Russia vs. Ukraine Part 2

[oze]

When it comes to conspiracy theories I consider the denial of the holocaust the most dangerous one.

Oh yeah, that's unbelievable.

 

[SEIndSAM]

 

[1DOWN4UP]

MoA - War In Ukraine - U.S. Creeping Towards Ever Deeper Involvement

 

[Libertarian01]

So according to this guy their squad is in Yehorivka, almost straight south of Pavilvka (another landmark mentioned). He and his squad are about 30 miles SW of Donetsk. This is territory Russia has had under control for some time, about Sept 2021 if I am guessing correctly. This is a main area of Russian activity and officially recognized as Ukrainian territory by everyone but Russia.

If you look at the map from the Institute for the Study of War, you will see hot spots of activity on their Nov 5th update here:

Institute for the Study of War

Wagner Group financier Yevgeny Prigozhin seeks to obfuscate his efforts to strengthen his independent power base with an appeal to the concept of Russia’s historic unity. Prigozhin provided a vague response to a media inquiry regarding his recent visit t

www.understandingwar.org

I am guessing this guy and his squad are in the little circle SW of the big circle around Donetsk. Each circle indicates heavy fighting.

I would surmise that he is either part of a feint designed to keep Russian forces split OR part of a real push to isolate Russian forces in Kherson from supply to the NE. Either way he and his guys are in a hell of a spot. It sounds like other Ukrainian forces are also in a small pocket near him, so I am thinking the Russians are trying to break through but cannot do it. The Ukrainians are like the American Lost Battalion in WWI, holding on against tremendous odds, isolated and surrounded but refusing to quit. They have even more reason to fight than the Americans in the Argonne - this is their land. The Union learned this lesson from the Confederacy much to their pain.

Regards,

Doug

 

[smokingman]

I remember when Ukraine was attacking this with normal artillery just weeks after Russia took it to restore the river and fresh water to Crimea(,the river was the main fresh water source for Crimea and Russia had brought fresh water by ship since 2014,plus power which they had to rebuild). Blowing the dam would kill the power,but the river would not be shut and diverted again without it.

I am going to say if Russia can hit infrastructure, what goes around comes around.

ZeroHedge

ZeroHedge - On a long enough timeline, the survival rate for everyone drops to zero

www.zerohedge.com

It is also the dam Ukraine has been claiming Russia was going to blow up.

The Kakhovka dam has for months been at the center of competing accusations and claims, with President Zelensky saying weeks ago that Russian troops are plotting a 'false flag' detonation of the large structure in order to trigger cataclysmic flooding.

Zelensky appealed to world powers to ensure the dam's safe operation by sending an international mission to protect and operate it, pointing out that if the dam burst it would case a "catastrophe on a grand scale".

"The dam of this hydroelectric power plant holds about 18 million cubic meters of water," he said in statements last month. "If Russian terrorists blow up this dam, more than 80 settlements, including Kherson, will be in the zone of rapid flooding. Hundreds, hundreds of thousands of people may be affected."

 

[Libertarian01]

I remember when Ukraine was attacking this with normal artillery just weeks after Russia took it to restore the river and fresh water to Crimea(,the river was the main fresh water source for Crimea and Russia had brought fresh water by ship since 2014,plus power which they had to rebuild). Blowing the dam would kill the power,but the river would not be shut and diverted again without it.

I am going to say if Russia can hit infrastructure, what goes around comes around.

ZeroHedge

ZeroHedge - On a long enough timeline, the survival rate for everyone drops to zero

www.zerohedge.com

It is also the dam Ukraine has been claiming Russia was going to blow up.

The Kakhovka dam has for months been at the center of competing accusations and claims, with President Zelensky saying weeks ago that Russian troops are plotting a 'false flag' detonation of the large structure in order to trigger cataclysmic flooding.

Zelensky appealed to world powers to ensure the dam's safe operation by sending an international mission to protect and operate it, pointing out that if the dam burst it would case a "catastrophe on a grand scale".

"The dam of this hydroelectric power plant holds about 18 million cubic meters of water," he said in statements last month. "If Russian terrorists blow up this dam, more than 80 settlements, including Kherson, will be in the zone of rapid flooding. Hundreds, hundreds of thousands of people may be affected."

Per Reuters the Russian claims have yet to be verified. Possible false flag announcement by the Russians.

Ukraine's Russian-held Nova Kakhovka dam damaged in shelling, Russian media report

Ukraine's Russian-held Nova Kakhovka dam was damaged in shelling by Ukrainian forces, Russian news agencies reported on Sunday, citing emergency services.

www.reuters.com

Regards,

Doug

 

[smokingman]

Per Reuters the Russian claims have yet to be verified. Possible false flag announcement by the Russians.

Ukraine's Russian-held Nova Kakhovka dam damaged in shelling, Russian media report

Ukraine's Russian-held Nova Kakhovka dam was damaged in shelling by Ukrainian forces, Russian news agencies reported on Sunday, citing emergency services.

www.reuters.com

Regards,

Doug

I do not understand what you mean by has not been verified. Even if it is only Ukraine admitting to shelling(vs MLRS),how is that a Russian false flag? *edit Never mind...i see what you are saying.

You are saying Russia shelled itself and their own troops(or at least implying it).

 

[Libertarian01]

I do not understand what you mean by has not been verified. Even if it is only Ukraine admitting to shelling(vs MLRS),how is that a Russian false flag? *edit Never mind...i see what you are saying.

You are saying Russia shelled itself and their own troops(or at least implying it).

Yes. The dam is Ukrainian. It is not Russian. The Ukrainians own it as it is within Ukrainian sovereign territory recognized by every nation on earth except the Russians and their few stooges. The Russians have temporarily taken it. By recent events the Ukrainians are likely to reclaim the stolen dam along with other territory.

When the Ukrainians retake the dam it could possibly be used to cross the river and press the route of Russian forces.

So what could the Russians possibly get out of a structure that provides power and income to their enemy along with a route of attack? Answer: destroy the thing and try to get what propaganda you can out of it. If it costs a few troops - oh well... Such are the sacrifices needed in war. Besides, they could simply be Wagner mercenaries recently released from prison, so all the better.

If the Russians are going to lose control of it soon, to their thinking they might as well get what they can out of it.

CAVEAT: This could be totally wrong! The problem is there is ZERO (0) evidence to back up the Russian claims, for which they have provided ZERO (0) proof! My only point is that the Russians have lied about much in this conflict. I see no reason to default to their claims without substantial proof. The Russians seem to keep throwing crap at the wall hoping some will stick. In Russia, it might. Outside of Russia? Not as likely.

To also consider that the HIMARS is accurate to within 10'. 50/50 hit chance within 2 - 3 meters. So if the Ukrainians had fired multiple missiles I would presume they would have hit exactly where they wanted and obliterated the dam.

Regards,

Doug

 

[Shadow01]

He also would not have stayed. On "Waging War" Rule #7) "For there has never been a protracted war from which a country has benefited." (This is always a rule that sticks out in my memory.)

He also firmly believed in the benefits of the state, not just his. Under "Offensive Strategy" the very 1st rule is, "Generally, in war the best policy is to take a state intact; to ruin it is inferior to this."

He goes on with rule #2, "To capture the enemy's army is better than to destroy it; to take intact a battalion, a company or a five-man squad is better than to destroy them."

#3) "For to win one hundred victories in one hundred battles is not the acme of skill. To subdue the enemy without fighting is the acme of skill." (We should have learned this before Vietnam.)

Afghanistan is entirely different from what I was referring to, and I stand by my thoughts. There was no "enemy" in Afghanistan. There were multiple hundreds of enemies. Multiple villages and multiple Imam Khatibs, multiple hundreds of warlords. Afghanistan has never really been a nation state but rather lots of villages and small territories willing to trade but always saying "Leave us the **** alone."

Afghanistan has earned the title "Graveyard of Empires" for a very good reason. To name just a few the Persians, Arabs, the Mongols, the British, the USSR all were pushed out. We suffered probably over 100,000 casualties by failing to grasp history. When I say casualties I don't mean deaths. There were only about 2,500 deaths. My understanding is we lost a bit over 40,000 arms, legs, eyes and other body parts. God knows how many suffer from PTSD and other psychological and spiritual wounds? We know thousands were wounded due to concussion by roadside IED's, but that brain damage has never been counted. We will have men and women, and the children of some of those men and women, who will suffer for decades to come. May God comfort them all.

Regards,

Doug

I see 2 issues in Afghanistan. 1 We chose to recognize borders. 2 We chose to leave enemy survivors.

 

[SEIndSAM]

 

[SEIndSAM]

M-16...

 

[nra4ever]

Rumor is British sub has sunk.

 

[BugI02]

Rumor is British sub has sunk.

'has' or 'was'?

 

[nra4ever]

'has' or 'was'?

Depends which side you believe. Some say it was a fire onboard other side says the Russians sank it when it strayed into their waters. Skyking and Emergency action messages both active.

 

[oze]

I haven't vetted the source, but:

Clam Reports

Clam Reports is a dedicated team of international reporters, journalists, and developers. We translate and compile local news sources from various languages into comprehensive English reports, delivering accurate and swift information to our users.

www.tellerreport.com

 

[actaeon277]

I haven't vetted the source, but:

Clam Reports

Clam Reports is a dedicated team of international reporters, journalists, and developers. We translate and compile local news sources from various languages into comprehensive English reports, delivering accurate and swift information to our users.

www.tellerreport.com

Blah Blah Blah

EVERY sub mission is secret.



But if it's carrying IBMs, it is NOT engaged in some secret spy stuff.
You don't put IBMs into situations like that.

 

[nra4ever]

Looks like he left off his unlimited cocaine.

 

[Libertarian01]

Blah Blah Blah

EVERY sub mission is secret.



But if it's carrying IBMs, it is NOT engaged in some secret spy stuff.
You don't put IBMs into situations like that.

But it makes such a wonderful story...

Besides, we all just know that if it is from main stream media it must be a lie, and if it's not from MSM it must be true, right? Of course, the opposite is true if you sit on the other side of the fence.

I heard from my sister's husband's cousin's wife's gay hair dresser's partner that they were secretly testing an alien beam weapon underwater, and that's what "accidentally" damaged the underwater pipeline. The story is they were trying to take out Prigozhin but got the angles wrong. oops...

Regards,

Doug

 

[SEIndSAM]

 

[rhamersley]

But it makes such a wonderful story...

Besides, we all just know that if it is from main stream media it must be a lie, and if it's not from MSM it must be true, right? Of course, the opposite is true if you sit on the other side of the fence.

I heard from my sister's husband's cousin's wife's gay hair dresser's partner that they were secretly testing an alien beam weapon underwater, and that's what "accidentally" damaged the underwater pipeline. The story is they were trying to take out Prigozhin but got the angles wrong. oops...

Regards,

Doug

Well, it IS from the Sun, after all...