strive for. Diversity in human existence is too high to have one common goal specific enough to be practical. We might say we all have a common goal in the survival of everyone, but even then not everyone would agree on how best to do that.
Because of our diversity, I think the most common goal we can hope to seek is just to devise a way for diverse people to peacefully coexist to the extent possible. That means not even a majority of people gets to control just any old aspect of other people's lives that you disagree with. You have to conceded that you can't force people to do the thing that YOU think is moral. The most you should be able to control others is when there's a near consensus. For example, where nearly all people agree that something is wrong, it's pretty safe to make that the law.
It seems, especially in the past few years, most of the strife is caused by people who are pissed off because they can't control what other people think and do. The cleanest dichotomy of sides seems to be collective authority vs individual liberty.
Who are the prominent people on the left? I'd say the people in the so-called intellectual dark web. Don't expect them to start voting Republican though, especially when the right nominates bat **** crazy, racist candidates. They might vote for a right-leaning libertarianish candidate who comes off as sane though, if the alternative is a far left Socialist SJW insisting that we need to Abolish ICE. The point I'm making is that many people on the left support individual liberty, and they're starting to push back on the crazy people on the left. But, if the only candidates who can win primaries on the right are bat **** crazy racists, then we'll all continue to sort ourselves into the two current pigeon holes.
I could vote for a Democrat over a bat **** crazy Republican, if the democrat were sane and mot a ****ing Marxist. But I think they're having the same problem over there. The crazy activists tend to bother to vote in primaries. So they vote for crazy left wing ideologues.
Ranked order voting. Would allow us to vote for the people that most represent us. No more primaries. All parties put up their candidates in one election. Maybe give candidates 3 months or so to campaign. Vote. Tally. Top rank wins.
That tends to put a lot of responsibility on the voters to know what the hell they are doing. Frankly many of them are not capable of knowing that much or just not willing.
How do you think we ended up with Donnelly for six years?
Six years of nullifying nearly every singe Senate vote from the Indiana contingent.
Support one dem, you support them all. We should have learned from the last six years, but did we?
Support one uou support them all? That’s kinda silly.How do you think we ended up with Donnelly for six years?
Six years of nullifying nearly every singe Senate vote from the Indiana contingent.
Support one dem, you support them all. We should have learned from the last six years, but did we?
BTW, I voted for the bat **** crazy Republican over joe-joe the union ho.
Progressive Business Owner on Living Wage Law: ?The arithmetic doesn?t work? | Intellectual Takeout
Progressive Business Owner on Living Wage Law: ‘The arithmetic doesn’t work’
Progressive Business Owner on Living Wage Law: ‘The arithmetic doesn’t work’
An old friend posted this on FB with a comment about how sobering it is, another commented how much truth is in it. These are people that are slightly left of center on the political spectrum, but the article is from a far-left source. It is an interesting read, I found it quite fascinating how much the far-left sounds exactly like the far-right. The themes of political and corporate elites, biased media that supports the power structure, and the coming financial collapse run through the writings of both.
I don't know what to make of it. Do people end up at the extremes because of similar experiences or a shared common truth, or do people at the extremes inevitably have world views that are far more alike than their polar-opposite politics would seem to indicate?
"But the warnings from the architects of our failed democracy against creeping fascism, Madeleine Albright among them, are risible. They show how disconnected the elites have become from the zeitgeist. None of these elites have credibility. They built the edifice of lies, deceit and corporate pillage that made Trump possible. And the more Trump demeans these elites, and the more they cry out like Cassandras, the more he salvages his disastrous presidency and enables the kleptocrats pillaging the country as it swiftly disintegrates."
"The press is one of the principal pillars of Trump’s despotism. It chatters endlessly like 17th-century courtiers at the court of Versailles about the foibles of the monarch while the peasants lack bread. It drones on and on and on about empty topics such as Russian meddling and a payoff to a porn actress that have nothing to do with the daily hell that, for many, defines life in America. It refuses to critique or investigate the abuses by corporate power, which has destroyed our democracy and economy and orchestrated the largest transfer of wealth upward in American history. The corporate press is a decayed relic that, in exchange for money and access, committed cultural suicide. And when Trump attacks it over “fake news,” he expresses, once again, the deep hatred of all those the press ignores. The press worships the idol of Mammon as slavishly as Trump does. It loves the reality-show presidency. The press, especially the cable news shows, keeps the lights on and the cameras rolling so viewers will be glued to a 21st-century version of 'The Cabinet of Dr. Caligari.' It is good for ratings. It is good for profits. But it accelerates the decline."
"All this will soon be compounded by financial collapse. Wall Street banks have been handed $16 trillion in bailouts and other subsidies by the Federal Reserve and Congress at nearly zero percent interest since the 2008 financial collapse. They have used this money, as well as the money saved through the huge tax cuts imposed last year, to buy back their own stock, raising the compensation and bonuses of their managers and thrusting the society deeper into untenable debt peonage. Sheldon Adelson’s casino operations alone got a $670 million tax break under the 2017 legislation. The ratio of CEO to worker pay now averages 339 to 1, with the highest gap approaching 5,000 to 1. This circular use of money to make and hoard money is what Karl Marx called 'fictitious capital.' The steady increase in public debt, corporate debt, credit card debt and student loan debt will ultimately lead, as Nomi Prins writes, to 'a tipping point—when money coming in to furnish that debt, or available to borrow, simply won’t cover the interest payments. Then debt bubbles will pop, beginning with higher yielding bonds.'"
"An economy reliant on debt for its growth causes our interest rate to jump to 28 percent when we are late on a credit card payment. It is why our wages are stagnant or have declined in real terms—if we earned a sustainable income we would not have to borrow money to survive. It is why a university education, houses, medical bills and utilities cost so much. The system is designed so we can never free ourselves from debt."
https://www.commondreams.org/views/...&utm_medium=facebook&utm_source=socialnetwork
I don't know what to make of it. Do people end up at the extremes because of similar experiences or a shared common truth, or do people at the extremes inevitably have world views that are far more alike than their polar-opposite politics would seem to indicate?
"But the warnings from the architects of our failed democracy against creeping fascism, Madeleine Albright among them, are risible. They show how disconnected the elites have become from the zeitgeist. None of these elites have credibility. They built the edifice of lies, deceit and corporate pillage that made Trump possible. And the more Trump demeans these elites, and the more they cry out like Cassandras, the more he salvages his disastrous presidency and enables the kleptocrats pillaging the country as it swiftly disintegrates."
"The press is one of the principal pillars of Trump’s despotism. It chatters endlessly like 17th-century courtiers at the court of Versailles about the foibles of the monarch while the peasants lack bread. It drones on and on and on about empty topics such as Russian meddling and a payoff to a porn actress that have nothing to do with the daily hell that, for many, defines life in America. It refuses to critique or investigate the abuses by corporate power, which has destroyed our democracy and economy and orchestrated the largest transfer of wealth upward in American history. The corporate press is a decayed relic that, in exchange for money and access, committed cultural suicide. And when Trump attacks it over “fake news,” he expresses, once again, the deep hatred of all those the press ignores. The press worships the idol of Mammon as slavishly as Trump does. It loves the reality-show presidency. The press, especially the cable news shows, keeps the lights on and the cameras rolling so viewers will be glued to a 21st-century version of 'The Cabinet of Dr. Caligari.' It is good for ratings. It is good for profits. But it accelerates the decline."
"All this will soon be compounded by financial collapse. Wall Street banks have been handed $16 trillion in bailouts and other subsidies by the Federal Reserve and Congress at nearly zero percent interest since the 2008 financial collapse. They have used this money, as well as the money saved through the huge tax cuts imposed last year, to buy back their own stock, raising the compensation and bonuses of their managers and thrusting the society deeper into untenable debt peonage. Sheldon Adelson’s casino operations alone got a $670 million tax break under the 2017 legislation. The ratio of CEO to worker pay now averages 339 to 1, with the highest gap approaching 5,000 to 1. This circular use of money to make and hoard money is what Karl Marx called 'fictitious capital.' The steady increase in public debt, corporate debt, credit card debt and student loan debt will ultimately lead, as Nomi Prins writes, to 'a tipping point—when money coming in to furnish that debt, or available to borrow, simply won’t cover the interest payments. Then debt bubbles will pop, beginning with higher yielding bonds.'"
"An economy reliant on debt for its growth causes our interest rate to jump to 28 percent when we are late on a credit card payment. It is why our wages are stagnant or have declined in real terms—if we earned a sustainable income we would not have to borrow money to survive. It is why a university education, houses, medical bills and utilities cost so much. The system is designed so we can never free ourselves from debt."
https://www.commondreams.org/views/...&utm_medium=facebook&utm_source=socialnetwork
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