Russia vs. Ukraine Part 2

[Route 45]

Bet he can shoot and watch his 10.

Poor guy. I heard he went to Ukraine after his wife left him. Divorced him for seeing someone on the side.

 

[Wolfhound]

Giving them the missiles and aiming the missiles for them sounds pretty direct to me. Do you think the family of a dead sailor would buy that rationalization and tell you "nevermind, it's all good"?

This sounds a little like the Soviets giving the NVA surface to air missiles and even rumors of them manning them in the 60’s and 70’s. Shooting down American bombers and fighter bombers. Somehow a world war was not the end result.

 

[BigMoose]

The Ukranians committed the limited armor they have and are slamming headlong into the side of the stalled Russian advance near Karkiv.



And it's WORKING.. they pushed the Russians back some 40KM and are aiming right for that chokepoint on the roads at Kupiansk.

Meanwhile the Russians are forced to go into Mariupol's factory and tunnels and are getting in, but are paying for it badly.

The Ukranians continue to push at Kherson as well.

I never thought I would see the Russians beat -this- bad. If they cut the road there, they will have seriously crippled the Russians even more..

 

[DragonGunner]

This sounds a little like the Soviets giving the NVA surface to air missiles and even rumors of them manning them in the 60’s and 70’s. Shooting down American bombers and fighter bombers. Somehow a world war was not the end result.

Got a book by a Green Beret in Vietnam....he killed a Chinese officer in with the NVA, took his hat and some papers. I'm sure their was some Russian was involved also, but the Chinese sure were.....Nixon just looked the other way, but they all knew what was going on.

 

[BigMoose]

Hell yeah, keep feeding them the goodies from those birds in space..

The more Russia looses, the better for everyone in this world.

 

[BigMoose]

They -MAY- have got another one, this time a frigate. Many many unconfirmed reports that the Ukranians sunk or hit the frigate "Admiral Makarov"

https://twitter.com/search?q=Admiral%20Makarov&src=typed_query

 

[Wolfhound]

Got a book by a Green Beret in Vietnam....he killed a Chinese officer in with the NVA, took his hat and some papers. I'm sure their was some Russian was involved also, but the Chinese sure were.....Nixon just looked the other way, but they all knew what was going on.

The “official” number of Soviet casualties in Vietnam was 16. That’s what the Russians will admit to. I wonder what the actual number was…

 

[Hawkeye]

Giving them the missiles and aiming the missiles for them sounds pretty direct to me. Do you think the family of a dead sailor would buy that rationalization and tell you "nevermind, it's all good"?

Exactly when did we "aim the missiles for them? guess I missed the part about US troops in Ukraine aiming their weapons.

You don't like the West supplying weapons to Ukraine? So would you like better the West just standing by watching while Russia invades their neighbors?

 

[Ark]

They -MAY- have got another one, this time a frigate. Many many unconfirmed reports that the Ukranians sunk or hit the frigate "Admiral Makarov"

https://twitter.com/search?q=Admiral%20Makarov&src=typed_query

Looks like the prices on Makarovs are about to go up.

 

[Wolfhound]

I am seeing more news outlets with stories about the Admiral Makarov being hit. I would still take it as officially unconfirmed.

Huge Russian warship 'on fire after being hit by missile' in new blow for Putin

Vladimir Putin's new flagship the Admiral Makarov is one of only three of its class in Russia's Black Sea fleet and its sinking would be a blow to the bloodthirsty president shortly after Moscow lost the Moskva

www.mirror.co.uk

 

[Redhorse]

I am seeing more news outlets with stories about the Admiral Makarov being hit. I would still take it as officially unconfirmed.

Huge Russian warship 'on fire after being hit by missile' in new blow for Putin

Vladimir Putin's new flagship the Admiral Makarov is one of only three of its class in Russia's Black Sea fleet and its sinking would be a blow to the bloodthirsty president shortly after Moscow lost the Moskva

www.mirror.co.uk

If the Ukrainians sink another major Russian vessel that should give us some insight about anti-ship missile capabilities and how they could impact our future combat capabilities.

 

[Wolfhound]

Ukrainians fishing out a Russian Mi-28N helicopter. That should buff right out.

 

[jamil]

The united states are not one nation.

You may understand my point of sovereign states better than you know.

Each member state within the united states, under the constitution, is not a sovereign nation. Of course, prior to post-Civil War era, the states had more sovereignty than they do now. I do think states should be able to make their own laws within limits established by the federal government. Those limits should basically be that the states should be bound by the US constitution where applicable. So basically they're bound by incorporated parts of the US constitution. But that does not make Indiana its own sovereign nation. If you want that, you'll probably have to go buy your own island and start your own country.

 

[Wolfhound]

If the Ukrainians sink another major Russian vessel that should give us some insight about anti-ship missile capabilities and how they could impact our future combat capabilities.

I guarantee the Chinese are taking notes and learning everything they can.

 

[jamil]

No, it's really not. One nation invaded another, and is currently slaughtering its citizens and threatening the rest of the world with nuclear weapons. An invasion of a sovereign nation is a step beyond the usual political games and brinkmanship, nevermind the threats of nuclear war.

This isn't rocket science, but I suppose I can see the confusion in someone who's main concern is maintaining their own contrarian, conspiracy-minded ego.

No. It's not rocket science. But I have no interest in drawing any moral conclusion about a nation, like Russia bad, Ukraine good. I think both are both good and bad. Russia is a collection of individual citizens. Some are undoubtedly bad, some undoubtedly good. Ukraine is the same way. And so is the US and any other citizen collective of any nation.

Is what the leaders of Russia is doing bad? Yes. They have no just cause to invade another sovereign nation. Ukraine has every right to defend themselves against this unjust aggression.

That's all there is to it. It doesn't make Russia "bad". It doesn't make Ukraine "good".

So what that means for me, I support Ukraine's right to defend itself. Russia should GTFO, and pay reparations for the dammage they've caused. I guess I don't mind if we help Ukraine out with some resources to that end. No ****ing way should the US enter that war. No US forces involvement. Period. That's where I'm at.

 

[jamil]

Lincoln should never have been put on the penny.

Lincoln was good and Lincoln was bad. History is too kind because he brought about the end of slavery, but the depths to which he sunk to accomplish it, should also be part of the record.

 

[jamil]

Giving them the missiles and aiming the missiles for them sounds pretty direct to me. Do you think the family of a dead sailor would buy that rationalization and tell you "nevermind, it's all good"?

"Directly involved", to me, means US troops on the ground, pilots in the air, sailors on the sea, fighting Russians and their allies. We're not directly involved. Yet, And I hope we don't become directly involved. Some of this indirect involved is a bit too much for my sensibilities.

 

[nra4ever]

From the boots on the ground.

 

[Hawkeye]

If the Ukrainians sink another major Russian vessel that should give us some insight about anti-ship missile capabilities and how they could impact our future combat capabilities.

I'm not so sure that much new will be learned from this war about the impact of anti-ship missiles. USN has experience on the receiving side as does the RN. So I don't see much new coming out of this conflict.

 

[Wolfhound]

I'm not so sure that much new will be learned from this war about the impact of anti-ship missiles. USN has experience on the receiving side as does the RN. So I don't see much new coming out of this conflict.

I get your point but I think this conflict may be good intelligence on how to successfully attack ships from shore based batteries. Yes, the US has been on the receiving end of some Houthi missiles but they are hardly a professional fighting force let alone near peer OPFOR. I guess it is possible that the Russians simply suck at defending their warships from missiles no matter the launch platform.